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Apple TV & Zwift

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Apple TV & Zwift

Old 12-15-17, 05:57 AM
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RShantz
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Apple TV & Zwift

Obviously from this question, I'm not a techie.


I use Zwift a fair amount during the winter. I normally carry my laptop into the room where I've got the trainer set up. I read that Apple TV is compatible with Zwift.


Does this mean that a monitor with Apple TV connected to the monitor would wirelessly communicate with my Kickr. Thus eliminating the need to use the laptop.


Thanks for any guidance.
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Old 12-15-17, 07:54 AM
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Yes, it’s great, in that it simplifies getting a ride going; no more computer, cables, dongles, and all that! Just install the Zwift app on AppleTV, and the AppleTV will link up with your sensors.

I do have the problem, though, that a warning pops up to say that I run out of connections when pairing KICKR, Wahoo Cadence sensor, and 4iiii Viiiiva HR strap. It seems that KICKR eats up 2 connections, one for power and one for Controllable, and HR takes the third and final connection. Cadence cannot connect, and the system asks if I want to connect through my iPhone (I believe for all sensors, but I forget).

Anyway, it seems for now, just ignoring cadence hookup (and connecting the rest through ATV), that while RPM is not displayed on Zwift, it does show up in the Strava upload, so I’ve not futzed with it too much to figure out what is going on.

In the pairing menu, the first step is to pair a smart trainer (or is it power? I forget how its labeled) or a classic, so you can’t avoid that connection. After that is made, three more options— for HR, Cadence, and Controlled— pop up, but if you try to make all of them, that warning prompt comes up, so it seems like ATV is doomed to be short a standard connection for smart trainers.

I’ve tried disconnecting Controllled and connecting Cadence, and while it does put up RPM on screen, resistance is no longer controlled by Zwift. RPM is not a biggie for me, so I’ve just left if disconnected.

Yet, as I said, when a ride is uploaded to Strava, RPM data is there, so I presume it’s being transmitted (or calculated) by KICKR.

I need to get this figured out!
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Old 12-15-17, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Cadence cannot connect, and the system asks if I want to connect through my iPhone (I believe for all sensors, but I forget).

Yet, as I said, when a ride is uploaded to Strava, RPM data is there, so I presume it’s being transmitted (or calculated) by KICKR.

I need to get this figured out!
Interesting rundown.. Are you using your iphone to collect rpms for Strava? I wonder how accurate trainer-calculated RPMs would be if it's even possible? I assume trainer knows the speed and power, but how would trainer know if you're accomplishing this combo using a 60 or 100 rpm cadence?
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Old 12-15-17, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Interesting rundown.. Are you using your iphone to collect rpms for Strava? I wonder how accurate trainer-calculated RPMs would be if it's even possible? I assume trainer knows the speed and power, but how would trainer know if you're accomplishing this combo using a 60 or 100 rpm cadence?
I don’t think my iPhone is involved, no. I did try to use it, as prompted, to address the connection max issue, but a) something wasn’t working quite right, and b) it involved a few extra steps which ruined the brilliant simplicity of the ATV setup. Honestly, I’d rather screw with real HDMI and USB cables than chase over the air connections, if that was the choice.

I presume KICKR can calculate cadence in the same way that Powertap hubs do, which is by monitoring torque pulses. Kurts InRide system does similar, but by monitoring speed pulses, I believe.

I can’t understand, however, where the cadence data channel is going in Zwift that it doesn’t display in game, but is uploaded to Strava as RPM info post-ride. Clearly Zwift has it and knows what it is, so why doesn’t the game display it?
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Old 12-15-17, 12:48 PM
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If you already have an Apple TV, then it may get you zwifting zwifter.

If you don't already have an Apple TV, I'd prefer just getting a cheap laptop for the trainer. I got an I5 (edit: maybe i3?) for $279, but there was an AMD one for $199.

fwiw, I also bought a 42" HD TV for my kickr, just because I wanted my kickr to be an enticing as possible so I may actually use it from time to time. Walmart has a 40" Sceptre? brand for $179.

I really just dont want ANY hassle... I barely have the initiative to do the workout even if its all set up waiting for me lol

Last edited by nycphotography; 12-15-17 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 12-15-17, 01:02 PM
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So if you go over to Zwiftblog, their latest discusses these Apple TV problems.

https://zwiftblog.com/zwift-for-apple-tv-picks-up-pace/

Keith
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Old 12-15-17, 03:00 PM
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Thanks guys. Helps a lot.
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Old 12-15-17, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
I presume KICKR can calculate cadence in the same way that Powertap hubs do, which is by monitoring torque pulses. Kurts InRide system does similar, but by monitoring speed pulses, I believe.
My KICKR came w/ a bluetooth/ant cadence pod that zip ties to your left crank arm.

I initially used it w/ my old cx bike on the KICKR, but eventually moved to using my outdoor bike on the KICKR... because I found that having the QUARQ/Garmin to compare to the KICKR/Zwift told me when it was time for a KICKR spindown/Quarq recalibration.

Also, the kickr takes 8-10 min to warm up. dont do the spindown cold, because it won't be accurate. That warmup time Zwift builds into the workouts? It's not for me... it's for my KICKR lol.
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Old 12-15-17, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by nycphotography View Post
My KICKR came w/ a bluetooth/ant cadence pod that zip ties to your left crank arm.

I initially used it w/ my old cx bike on the KICKR, but eventually moved to using my outdoor bike on the KICKR... because I found that having the QUARQ/Garmin to compare to the KICKR/Zwift told me when it was time for a KICKR spindown/Quarq recalibration.

Also, the kickr takes 8-10 min to warm up. dont do the spindown cold, because it won't be accurate. That warmup time Zwift builds into the workouts? It's not for me... it's for my KICKR lol.
Yes, mine came with the Wahoo Cadence as well, but the whole, entire point of my post was that it’s not connected (because of the 3 BTLE connection max of ATV) and RPMs are not displayed in game, yet cadence is appearing when I upload a Zwift ride to Strava. Where is that info coming from?

I was speculating that KICKR might transmit a calculated RPM stream, but aside from the theory’s problems with explaining how that data can be present but not displayed, I checked Wahoo support pages and it seems KICKR does not transmit cadence.

So the question is still open as to how Strava gets cadence info from Zwift when Zwift neither has a paired cadence sensor nor displays cadence in game. Is Strava inventing it?
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Old 12-15-17, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by nycphotography View Post
My KICKR came w/ a bluetooth/ant cadence pod that zip ties to your left crank arm.

I initially used it w/ my old cx bike on the KICKR, but eventually moved to using my outdoor bike on the KICKR... because I found that having the QUARQ/Garmin to compare to the KICKR/Zwift told me when it was time for a KICKR spindown/Quarq recalibration.

Also, the kickr takes 8-10 min to warm up. dont do the spindown cold, because it won't be accurate. That warmup time Zwift builds into the workouts? It's not for me... it's for my KICKR lol.
Do you do the spindown while still riding in Zwift? Again, I'm clearly not a techie. I only know how to do a spindown with the KICKR disconnected from Zwift.

If I try to perform a spindown (via the Wahoo app) while riding on Zwift, the Wahoo app essentially locks up. I then have to completely shut down Zwift, do a spindown and then restart Zwift.
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Old 12-16-17, 06:21 AM
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AppleTV only supports 3 Bluetooth connections and one is used by the remote. So, only two left for trainer power, heart rate and cadence. If you have a trainer that uses one connection for power and cadence you are OK but many don't do that.

Two ways around it: (1) you can actually use old Apple TV infrared remotes on the new AppleTV, google it.
(2) Pair your devices with your Android or Apple phone running the Zwift mobile device. Info here.

Hope that helps, John P.
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Old 12-16-17, 06:27 AM
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Everything works great!...with a Tacx Neo
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Old 12-16-17, 08:58 AM
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I do a Kickr spindown with the Wahoo Utility App before I log onto Zwift. Generally in a very easy gear up until about a minute before the spindown where I crank the RPMs up. The nice thing is, unless you move the Kickr, it only needs to be done every so often, not before every session.

Keith
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Old 12-16-17, 04:05 PM
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So, since I was using a 4iiii Viiiiva HR strap which can translate and port ANT+ over to Bluetooth, I decided to connect the Wahoo Cadence snsor to it, and connect the Viiiva as the cadence sensor in Zwift. The Viiiiva, then, transmits both HR and cadence to ATV, and now it all works as I hoped!

I guess ATV sees Viiiiva as just one connection, albeit with two channels of data (hr and rpm).
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Old 12-16-17, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by RShantz View Post
Do you do the spindown while still riding in Zwift? Again, I'm clearly not a techie. I only know how to do a spindown with the KICKR disconnected from Zwift.

If I try to perform a spindown (via the Wahoo app) while riding on Zwift, the Wahoo app essentially locks up. I then have to completely shut down Zwift, do a spindown and then restart Zwift.
You're dead on.

Exit your ride. Use Wahoo app to spindown. Restart your ride, I think as a new ride.

This really irritates me. I mean how hard would it be for Zwift to have a "pause and disconnect all sensors for a moment" button????
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Old 12-16-17, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by trainsktg View Post
I do a Kickr spindown with the Wahoo Utility App before I log onto Zwift. Generally in a very easy gear up until about a minute before the spindown where I crank the RPMs up. The nice thing is, unless you move the Kickr, it only needs to be done every so often, not before every session.

Keith
IF your kickr is not yet warmed up, THEN the spindown will probably not be accurate.

Trial and error tells me it HAS to be warmed up for the spindown to end up tracking my other power meters.
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Old 12-16-17, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by nycphotography View Post
IF your kickr is not yet warmed up, THEN the spindown will probably not be accurate.

Trial and error tells me it HAS to be warmed up for the spindown to end up tracking my other power meters.
I wonder why Wahoo don't mention warming it up in the spindown protocol at all. Doesn't seem like electronic resistance should be temp variable.

EDIT: I looked on the Wahoo support pages, read the spindown directions and watched a spindown video and saw no mention of warm up. Using the Wahoo Utility app for spindown there is no prompt for warmup. I’d never used the Wahoo Fitness app, but I installed it because it was mentioned in the aforementioned vid, and there it has instruction to warm up for 10min!

Last edited by chaadster; 12-16-17 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 12-16-17, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by nycphotography View Post
IF your kickr is not yet warmed up, THEN the spindown will probably not be accurate.

Trial and error tells me it HAS to be warmed up for the spindown to end up tracking my other power meters.
Yes, the spindown procedure is ten minutes of warmup followed by the actual spindown.

KEITH
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Old 12-17-17, 08:00 AM
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That’s another reason why I bought the Neo...no need to warm up the machine and calibrate. I don’t get a chance to ride much, sometimes my rides are only 30 minutes at all, don’t want to spend 10 just warming up the machine!
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Old 12-17-17, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Silvercivic27 View Post
That’s another reason why I bought the Neo...no need to warm up the machine and calibrate. I don’t get a chance to ride much, sometimes my rides are only 30 minutes at all, don’t want to spend 10 just warming up the machine!
Tell the truth: you bought it because the Neo looks sweet.
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