kbarch

You guys are completely missing the point: when people lack a skill or the ability to do something, they need training if they want to be able to do it, and they need more training if they want to do it better.

The advantage of rollers is that they enable one to develop skill and technique in balance and control. Sure, such skills can just as readily be developed on normal rides, but we're usually focusing on other things when we're out, and such skills cannot be developed on a stationary bike. It just so happens that the ability to move around doing things with ones hands other than holding the bars while riding requires engagement of the core in ways that aren't otherwise required. It's mostly a matter of neuro-muscular knowledge rather than strength, so no, it doesn't evaporate over the winter.

If all you want to do is ride time trials and drope the hamer, then no, you don't need much in the way of bike handling skills beyond what you learned in your first couple of days' riding. But many want more out of cycling than massive guads. And sure, if you are already as smooth and confident as you want to be when giving a struggling riding mate a push up a hill, or using both hands to get your jacket zipped up, or whatever else you might want or need to do when riding a bike besides grasp your handlebars and pedal, then you don't need the training. That doesn't mean others won't find it worthwhile.

banerjek

I don't know if there's any physical benefit, but there's certainly a mental benefit to being comfortable riding in anything. And has already been pointed out, riding outside is certainly more fun.

Having said that, indoor riding doesn't have to suck. I don't use my trainer anymore, but for years I loved riding those old Spinervals DVDs

cj19

Now that we've had the kinesiology debate (whew) let's go back to the OP's question, which was titled "training outdoors in the winter". From a pure fitness standpoint, I agree with those who have said that you don't gain anything in fitness by riding outdoors in extremely cold weather. And a pretty good argument has been made that since you can control the environment (temp, time, effort level, etc) much better indoors, you're probably better off riding indoors over the winter. So why not just take that argument to the logical extreme...if fitness is your only goal, why ride outside at all? You could just ride inside and 1) save time figuring out how to dress, 2) save money by using someone else's equipment instead of your own, and not have bike maintenance, 3) ride in a more safe environment, 4) escape the aggravation of riding with others who have different goals, and 5) and 6) and 7) and whatever...get the point? If all you care about is fitness, there's a million reasons to never ride outside. But there reasons to ride outside, even year-round, include that it's fun and it's liberating and you get to see things at a pace unlike riding in a car or walking and maybe you make a new friend or two or see a part of your community you haven't seen before.
If your fitness is more important to you than those things, then by all means stay indoors and be OK with that decision. But I say if you can take a little layering up and a bit of discomfort, take a ride when it's 30 deg and see the world in a different light. Your fitness might decrease just a little bit vs indoor training but I think what you gain is so much more. Each of us has our limit to how cold we will ride (mine is 20 deg F) but some of my favorite rides have been right near the limit and once you find your own limit you'll have answered your question.

mcours2006

There may very well be more benefit to riding indoors than outdoors from a fitness/training perspective. You control all the variables. But from a enjoyment perspective there's no comparison. Sure, you don't ride as fast and as hard, and bundling up kind of sucks, and it's difficult to breathe, you have to watch out for those icy patches, and sometimes riding on studded tires sucks too, and drivers don't expect you there...what was my point again?

rubiksoval

So all these people are going to go ride and start taking off and putting on their clothes?

I don't even know how you got on rollers, as rollers are indoor riding, too. So you're way off the discussion at hand in the first place.

But no, riding rollers doesn't do a thing for group riding skills or cornering or avoiding obstacles or anything actually relevant to bike handling skills. Because all you do on rollers is ride in a straight line. I doubt anyone is going to get a pair of rollers and start riding them in order to practice taking their hands off the bars or putting on a jacket or something. You don't sit up in the middle of a pack and do that either, of course.

rubiksoval

Because...specificity.

Though there have been a couple of three high-profile cases of pro/elite athletes doing almost exclusive indoor training before great outdoor success.

Seattle Forrest

I agree with everyone else. There can be more value-per-minute indoors on a trainer if you're putting in the effort on a structured plan. But there's more fun value to riding outside. Being outdoors has benefits for your mental health, sense of well-being, stuff like that, vitamin D if the weather allows, and it's good to be in touch with the seasons.

It was a balmy 33F the whole I was out today. Last week it got down to -9F during a night ski. But it's good cross training. And fun.trail today:

kbarch

What did rollers ever do to you that you hate them so much?

Being able to use both hands to zip up ones jacket while riding and give a riding mate a push up a hill isn't about doing tricks, it's about balance, confidence and control, and that's where rollers provide an opportunity that stationary bikes can't, and where riding on the road doesn't unless something upsets our ride or we purposefully attempt such "tricks." Yes, 99% of the time we spend on our bikes we don't need to worry about balance and maintaining control, but many of us could use training to be able to handle that other 1% (or more if we like) as confidently and naturally as riding a straight line in the drops.

Meanwhile, I figure riding CX or MTB trails is another way of training for that other 1% of road riding circumstances. Others have sufficiently explained the advantages of riding outdoors in the winter generally. In my case, I figured any ride I might do today, when it's windy and 10 F out would be short and modest, so it wouldn't be good for anything but Rule #9 credentials maintenance, so I'm skipping it; I rode in the snow two days ago.

So, as far as the discussion at hand goes, I don't think I'm saying anything that others haven't said: depending on what one values or wants to work on, the kind of riding one does - inside or out - makes a difference in whether it's worthwhile or not.

rubiksoval

Ive ridden rollers exclusively the last three winters. I have nothing against them at all.

I just think the arguments about balance and handling and core and whatever else that get tossed around for using rollers are totally silly and untrue, though. They just make no sense whatsoever.

You don't get handling skills or work your core or smooth you pedal stroke (whatever the point of that is in the first place) by riding in a straight line.

kbarch

I agree; actually riding in a straight line won't do anything for your skills, but the more awkward ones pedal stroke and worse ones handling skills are, the more trouble one will have keeping it straight, and rollers are unforgiving. Some people can use training in this respect, but I guess you don't need it. So why do you ride rollers? I suppose that their being more compact and economical than a stationary bike is as good a reason as any to choose them....

rubiksoval

I don't know really what you're talking about. If the person you're alluding to is actually that bad at riding, then I'd wager quite a bit that they'd never even consider rollers. And probably have never even heard of rollers. Besides, that's not even training. That's just learning how not to fall off. Again, a child's play type of thing and outside the scope of discussion.

I've used rollers because I rode outside whenever possible and liked just grabbing my bike and either hopping on the rollers and riding within 10 secs or getting out the door. Dealing with skewers and wheels and all that was a massive pain. I think that's their biggest plus if you only have one bike and like to move from inside and outside a lot. Not so good for actual fitness gains, though, unless you have resistance. And definitely not so good for Zwift, as watching your avatar take turns can cause you to roll right off.

But this winter I have a smart trainer and a bike that stays on it, so the rollers are in the closet.

kbarch

I didn't think the scope of discussion was limited to what kind of training experts want or need.

Since you are a very accomplished racer, maybe you've forgotten how much you've learned; or maybe you're just a "natural?" In any event, you do know there are riders who ride hundreds of miles a month who don't have any more balance or coordination than it takes to get rolling down the road - they really haven't learned very well how to not fall off, you might say. You are right; many would never consider rollers. They even express a fear of them because, indeed, they know they really haven't learned how to not fall off a bike; they are just competent enough to get by. But maybe some want to learn more - to be able to do things and deal with situations that would otherwise cause them to lose their balance - so I think the opportunity is worth pointing out. It may not be the kind of "training" people talk about often here (like strength and endurance training), but it is something one can learn and work on, and training in that sense. Having suffered a couple of broken shoulders, there's nothing I'd like to be better at than not falling off.

By way of analogy, having worked in my profession for over 25 years, there are times when I'll see younger colleagues, with say 3-4 years' experience, struggling with that I think is "child's play," but I'd never say that learning such things is outside the scope of discussion about what kind of training someone else might need - they may not be novices, but that doesn't mean everything that's easy and automatic for old hands should be for them as well.

TexMac

Riding in cold might feel harder because your veins are constricted due to cold plus layering makes you a bit heavier but I LOVE IT. Did 2 hrs yesterday and some intervals which felt much easier in the cold. I also have a mild plantar fasciitis so the cold helps numb the pain

RPK79

I'll take my training gains indoors over any of your outdoor maintenance cycling any day (of the winter).

fietsbob

Getting your Arse off the couch, is Good for You..

Drew Eckhardt 

You won't die of boredom like riding inside, and can probably put in a lot more time to maintain your fitness.

Alligator

I just finished a short ride the other day in -5 degree (F) weather. I was the slowest I've ever been, partly because I was riding on snow with studded tires. Man was it hard. I couldn't breathe, and my face mask kept freezing up from my breath. Other than being able to say I was outside, I don't think there was any physical benefit to my body. But it was a blast, and I'd do it again in a second!

Elvir

I find it beneficial. the cold weather provides multiple obstacles. From harsher weather conditions, overcoming cold factor is a mental thing. If you get good at it, to me you will be able to overcome other mental obstacles in prime season. Everything about winter makes you slower, so pushing hard, and still getting PRs is a sure way to maintain a base-line or even a higher fitness level than what you would expect at the start of a ride/race season.


Only issue I have is, I am not very comfortable in some areas about riding in dark, so I ride next to my work to save time. Luckily for me, its a very bike friendly place, so drivers are cautious. It is also very hilly. I seem to get more fit and faster up hills in winter time.

kbarch

Training outdoors during winter makes one better at riding in the cold. I know that sounds silly, but expanding ones comfort zone is a real benefit. If you've become accustomed to riding in freezing and colder weather, riding in 40-50 degree weather is a delight and you'll be happy to ride all day, whereas if you wait for 60 degree weather to start and a cool spell sets in, you'll be miserable.

Voodoo76

This. The only meaningful skill that can slip when you move indoors, but a ride or two is all it takes to gain it back. And it's not just holding a line. So if you are solo outside you really aren't practicing a meaningful skill (or at least one that impacts other riders), IMO.

Out of necessity the last two years I've moved a lot of training inside year round (Kickr, Zwift). My schedule makes daylight a bigger obstacle than weather . And not just cold, it can be tough to do VO2 work when it's 105 out and the sun is burning a hole through your helmet. With the right setup (primarily enough fans ) I believe intervals, even tempo, indoors are at least equal to if not superior to outdoors. There are some skills to be gained as well (and I've been at this for 4 decades). My power delivery is noticeably smoother outside when I want it to be. Focus and RPE are a little more refined when I need them, I'm a bit better at sitting on a number.

hubcyclist

I used to ride outside as much as I could, even in winter, but over the past year, even in summer, ive trained indoors. Firstly, from a power perspective, I find indoor training way more effective, I'm not so good at doing outdoor stuff at prescribed wattages. im also no master bike handler but I did my first season of cyclocross, which presumably requires good skills, and did just fine with no real prior training (I could stand to practice more for next season to speed up but I kept upright for nearly all my races). With the cold and snow, I can't really envision having to take the time to dress warmly enough and then clean my bike when I can jump on the smart trainer and get in quality work. I can work outside when spring comes

aplcr0331

Define "training".


OP says TRAINING outdoors, not "riding". There's a difference. What is your goal for your training, whether it's outside or inside, what's the end state you want to be at?


I believe once the OP actually answers this question then we can provide more well informed and focused answers.

dmanthree

i'm finding the opposite. When it's really cold out I tend to take shorter rides outdoors because, well, I'm freezing. So with Zwift I ride longer. No question you'll burn more calories in cold weather, but I'm not sure it's worth it. And I prefer riding outdoors, as well.

Tape2012

Hats off to those who enjoy riding in the winter, if you consider that fun and motivating that's all the reason you need to do it! When I lived in Michigan I used to ride my mtn bike to the Y (10mi round trip) just because I thought it was silly to drive 5 mi to the Y to work out, why not make the commute part of the workout? There is a certain rush to being out in the cold air, trying to recover from fishtailing on patches of ice, ploughing through drifts, etc. that you don't get in the summer. I never did extended distances with any significant snow on the ground though.

Side story: I developed this philosophy on an extended business trip and staying in a hotel. One of my coworkers would ride the elevator up just one floor to get to the fitness center. What's worse is that when I did see him in the fitness center he was often on the stair machine. I finally confronted him one night while we were all in the hotel bar after a few drinks and he started talking about his workout regimen and I said "Then dude, why do you take the elevator one stinking floor just to get to the stair machine??" He turned red and the whole group teased him mercilessly (in a friendly manner) for the rest of the trip. After that I couldn't get caught riding the elevator in workout clothes and it just became a habit after that.