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Your opinion wheels comfort

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Your opinion wheels comfort

Old 01-06-18, 04:03 AM
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SDF15
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Your opinion wheels comfort

Ok i have to make up my mind on a set of new (used) wheelset and I need your opinion

What is more comfortable between a 1.) Aluminum low profile clincher like ksyrium sl / dura ace c24 l

2.) Carbon deep 50mm tubular ( full carbon) zipp/ corima like

Note: this is a ride comfort only topic
All being equal (pressure, tire width etc etc)
road : mostly flat, rough, mixed weather, no sidewind

Thanks in advance for you input

Last edited by SDF15; 01-06-18 at 05:26 AM.
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Old 01-06-18, 06:10 AM
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Probably the low profile Al. Assuming they are the same width.
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Old 01-06-18, 06:42 AM
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No Question, the Aluminum clinchers
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Old 01-06-18, 06:53 AM
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I imagine it depends on what sort of "comfort" you expect wheels to provide. Rim properties will make a difference in rim brake performance, weight and and aerodynamics (with which you may be more or less comfortable) but except as they relate to the tires they hold, I don't think they make a difference when it comes to notions of comfort such as vibration damping or ride smoothness. I may be wrong about that; however, tires are another matter, and many prefer tubulars for ride feel, but many others are more 'comfortable' knowing that it's easier to repair a flat with clinchers.
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Old 01-06-18, 07:26 AM
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Thanks for the replies the reason i ask is to know if the comfort that tubulars provide over clinchers is cancelled by deep rim carbon profiles or not. And yes by comfort i mean vibration dampening and ride smoothness.
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Old 01-06-18, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SDF15 View Post
Thanks for the replies the reason i ask is to know if the comfort that tubulars provide over clinchers is cancelled by deep rim carbon profiles or not. And yes by comfort i mean vibration dampening and ride smoothness.
Tyre attributes a lot more than the rim (about 99.9%), so it boils down to tyres used.
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Old 01-06-18, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
Tyre attributes a lot more than the rim (about 99.9%), so it boils down to tyres used.
+1 ....

if you are looking at getting new wheels, look for tubless ready rims .... get decent tubeless tyres and you can run them softer than tubed .... and it is a lot more comfortable for longer distance (I had a wheelset built by my LBS .... best upgrade that I have ever done)
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Old 01-06-18, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by dim View Post
+1 ....

if you are looking at getting new wheels, look for tubless ready rims .... get decent tubeless tyres and you can run them softer than tubed .... and it is a lot more comfortable for longer distance (I had a wheelset built by my LBS .... best upgrade that I have ever done)
Or just don't bother with tubeless and sealant, and get a one size wider tyres.
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Old 01-06-18, 10:05 AM
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Tubular more comfortable, no doubt.
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Old 01-06-18, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by SDF15 View Post
Ok i have to make up my mind on a set of new (used) wheelset and I need your opinion

What is more comfortable between a 1.) Aluminum low profile clincher like ksyrium sl / dura ace c24 l

2.) Carbon deep 50mm tubular ( full carbon) zipp/ corima like

Note: this is a ride comfort only topic
All being equal (pressure, tire width etc etc)
road : mostly flat, rough, mixed weather, no sidewind

Thanks in advance for you input
What is your experience with tubulars? If little to none, you will be more satisfied with option 1. Use a 25 or 28 wide tire, low PSI.
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Old 01-06-18, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by cycledogg View Post
What is your experience with tubulars? If little to none, you will be more satisfied with option 1. Use a 25 or 28 wide tire, low PSI.
..... i love tubulars, but have no experience with deep 50mm carbon rims ....some say they are harsh
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Old 01-06-18, 10:25 AM
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You need to question the tires and tire pressure, not the wheels.

I wouldn't train on tubulars.
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Old 01-06-18, 10:25 AM
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Lightweight MEILENSTEIN.
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Old 01-06-18, 12:29 PM
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I have so many wheelsets that I've lost count. I detect no difference in the 'comfort' between any of the wheels. Tires and tire inflation pressure are all that matters.

Tubulars: I own multiple wheels in carbon and alu with different rim profiles. Unlike clinchers, tubulars won't pinch flat at low inflation pressures. And the tubular rim is isolated from inflation pressure/stresses, so you can inflate tubular tires to very high pressures - if you so choose.

Ride comfort: I regularly ride 22mm tubulars inflated to 80psi over long stretches of packed gravel. You cannot do this with clinchers, due to the risk of pinch flats.

This is where tubulars may feel more comfortable. Otherwise, I cannot tell a difference between clincher and tubular tires of equivalent construction.
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Old 01-06-18, 01:46 PM
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Between two PROPERLY tensioned and built wheelsets, the differences in vertical deflection/compliance between any given wheels is approximately the thickness of a single sheet of paper. Any more, and the wheel risks spoke failure.

Any comfort differences are either due to tires, or merely perception based on acoustic feedback from the wheelset.

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Old 01-06-18, 02:08 PM
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Im sure someone already said it, but, get fatter tyres if possible.
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Old 01-07-18, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
Or just don't bother with tubeless and sealant, and get a one size wider tyres.
and still have to stop everytime you get a puncture and still have to carry spare inner tubes on rides?

I doubt that I will ever go back to clinchers .... I ride lots of miles on crappy roads .... in the past 3 months I've had 3 punctures, and the liquid latex has always done the magic .... all punctures self sealed ... no need to stop in the very rain and change a tube

plus ..... there are some very fast durable tubeless tyres on the market at present and more new tubeless tyres are being developed (thats why many new top end bikes are now being sold with tubeless ready rims (check the new Giant bikes) ... the fastest tyre (tested by bicycle rolling resistance website) is a tubeless tyre

you would be a fool to have a wheelset built now that is not tubeless ready (I have HED Belgium Plus rims, laced to Chris King R45 hubs (the ceramic bearing upgrade) and Sapim Cx Ray spokes .... I can use both tubeless tyres aswell as clinchers

and BTW, my gut feel says tubulars are on the way out now ...
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Old 01-07-18, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dim View Post

you would be a fool to have a wheelset built now that is not tubeless ready (I have HED Belgium Plus rims, laced to Chris King R45 hubs (the ceramic bearing upgrade) and Sapim Cx Ray spokes .... I can use both tubeless tyres aswell as clinchers

and BTW, my gut feel says tubulars are on the way out now ...
Some say you would be a fool to waste your money on CX Ray spokes on an ordinary road bike.

Also, I think tubeless are pretty much "out" already - haven't been typical, even for "advanced enthusiast" level equipment for a long time.
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Old 01-07-18, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by dim View Post
and still have to stop everytime you get a puncture and still have to carry spare inner tubes on rides?

I doubt that I will ever go back to clinchers .... I ride lots of miles on crappy roads .... in the past 3 months I've had 3 punctures, and the liquid latex has always done the magic .... all punctures self sealed ... no need to stop in the very rain and change a tube

plus ..... there are some very fast durable tubeless tyres on the market at present and more new tubeless tyres are being developed (thats why many new top end bikes are now being sold with tubeless ready rims (check the new Giant bikes) ... the fastest tyre (tested by bicycle rolling resistance website) is a tubeless tyre

you would be a fool to have a wheelset built now that is not tubeless ready (I have HED Belgium Plus rims, laced to Chris King R45 hubs (the ceramic bearing upgrade) and Sapim Cx Ray spokes .... I can use both tubeless tyres aswell as clinchers

and BTW, my gut feel says tubulars are on the way out now ...
Each chooses for themselves. Knock on wood - I don't get many flats. In spite of rather crappy roads. Minding where you're going (avoiding broken glass, road debris etc), along with using tyres that don't require too much pressure (like 28 + mm wide) helps a lot.

I prefer changing a tube (and patching it), then messing with sealant.
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Old 01-07-18, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarch View Post
Some say you would be a fool to waste your money on CX Ray spokes on an ordinary road bike.

Also, I think tubeless are pretty much "out" already - haven't been typical, even for "advanced enthusiast" level equipment for a long time.
nothing 'ordinary' about my bike .... I'm faster than most in my area

tubeless is only just starting now .... even Schwalbe have said that tubeless is the way forward ... plus, as I mentioned, I can also use clinchers if I change my mind

My wheelbuilder is regarded as one of the best in the UK .... he strongly suggested Cx Ray spokes and so far I have cycled 2,367.3km (much of it on crappy roads, and my wheels as as true as the day I got them)

I'd never get tubs though .... in 3 years time tubeless will have taken over ... (it's like in the old days when you dad had tubes in his old Ford tyres .... now, tubeless is the norm for all car tyres)
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Old 01-07-18, 02:56 PM
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So, I'm a fool, Schwalbe sells tubless and there fore promotes them, and, your faster than most. You use the top wheel builder in the UK. Your words are golden
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Old 01-07-18, 09:17 PM
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I have several diff rims. The tire width makes all the difference in comfort.
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Old 01-08-18, 03:05 AM
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Thank you all for the replies. I must admit that my own (limited) expirience differs somehow with the general opinion about wider tires low PSI is all what matters:



I.) Bad rows demand lower pressure in order to improve comfort and what studies showed even rolling resitance. but bad roads + low pressure = pinch flats

the issue I find with wider rim clinchers (17mm vs 15mm internal) is that in fact a 25mm tyre will measure up to ~27mm you will get better cornering gripp less of a "bulb" shape, maybe better aerodynamics (not that I could feel that) but the total tire area remains the same so what you gain in width you loose in tire height which means that the distancee between tire and rims is narrower and thus more prone to pinch flats, in fact the theory "get wider rims and lower the pressure" did not work for me, I had still to keep the pressure up and so no benefit over my 15mm (internal) wide clincher rims

it seems that going wider 17mm vs 15mm in rim witdh increases air volume by only ~2-3% see here :THE RIGHT TYRE WIDTH ON THE RIGHT RIM WIDTH - Engineerstalk : Engineerstalk going wider tires 28mm from 25mm, which will make a difference indeed, is not an option due to frame tolerance

So tubulars or tubless(never tried those) are winners here IMHO


II.)Second I belive rim depth has something to do with comfort despite the general opinion that tire pressure does it all


in fact my vintage mavic GP4 shallow tubular wheels are much more comfortable (to me) even on 22mm butyl conti sprinter tubs at 115psi than fulcrum quattro LG (17mm internal width) 35mm deep rim with continental grand prix clinchers at 90PSI (I have even tired open tubulars like veloflex for a matter of fact and they do seem better but tubulars are still significantly better IMHO). but my question is: are they more comfortable because of tubulars or because of the shallow profile or both and if so what matters most?

in this articleDebunking Wheel Stiffness - Slowtwitch.com it is stated that radial stifness is very much impacted by rim depth. I think that radial stifness accounts for much of the comfort on bad roads (not stiff radially does not mean not stiff lateraly which matters most I think)

III.) And now the third aspect after tubular/clincher wide rim deep rim aspect is wheel material: I have read that carbon absorbs shocks metter than aluminium on bike frames but does this apply to wheels as well? If yes how much difference does it make?

Last edited by SDF15; 01-08-18 at 03:22 AM.
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Old 01-08-18, 11:47 AM
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^^^
Studies show that you don't lose tire height when you gain width with a wider rim.

Also I doubt the tire height has much affect on susceptibility to pinch flats over the range we are talking about. It is about tire pressure. You are talking about 150-300 pounds compressing the tire on a sharp curb or similar. If you don't have enough pressure, another mm height isn't going to protect you.
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Old 01-08-18, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
^^^
Studies show that you don't lose tire height when you gain width with a wider rim.

Also I doubt the tire height has much affect on susceptibility to pinch flats over the range we are talking about. It is about tire pressure. You are talking about 150-300 pounds compressing the tire on a sharp curb or similar. If you don't have enough pressure, another mm height isn't going to protect you.
+1

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