kbarch

Looking forward to more group rides as the weather improves, and I took a look at a recent invitation to one next weekend, only to be very disappointed in the route. The organizer has a habit of taking certain turns that I avoid like the plague; in this case, a normal descent ends with a 90 degree left turn that drops VERY sharply within about 30 feet as it t's into a narrow and busy county road. And when I say sharp drop, I mean so sharp that it's hazardous to WALK it in cleats. It's a nightmare any way you look at it, and what aggravates the matter is that there is nothing special about the route up to it or from it. He also likes to take unprotected left turns across highways. I like the guy and enjoy riding with his crew most of the time, but I HATE his routes, so I end up avoiding his rides.

I don't mind too much if a route is boring, and no amount of climbing is going to turn me off a ride, but I have to say, there are turns on some rides - so much unnecessary agita - that are enough to ruin it for me. How weird is that?

CliffordK

Perhaps talk to the ride organizer.

Ask for a map in advance that you can review, and perhaps add route suggestions.

Doctor Morbius

I don't think it's weird at all. Who wants to cycle Dead Man's Curve? Sounds pointless.

Maelochs

The point isn't that his routes are dangerous, it is that apparently no one has told him.

When I plan my own routes for rush-hour traffic I will go well out of my way to make sure left turns are at lights, or stretches of road so long and flat and straight I can see anyone ... because I am pretty sure the drivers are reading their texts.

On the Sunday slow ride group route there is one unavoidable stop sign at the bottom of a hill---but the route goes straight, and there is space enough for a group to wait. There is another left at the top of a hill, but it is a very low traffic zone with great lines of sight and again, room for a group to wait, and to be easily seen by cars approaching from behind.

Maybe on the next ride, crash into him at the bottom of the descent and push him into traffic ... I mean Tell the guy that his route-planning is occasionally dangerous. Maybe he just hasn't realized how much more important that stuff is with a group ("What's the matter? I ride that road solo every day.")

datlas 

Not weird.

Wise.

I would talk to the ride leader about possible changes in route. Or find another group.

kbarch

Oh, we've complained about particular turns, but perhaps because it's situational and generally good natured, it doesn't sink in. But I also suspect that he enjoys asserting himself with such challenges and doesn't want to give them up. In the past I have told him I was foregoing one of his rides because of the route, and he was totally understanding. His rides are usually nice and fast, plenty of good climbs, and he's generally a very sympathetic leader. An overabundance of caution can be a drag, but you hit on probably the biggest challenge of leading a group; adjusting ones approach to situations to account for the fact that there is a line of people following you - you can't approach them the way you do solo. And yes, my old teammate tends to navigate as if he was alone.

RShantz

What are "unprotected left turns"? I'm assuming left turns w/o a stoplight or stop sign??? I don't really ride a lot where there are highways so left turns are no problem for us. Just curious what obstacles others are dealing with.


We rode 90 miles yesterday and the biggest road we encountered was a brief stretch where there was a center turning lane. Thus taking the road from 2 total lanes to 3 for a mile.

whitemax

That would turn me off too. No sense in putting everyone in danger by picking dangerous routes when there are others to choose from. We have a local LBS owner that leads rides and at times, he'll have on us on roads that are heavily travelled by cars. Though we have the right to be on those roads, it's a dangerous situation for cyclists when there are perhaps 5 or more cars in a row; the car in the back likely won't see us like the one in the front would. I have said something to him on several occasions and he'll typically reply "I've never had a problem on that road but we'll take a different route if it bothers you". That's kind of an ignorant statement IMO as you don't have a problem until you have a problem and then it's too late. He's not meaning to be rude with that statement but I hate to be the one that always mentions it. Others are too polite to say something so it gets old playing the nervous nelly role. I love riding, I just don't want to get killed doing it.


Another pet peeve is when he leads the group out of town which takes a few miles. No problem there, a good warm up but I have seen him pull for almost 20 miles at less than an 18 mph average. Again, nobody will go around him out of politeness until I can't take it anymore and go on by. Again, I hate to always be the one that outwardly has a problem with this behavior. I've gotten so I just don't go anymore which I hate because he has some really good routes, most don't have dangerous roads but just a few do as mentioned above.

TimothyH

I am extremely selective about group rides.

Poor rout planning as described by @kbarch is part of it.

Some groups have a thrill-seeker ambiance and tend to ride dangerously. Other have no clear leader and riders, including myself, have been left in the middle of nowhere with mechanical issues.

One local ride organizer always seems to plan routes where a bridge is out or the road is blocked by construction, necessitating a significant increase in mileage and/or climbing to get around. He tries to trick people into riding longer distance instead of being honest and his reply was "It's good for them" when called on it.

Then there are the manly rides - the conversation is always talking smack, guns and craft beer.

I might jump on six or seven group rides each year but that's about it, mostly just to test my fitness to see if I can hang with the big dogs.


-Tim-

indyfabz

Yeah. I don't go on many local club rides because there are a good number of leaders who simply don't know how to plan good routes. Not much drives me more crazy than going on a group ride from A to B that uses an inferior route when there is a much better option. If I end up saying to myself "There is no reason to be on this road" there is a good chance I won't be back on for another of your rides.

DrIsotope

I rode in a few supported rides last year (when my usual number is zero) and could tell in more than one instance that the route as given was either a) made by someone who was not local, b) formulated to arrive at a particular distance, even if it made for nonsensical loops and turns, or c) both. I only half-fault the organizers-- they're just doing their best. Asking for assistance from a local rider would make things work a lot more smoothly, though.

Unpopular roads aren't the worst, IMO-- it's the Add-Some-Miles squiggles inserted wherever the planner thinks they can add some distance, even if it includes making left turns through unmetered traffic, or getting within a quarter mile fo the start/finish only to loop out for another 10 minutes. One of the worst offenders was made by a local club organizer who puts down 5,000+ miles a year on these local roads, and about 60% of the route was just nonsense. If a route heads down the shoulderless 2-lane that semis take to avoid the freeway interchange, when there's a bike route half a mile away, and a 4-lane with bike lanes just beyond that, it should raise questions.

_ForceD_

I'm with the OP. But before approaching the group/route organizer I'd investigate alternative routes, maybe get a feel of how others in the group like the routes. Then I'd make (non-confrontational) suggestions to him and see how receptive of them he is. If he blows you off...I'd say time to find another group.

Dan

rosefarts

Sounds like a great route, in reverse.

I'm jealous of you who live near enough people to have group rides.

Seattle Forrest

This is one of many reasons I mostly ride solo. I'm not above borrowing a route and improving on it, though.

FlashBazbo

I guess this is a fairly common problem. One large area bike club has a history stretching back at least a decade . . . they are known for extremely hazardous routings. I am not exaggerating when I say that they've had at least one cyclist killed or permanently disabled on a group ride or century every year for at least ten years. And I can't think of any that were killed/injured due to a collision with a motorist. They have all happened on ill-advised high-speed, roller-coaster steep, blind curvy, surprise-gravel, or dog-infested roads.


A few years back, I stopped riding in their group rides or annual century and I let them know the reason. (I'm still a member.) Others have quit for the same reason. The club's annual century has had a fatality in more than half the years since 2006. (Granted, one of those was a heart attack.) In 2015, one died in the annual century and two were permanently disabled from group ride incidents. In 2016, the annual century (the club's biggest fund raiser) actually lost money for the first time. In 2017, they found it almost impossible to find enough volunteers for it. For 2018, the club is going to vote on whether to discontinue the century, ending a multi-decade tradition. (Meanwhile, dozens of members who used to do club rides now regularly participate in non-club group rides every week. Strava tells the tale!)


But the ride leader / century leadership has never got the message. This is a LARGE club, but participation in the rides (except for short beginner rides) has dwindled radically. Leadership blames the weather more often than not. But if the routings were SAFE -- and they made the effort to regain members' trust -- there are dozens of people who would like to ride with the club again. But the leaders just don't get it.

woodcraft

I lead rides & one start includes a nasty little climb to

a tricky turn onto an also steep paved path.

Regular belly-aching & have had folks bail.

Not dangerous, but risk of walking if you fumble the down shifting starting the hill.

In my defense, three of four directions go up, so climbing immediately is normal.


The thing that bugs me is when folks hammer out of a turn at a stop sign.

It only takes a couple of soft pedals to let the rest of the group get through.

An honest sprint or surge is fine; taking advantage of traffic controls is rude or clueless.

caloso

Most of the group rides I do are traditional routes, meaning that they're the same from week to week since the dawn of time. There's a local weeknight ride, the Generic, which was probably a pretty safe rural route 40 years ago, but now it's bombing through suburbia. No thanks.

Bob Ross

Let me guess: South Tweed Blvd where it drops onto Route 9W, just west of Piermont, right?

:banana:

canklecat

Yeah, a local group I've ridden with a few times takes pretty much the same route I do for a training ride, but they go counter-clockwise. Makes no sense to me because it forces some unnecessary turns across rural highways. I prefer my clockwise route.

But I don't see any point in trying to change their routes. I haven't really clicked with their clique and there are other little quirks that don't suit my preferences. They advertise it as a no-drop ride, but it never works out that way. I'm a slug on hills and after about 20 miles of a 50-60 mile ride I end up exhausted trying to bridge the gap with sprints on the flats and downhills. So I always end up going my own route anyway. Mostly I regard their group rides as a good 20 mile workout before I slow down and ride my own pace.

And too much of their alternate route is on a crowded, twisty part of the MUP that's really unsuitable for relatively fast group rides. It should be left to the pedestrians, joggers and neighbors walking with their kids and dogs.

Easier to just go my own way than try to influence another group.

kbarch

You got it. He likes to go up that way, too.

12strings

Sorry to hear it. I love my club's "fast" Monday night route, and the "medium" Thursday night route.

Our Monday night route does have a pretty fast descent winds for a half mile, then straightens out for a 1/4 mile before we have to make a very sharp 120 degree turn at the bottom to continue our route. So you HAVE to slow way down for that. But in 2 years of doing it, I think I've seen a car near that juncture maybe once.

All the other descents lead to open straightaway's, so no need to brake at the bottom.

CliffordK

What does it take to organize your own group ride (or with a couple of other riders that feel the same)?

Maelochs

It takes a couple other riders who feel the same.

CliffordK

Perhaps.

We have a local riding club that I think would welcome new ride leaders, especially mid-winter, and/or if you can make a regular commitment.

Design a ride. Post your name on the schedule, and hope riders come.

Maelochs

I stand by my answer. If no one else comes, it is a solo ride. If a couple others (at least) show up, it is a group ride.

More detailed answer = commitment.

If you show up at the same time every week, wait until five minutes past prescribed roll-out, do the ride .... if people come, they will talk. Talk will spread. If you are doing anything right (like in part, listening to what people think is right and ignoring the stuff you know is wrong ...) then pretty soon ...

you are looking for people to take over the group ride because you are tired of the responsibility.