Kontact 

I would never buy a used bike like a Cervelo if I could get a new one, under warranty for the same kind of cost. Cervelos do not have a low failure rate - any dealer knows how high the warranty rate is for these products.

Used bikes are a great deal, but saving $1000 on a used carbon bike isn't going to make a lot of sense when you end up having to spend $1500 to replace the frame when an internal cable guide fails and the bike has no warranty.


I have a fair number of previously owned bicycles, but they are very conventional, metal bikes.

shelbyfv

The new R2 in red looks great, IMO. Relatively economical with 105. Low end wheels but you get those even with the R3. I'd have to learn a lot more about carbon failures before I would be competent to buy a used carbon frame, unknown history and all that. Not likely to happen.

ddub

What? I've owned various Cervelo bicycles for years (still do). Bought new and used bikes and frame sets. Haven't had a problem with any. Can you be specific as to the failure rates, perhaps a link to data of the problems they have? What failed? I may have been just lucky and not encountered the failures.

Kontact 

Cervelos have tended to have problems with small stuff - cable guides, oversized BB shells and that sort of thing. It doesn't matter how good the structural integrity of the frame is if you BB squeaks and you can't shift.

There is no database - no dealer or manufacturer is going to compile public records of how bad the products it sells are. But I was the service manager at a Cervelo shop and have talked to other people in the same position - it isn't our imagination. Once you're rebuilt enough bikes it make an impression. Cervelo has certain model/years where any example is able to be warrantied if the customer complains and it wasn't already 100% recalled.

And that's Cervelo. I have no idea what Trek or Specialized or Bianchi is like these days with their Chinese frames from a warranty perspective. The only other production bikes we carried were Colnago and Focus. The Colnagos were pretty good, the Focus were not. The rest were custom and were excellent.

CliffordK

I don't think I've paid more than $500 for a frame for any bike. The OP is suggesting $650 for a NOS Cervello.

What does a new frame cost? Maybe $2000 to $3000?

So, for the price of one new frame, one can buy 4 or 5 used/NOS frames.

Now, one has to calculate the chance of a warranty replacement... and that the company will actually accept the warranty replacement, and not call it damage or wear and tear.

One may well be better off buying several used/NOS frames than the one new frame on the off chance that something will go bad.

Also, keep in mind, if the OP crashes his $650 frame, he'll have to buy a new $650 frame. If he buys a $3000 frame and crashes it, he may get say a 20% crash discount, and only have to pay $2400 to replace the frame

If the company is replacing frames at a rate of 5 to 1... then that wouldn't be a company I would choose to buy from.

Of course, it never hurts to look up any used frame that has a "history". A 5 year old frame should either have known faults, or should be OK for many more miles. A brand new, off the shelf frame, on the other hand, may have some design flaw that won't show up for some time.

In some cases, a NOS frame will be considered as sold new, and come with a full warranty.

CliffordK

Were these bikes you sold new, so you could keep statistics of whether you're seeing 100% returns, or say 10% returns, or 1% returns?

For "small parts", did it necessitate a frame replacement, or a simple repair?

I've heard horror stories about press type bottom brackets, and so far have been resisting their use.

I have heard that it can be like pulling teeth to get replacement parts from some companies. For example, it may be hard to get replacement dropouts from many companies, especially after a product line is discontinued.

BTW: I'm looking for replacement top tube cable guides for a couple of year old Colnago cyclocross frame. The guides were removed and lost when the original owner had the frame built to EPS. I'm planning a build with mechanical shifters. Any chance you have some available?

Kontact 

I fear you have grossly missed the point:

I was comparing buying a used bike vs cheap NOS with a warranty.

Kontact 

Again, I was talking about "warranty frame replacement". A frame repair isn't a warranty replacement. I had better things to do than track warranty statistics, but if you only do 10-15 warranties in a year and only 1 isn't a Cervelo, you start to get the feeling that you're doing a lot of Cervelo warranty frame replacements. Or fork replacements. Or aerobar replacements.


And I am not talking about all the rivnut tech directive repairs we had to do in 2012 - that was also a warranty thing, but I didn't have to take the entire bike apart.

ddub

So your only experience was with Cervelo, Colnago and Focus. Self admittedly you have no experience with the other bike brands. I can't think that would be a qualifier to judge quality based on a single bike shop experience. I have a Specialized that is a BB creaker therefore Spec bikes are poor quality? Don't know, but my local bike shop says they see a lot of BB issues with them. Currently own 3 Cervelos and past owner of 6 others. Not a creak in the bunch. So I think single anecdotal evidence is not enough proof to qualify a brand as failure prone.
Edit to add. I may be slightly biased in my opinion.

Kontact 

I have considerable experience with many, many bike brands. But my experience with Raleigh in 1996 or Centurion in 1990 or Cannondale in 2007 aren't so relevant, except to set my expectations about how often warranty replacement should occur. My experience as a dealer and the experience of other dealers who have all dealt with considerably more than your 9 bikes does seem relevant. Much, much less anecdotal than a single owner.


And if your bike shop says your creaky Specialized is typical, and Specialized has sent shops a glue in BB insert to fix the problem, why are you asking me if it is a general QC problem? It sounds like you answered your own question.



Your post illustrates the consumer behavior I have never understood. People will say good or bad things about some brand and the fanboys get riled up and say "Prove it!" Then someone with considerable direct experience tries to do just that and the fanboys just keep moving the bar. In one post you've both dismissed the experience of multiple bike shops and even the idea that a common problem should even be considered a quality issue.

Hey, maybe those Specialized bikes were designed to creak to warn people you're coming?



What you should understand from my post is that Cervelo makes a nice bike when they make a nice bike. If you don't get one with issues - and the vast majority don't have issues - they are very good. But if you are buying a bike from someone you don't know, it would be much better to buy a bike with a very low instance of failure because there are no guarantees at that point. Or buy one with a warranty.

jrobe

My 2012 and 2008 Cervelo R3’s are both going strong with about 60,000 miles on them combined. No issues whatsoever. My tires are 23’s though and even then they are a little tight. I liked the first one so much that I bought a second. I may end up buying a third some day. They fit me like a fine pair of gloves.

Seattle Forrest

I forget what year my R3 was but its life was ended by a driver running a red light, not by a manufacturing defect.

I've missed it ever since. I miss it less now that I have a C3, but, still, my R3 was a fantastic bike.

Nooner

An excellent post.

D-Fuzz

I recently bought a NOS 2013 R3. I also tested a 2017 Roubaix and a 2017 Defy Advanced, but the R3 just seemed to fit me like a glove. I love how light it is and when I stand up to pedal or climb, it feels fast and nimble. The R3 has some older technology I suppose (rim brakes and derailleur cables running along the downtube) but neither were a big deal for me. Despite what manufacturers say, I don’t believe there have been many significant advancements in bike technology since this R3 was near the top of its class. A few grams and millimeters here and there but I think the R3 is still a pretty deadly bike.

vtje

Great to know, thank you. Do you know what is a maximum tire width does it take? I want to get HED Ardennes with 25mm IRCC tires for it, just measured on my wife's bike (she had similar wheels/tires) and it comes to 27mm.
Thanks!

D-Fuzz

I only have 23mm on it right now but there seems to be enough room to go to 25mm. You won’t get bigger than that though.

Kontact 

Wide rims like the Ardennes reduce the outer circumference of the tire a bit, which helps with centerline clearance compared to a narrow rim.

shelbyfv

This may help