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Power meter training & bodybuilding.

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Power meter training & bodybuilding.

Old 02-13-18, 08:10 AM
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Sarequads
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Power meter training & bodybuilding.

Is there a way to log resistance training on training peaks? My legs are dead after a squat and deadlift session where the next day I couldn't even do 200watts but it felt like 400. I expected the pmc on training peaks to highlight that my form was down but it did not. How should I combine my power meter training and lifting together? There is of course a lot more to my situation but I didnt want to put absolutely everything on post for now.

Thank you.
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Old 02-13-18, 11:42 AM
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If you wear a HRM, it'll generate a estimated TSS based on HRM, but I never feel like that captures the extent of the fatigue, so I will usually just revise it up. It's a guess, depending on how hard it was, but I think it's better than nothing.
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Old 02-13-18, 12:12 PM
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Look up Alex Viada. He champions something he calls "hybrid training," which is essentially combining strength and endurance sports. (For example, he competes in both powerlifting and triathlons.)

He refers to a concept he calls "consolidation of stressors." If one has both a heavy leg day for lifting and a day on which one performs intervals, he considers these to be similar in their effect on the body. Rather than spreading them out and impacting recovery negatively, he likes to combine such efforts on the same training day. Conversely, if one has a lifting day on which one uses lower weights but higher reps, that might be a good session to combine on a day with a long endurance ride.
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Old 02-13-18, 12:24 PM
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Are you new to lifting? When I started doing squats, I'd get DOMS real bad, and it'd be hard to do much on the bike for a couple days. After a while my body got used to it and I stopped being very sore after I left the squat rack.
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Old 02-13-18, 12:30 PM
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Because I participate in several sports, I use an HRM for all of them. TP generates hrTSS from HR, which is not the same as TSS which is generated from power. This article:

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/t...he-difference/

notes why hrTSS is particularly poor at guessing at stress from weight training. I use it anyway because it's better than nothing. How much to add to hrTSS might be personal or depend on the type of weight training. Some say 50% increase, others say triple it. Something to think about and experiment with.
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Old 02-13-18, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by AZSkeptic View Post
Look up Alex Viada. He champions something he calls "hybrid training," which is essentially combining strength and endurance sports. (For example, he competes in both powerlifting and triathlons.)

He refers to a concept he calls "consolidation of stressors." If one has both a heavy leg day for lifting and a day on which one performs intervals, he considers these to be similar in their effect on the body. Rather than spreading them out and impacting recovery negatively, he likes to combine such efforts on the same training day. Conversely, if one has a lifting day on which one uses lower weights but higher reps, that might be a good session to combine on a day with a long endurance ride.
I can't see how you could smash your legs in a heavy weight session and then be able to do effective intervals on the bike on the same day. You won't have the strength to tax the aerobic system properly.
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Old 02-13-18, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarequads View Post
Is there a way to log resistance training on training peaks? My legs are dead after a squat and deadlift session where the next day I couldn't even do 200watts but it felt like 400. I expected the pmc on training peaks to highlight that my form was down but it did not. How should I combine my power meter training and lifting together? There is of course a lot more to my situation but I didnt want to put absolutely everything on post for now.

Thank you.
I don't know how to do that in anything that really adjusts correctly. My kid would do 3X a week, 1 real hard day in the gym. The mid-week number from a PM were not really useful. We had USAC coaches look at kids' stuff and ask/comment about lack of power, or why it was so low. They even select for USAC trips on TP power. That was so myopic to take power over race win.
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Old 02-13-18, 02:32 PM
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The bike suffers as a result of the weights, and the weights suffer as a result of the bike.

Off season, when weights are the focus, the bike is going to suck a bit. It doesn't mean the intervals aren't possible, it just means they're going to seem impossible. Then the magic happens, and you get them done. Once the season starts, the jury's out as far as a "maintenance" program, but I think I'll still go at it once a week.
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Old 02-13-18, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
I can't see how you could smash your legs in a heavy weight session and then be able to do effective intervals on the bike on the same day. You won't have the strength to tax the aerobic system properly.
if cycling is your priority you would do the intervals first
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Old 02-13-18, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
if cycling is your priority you would do the intervals first
This. You will have to prioritize which activity gets precedence and plan accordingly.
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Old 02-13-18, 06:57 PM
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This was the question:
Originally Posted by Sarequads View Post
Is there a way to log resistance training on training peaks? ...How should I combine my power meter training and lifting together? There is of course a lot more to my situation but I didnt want to put absolutely everything on post for now.

I did answer, as the father of one that does weight lifting over riding alone, I know of no way to get it recorded. Maybe I don't understand these answers. Are you (below) explaining how to log resistance on training peaks from weight training, or giving your opinion of the training methods?

Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
The bike suffers as a result of the weights, and the weights suffer as a result of the bike.
Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
if cycling is your priority you would do the intervals first
Originally Posted by AZSkeptic View Post
This. You will have to prioritize which activity gets precedence and plan accordingly.
Best I know - you can't reflect this in training peaks. If you need to communicate it do a video or picture. Maybe a power profile or Strava KOM. Or just beat everybody.

Last edited by Doge; 02-13-18 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 02-13-18, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
I can't see how you could smash your legs in a heavy weight session and then be able to do effective intervals on the bike on the same day. You won't have the strength to tax the aerobic system properly.
Yes, very true. OTOH you can do intervals first and then lift with very little drop in your max lifts. First you ride 200k, then sprint, right? I've ridden first, then lifted for years. Works great. Your job when lifting is to lift the most weight you can. The fact that this weight might be a little less than if you were fresh is really not an issue. The important thing is to lift all you can, thus stimulating all your muscle fibers.

Looking at a recent twofer day, I did an hour on the rollers, including 30' of steady pedaling at ~115 cadence, then went to the gym and did an hour+ of 3 X 12, 1 minute between sets, whole body workout. I got a 42 hrTSS for the rollers, 41 for the weights.
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Old 02-14-18, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by AZSkeptic View Post
Look up Alex Viada. He champions something he calls "hybrid training," which is essentially combining strength and endurance sports. (For example, he competes in both powerlifting and triathlons.)

He refers to a concept he calls "consolidation of stressors." If one has both a heavy leg day for lifting and a day on which one performs intervals, he considers these to be similar in their effect on the body. Rather than spreading them out and impacting recovery negatively, he likes to combine such efforts on the same training day. Conversely, if one has a lifting day on which one uses lower weights but higher reps, that might be a good session to combine on a day with a long endurance ride.
Thanks. Ive checked it out and downloaded his pdf.

Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Are you new to lifting? When I started doing squats, I'd get DOMS real bad, and it'd be hard to do much on the bike for a couple days. After a while my body got used to it and I stopped being very sore after I left the squat rack.
Im 29 and have been bodybuilding for 14 years. Im new to cycling though. I have gotten worse doms as the years have gone on. If i do the exact session about 3-4 weeks in a row then i condition to that with no doms.
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Old 02-14-18, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarequads View Post
...Im 29 and have been bodybuilding for 14 years. Im new to cycling though. I have gotten worse doms as the years have gone on. If i do the exact session about 3-4 weeks in a row then i condition to that with no doms.
This is my kid's coach starting age 14. An over 8 year old article, but you get the point.
http://www.ironstring.com/wp/portfol..._june_2010.pdf

I saw enough to convince me those that took time away from riding to lift ~3X a week for USA distances, were generally faster than those that used that time to ride. For daily 100 mile racing, I think the weight other than off season to bulk may not help so much.

Much of this lifting was partial rep, designed for more neurological stimulus than building mass. In fact during this time, he built very little mass. Just got stronger.
https://vimeo.com/113033767
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Old 02-15-18, 04:10 AM
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Where do you guys find the time to ride and lift on the same day, multiple times a week?
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Old 02-15-18, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by San Pedro View Post
Where do you guys find the time to ride and lift on the same day, multiple times a week?
Tuesday and Thursday, up at 4:15 am to lift, then do the bike after work. Saturday, and sometimes Sunday, I sleep in, but that makes the bike work a little tougher. It's not quite back-to-back weights, then bike, but it sure seems like it.
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Old 02-15-18, 09:44 AM
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I know there is debate on this, but much of the gym/weight routine was based on sleep time available. During intense training sleep hours were bumped to 9 a night and calorie intake was about 6K/day of pretty high protein.

Like the other serious racer kids, mine was home / on-line schooled and had the hours luxury he and most don't know.
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Old 02-15-18, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by San Pedro View Post
Where do you guys find the time to ride and lift on the same day, multiple times a week?
I go to the gym and lift at lunch. Doesn't really affect the rest of my schedule.
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Old 02-15-18, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by San Pedro View Post
Where do you guys find the time to ride and lift on the same day, multiple times a week?
I work in a gym so even if I don't ride or lift I still have to do 100 miles per week commute on a bike and 30-50 hours in the gym working anyway.
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Old 02-15-18, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I go to the gym and lift at lunch. Doesn't really affect the rest of my schedule.
I'm the same. 2 days during the week and once at home on the weekends (I have a fairly extensive home gym). Much of my cycling time is commuting which actually saves me time versus taking transit.
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Old 02-15-18, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarequads View Post
I work in a gym so even if I don't ride or lift I still have to do 100 miles per week commute on a bike and 30-50 hours in the gym working anyway.
You are working out 30-50 hours OR you are in the gym 30-50 hours because you work there?

My kid and trainer lift more than most any cyclists I know, but certainly not that much, so if you are actually lifting more than 3-4 hours a week nothing I can say.

You may want to look under the racing -33 forums where there is a weight lifting forum and the track forum guys are into it too.
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Old 02-16-18, 05:39 AM
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I guess being able to have a gym at home or work makes a big difference. I just have kids at work and home to pick up and stairs at work.

Like others though I do get time on the bike everyday because of commuting.
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Old 02-16-18, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
This was the question:

I did answer, as the father of one that does weight lifting over riding alone, I know of no way to get it recorded. Maybe I don't understand these answers. Are you (below) explaining how to log resistance on training peaks from weight training, or giving your opinion of the training methods?

Best I know - you can't reflect this in training peaks. If you need to communicate it do a video or picture. Maybe a power profile or Strava KOM. Or just beat everybody.
@Carbonfiberboy is the only one who actually answered the question.

TrainingPeaks uses a TSS model. When power is available, it calculates TSS from power. Otherwise, it's calculated from heart rate. The answer is to record your heart rate as you lift, and feed it into TP with a hrTSS score. In practice, people double or triple that score because of the way HR fails to capture the physiological stress of lifting.

That's it, that's the answer, that's the best Training Peaks has got for this. Their model predicts when you'll be able to supply enough energy to ride or run or swim.

Their model doesn't say anything about muscle soreness, it's all about your cardiovascular system.

So it's not a very good answer, and it's not CF Boy's fault, it's that TP accounts for this, but poorly. And that's why the replies have been all over the board.
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Old 02-16-18, 03:37 PM
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So basically Training Peaks and TSS can't help you with this.
Best solution is taking note of how the lifting etc effects you and recovery etc.
Work out what your body can handle from there.
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Old 02-16-18, 08:03 PM
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Actually TP and hrTSS works just fine for me. My HR markers follow my TSB quite closely when I include all my hrTSS for lifting, skiing, snowshoes, running, etc., etc. Heckuva lot better than guesswork. I usually plan my workouts a couple weeks in advance, seldom have to adjust because I got it wrong.
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