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Wheel/tire making me crazy

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Wheel/tire making me crazy

Old 02-16-18, 08:24 AM
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bruce19
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Wheel/tire making me crazy

A friend sold me a Bontrager Race wheel with an Ultegra 10 sp cassette for $40. This is for a back up wheel set. Lightly used. He went to 11 sp DI. Without going into all the details, it is incredibly hard to mount a tire. I've been trying to mount a well used Vittoria Rubino. Have never had problems mounting these tires before. Also blowing out tubes trying to do it. Have not had this kind of issue in 40 yrs. of cycling. Checked the tire and wheel for debris and can find nothing. Have never had a Bontrager wheel and am wondering if they are problematic.

Last edited by bruce19; 02-16-18 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 02-16-18, 09:42 AM
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Some tires don't like some rims, and vice-versa. I once tried to mount a Vittoria Randonneur on an WTB i19 hoop-- never gonna happen. The short and simple answer is to pick a different set of backup tires for your backup rims.
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Old 02-16-18, 11:08 AM
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What rim tape is on them, and did you (try to) finish at the valve?
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Old 02-16-18, 12:47 PM
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Your life will be easier with a Kool Stop tire bead jack: Hot deals - post 'em if you got 'em.
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Old 02-16-18, 12:58 PM
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Is the rim "tubeless ready"? Usually having a center channel for the bead seat.

See the A23 diagram I made a while ago:



Anyway, the tubeless ready wheels with the shelf (or noting tubeless ready on the rim), can be difficult to mount. The best thing to do is to try to work the tire down into the center channel which will be in further than the older types of rims.
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Old 02-16-18, 02:36 PM
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Ditto, Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack. Costs only around $12 -- prices fluctuate almost daily on Amazon, from around $11-$13, for some reason. But just buy one and save your hands and frustration. I should have bought one *before* getting new tires for my road bike.

I recently swapped from Schwalbe Ones (which were difficult to mount) to Continental Ultra Sport 2 on my old road bike's Araya CTL-370 rims. The Contis were impossible to mount by hand alone. I didn't have the Kool Stop tire bead jack at the time and used my plastic tire levers. No problem on the back tire but I nicked the new tube on the front and had a slow leak.

And ditto the rim tape/strip. Clearance is non-existent on my old Araya rims. Everything must fit perfectly. I can use ultra thin plastic rim strips that are wider than the recessed channel (14-16mm) for the nipple holes; or 10mm maximum width Velox tape to fit completely within the recessed channel. It will not accommodate even slightly wider cloth tape. Anything different interferes with seating the bead.
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Old 02-16-18, 04:38 PM
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Try warming up the tire to make it more pliable. You can put it in an old pillowcase or sack and throw it in the drier.
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Old 02-16-18, 05:05 PM
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I had a similar problem with a wheel on my wife's bike and yeah, you could get a bead jack and/or heat the tire but what do you do if you're out riding and you have a flat?
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Old 02-16-18, 06:47 PM
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You can take the jack with you, it's not that heavy. If weight or bulk is such an issue but you still want to fix the flat, be very, very careful using a tire lever?
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Old 02-16-18, 06:59 PM
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I dunno... I rode a century last year with a guy who put Serious Miles on his bike each month (approx 800) and he flatted... wrecked 4 tubes trying to fix his flat, and busted one pedros lever because the tire/wheel combo just weren't playing ball. Seems like more hassle than it's worth.
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Old 02-16-18, 07:09 PM
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^^^

I would never seriously consider a tire for use if I couldn't mount it without tools. The most I ever need to get skinny tubeless tires on the rim is a pair of gloves. If a tire requires a bead jack or levers, I buy different tires.
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Old 02-16-18, 07:30 PM
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What if you really like those tires? Maybe pack a spare tire that is easier to mount?
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Old 02-16-18, 09:19 PM
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I don't buy tires sight unseen, so I've not run into that problem. Super-tight fit only seems to be an issue with tires under 28mm wide, and I only have to deal with one tire that narrow. Life is a little slower, but a lot more comfortable up at 35mm and beyond. Tires always go on real easy, too.
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Old 02-16-18, 10:50 PM
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Bought a couple Vittoria Corsa Control tires for winter use here. There aren't all that many fast-ish but protected winter-type tires on the market. Anyway I normally use hands-only, but these puppies need a bead jack. OK, fine, bead jack it is. Whatever. Until I wear them out, anyway. By then maybe there'll be some other tires to try. The spare I carry goes on fine with hands. Also a Vittoria FWIW, but out of production and NOS too. I doubt it's worth my time to complain to Vittoria.
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Old 02-17-18, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
And ditto the rim tape/strip. Clearance is non-existent on my old Araya [CTL-370] rims. Everything must fit perfectly. I can use ultra thin plastic rim strips that are wider than the recessed channel (14-16mm) for the nipple holes; or 10mm maximum width Velox tape to fit completely within the recessed channel. It will not accommodate even slightly wider cloth tape. Anything different interferes with seating the bead.
It's funny -- in something like 9 years of ownership, I've only recently noticed that my Araya 20As have a similar 10mm channel down the center. I'd been making things unnecessarily hard for myself with 19mm (!) Velox tape, installed back when I didn't know any better. The tires I've used went on and off without tools, but only just.



There, now it looks right!

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Old 02-17-18, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
It's funny -- in something like 9 years of ownership, I've only recently noticed that my Araya 20As have a similar 10mm channel down the center. I'd been making things unnecessarily hard for myself with 19mm (!) Velox tape, installed back when I didn't know any better. The tires I've used went on and off without tools, but only just.



There, now it looks right!



I learned the hard way. I watched a YouTube tutorial by bikeman4u showing him just slapping down some full width cloth tape. Figured it was good enough -- and probably would have been with other single wall rims. But not those narrow double wall Arayas. I went nuts trying to figure out why the bead wouldn't seat. Talked to a local mechanic the next day, an old school guy. He handed me a roll of Velox 10mm. That did the trick.

On the other rim I also had to chip off some ancient residue that adhered like glue or melted plastic. That residue was just thick enough to hinder seating the bead with the 10mm Velox tape. Extremely tight clearance in those CTL-370 rims, although that's with 700x23 and 700x25 tires. Maybe the 700x18 or slightly wider tires original spec'd with that bike might have had a touch more clearance.
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Old 02-18-18, 12:19 PM
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FWIW, brand new Velox rim tape...tire inside over night near the fireplace....I usually mount a tire without levers. Not happening here. Damn near bent a Pedro's lever trying to get the tire on, Have used a variety of Vittoria tires but mostly on Mavic and Easton rims. Never had a Bontrager Race wheel before.
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Old 02-18-18, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
FWIW, brand new Velox rim tape...tire inside over night near the fireplace....I usually mount a tire without levers. Not happening here. Damn near bent a Pedro's lever trying to get the tire on, Have used a variety of Vittoria tires but mostly on Mavic and Easton rims. Never had a Bontrager Race wheel before.
Ahh. Do the rims say "tubeless" or "TLR" anywhere on them? If so, get that Velox off there (you can fold it up back-to-back and save for other wheels)! What I'm finding online is that Bontrager's Race wheels have been tubeless compatible for a few years now, and those more or less require thin tubeless tape. Bontrager sells a special snap-in strip for their rims.
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Old 02-20-18, 01:00 PM
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wow, I don't recall a road tire that I didn't need levers for. mtn bike tires, sure. did you go thru many tires finding the right 1?

Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
^^^

I would never seriously consider a tire for use if I couldn't mount it without tools. The most I ever need to get skinny tubeless tires on the rim is a pair of gloves. If a tire requires a bead jack or levers, I buy different tires.
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Old 02-20-18, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by xodondum View Post
wow, I don't recall a road tire that I didn't need levers for. mtn bike tires, sure. did you go thru many tires finding the right 1?


Time to step up your thumb game.

But seriously, I have big hands, so that might be all the difference.
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Old 02-20-18, 03:06 PM
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I've got small, weak, girly hands. I can usually get tires on without levers.

Oddly, I usually need a lever to get them OFF.
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Old 02-26-18, 02:29 PM
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Not tubeless. I put the whole thing aside for a week but I'm going to try a different tire. The Vittoria Rubino Pros mount easily to my Mavic Ksyrium, Mavic Aksium and Easton rims.
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Old 02-26-18, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
Not tubeless.
Are you sure that the wheels aren't tubeless ready? Every wheelset on Trek's website is tubeless ready (TLR) with the exception of the tubular wheelsets (obv), though I guess it's possible that you bought something that's not current. In any event, if they are tubeless ready, you really want to make sure that you get the bead down in the little valley running down the middle of the rim as you work your way around the wheel. If you don't do that, it'll be ungodly tight at the end.


Oh, an the Velox might be too thick if it's a TLR.
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Old 02-27-18, 02:12 AM
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I've mounted tires hundreds of times on other rims but had a hell of a time trying on HED wheels. Then I watched this video. I know you're talking about Bontragers but they might have a similar issue. Who knows.

I was missing the simplest little detail. I suggest you watch it.
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Old 02-27-18, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Are you sure that the wheels aren't tubeless ready? Every wheelset on Trek's website is tubeless ready (TLR) with the exception of the tubular wheelsets (obv), though I guess it's possible that you bought something that's not current. In any event, if they are tubeless ready, you really want to make sure that you get the bead down in the little valley running down the middle of the rim as you work your way around the wheel. If you don't do that, it'll be ungodly tight at the end.


Oh, an the Velox might be too thick if it's a TLR.
The wheel is at least 3 yrs. old as far as I know. The Velox was suggested to me by my LBS so I thought they'd know. I'm going to try to deal with it today.
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