Nick Bain

Reading on wiki Greg changed his story multiple times for why he could not compete. Lance was never dominant during that time and the only race they both competed in in 94 they both dropped out. It may be true about the doping but to put it all on Lance was totally not fair. He also said he cried (of happiness) when Lance won. So I find it hard to believe their was animosity beyond the typical competitiveness back then.

Lazyass

You have your opinion that I won't try to change and I have mine that you won't change. As long as we don't try to lecture each other it's all good. But hate? Yes, there are people poisoned with it. Totally. It's been spewed towards me on this forum. I recall a member wanted to boycott a vintage swap meet in NC over a ridiculous bathroom bill, he thought he was going to be surrounded by "rednecks". I told him to not worry, no one was going to talk politics unless he did. Holy cow, that was a trigger alert. He lost it. It's just silly and sad. At this point I just sit back, shake my head and chuckle over it all. Someone wants to boycott Specialized because of perceived "sexist advertising"? Okay, whatever

kbarch

Yeah. That's just prejudice. Coming from Texas, some of my best friends have been 'redneck' (well, maybe not 'best friends,' but close acquaintances anyhow), and descending from a line of farmers and tradesmen (not all the most enlightened sort) I can't deny there are even some in my family.

The internet isn't going to bring people together and make them see the fellow humanity in others unless they want to - in fact, sometimes it seems to be doing a better job of just the opposite.

Lazyass

I'm actually from Texas and the guy was in NJ haha. Now I lived in Mount Laurel, NJ for three years and I rode with the bike club in Medford. Most of those guys probably had different political views than me (then again Burlington Co. was/is red). But nobody was obsessed with it, we talked about bikes and normal life. To bad this forum couldn't be like that. A guy in the General section was publicly called a racist yesterday because he didn't like stuff made in China, he preferred made in the USA. And I imagine the member who insulted him received no punishment. I mean that's just pure hate to do that to someone.

bruce19

I have a friend that I played Little League with and we went to HS and Jr. College together, who was a tremendous cyclist. By "tremendous" I mean he was on a US Olympics team. He has a kid who was also a National champion and is currently very good friends with Lance Armstrong. He asked me what I thought of Lance. Made me think about it beyond the normal "he's a cheat." What I came to was this....he cheated and he lied and he (perhaps) cheated other athletes out of victories, fame and wealth. Some of that is speculation but the cheating and lying part is not. Whether I agree with his motivations is irrelevant. The thing I can't accept is what he did when he was called on it by Greg and Frankie & Betsy Andreiu. He went out to destroy them. He was vicious and unrelenting. Both Specialized and the world cycling organizations enabled him. That part is beyond sport it's about being a decent human being.

Kontact 

Lemond struggled to understand why he couldn't keep up at the time, and I think it took awhile for him to understand just much of a boost the dopers were getting. He had had enough seasons struggling with his own training and health issues to wonder if the problem was him rather than the field getting faster.

Greg and Lance were not competing against each other much, but Lance certainly typifies that changes to pro cycling that drove Lemond and Graeme Obree out of the sport, as well as one of the reasons Lemond left PDM in 1988. The various claims that Lemond must have been doping, too, always sound like sour grapes compared to the guy's actual actions and performance when he was a pro. If he was doping, then he would have continued to perform well after 1990.

WhyFi

So you mean to say that you'd boycott a company if they got political? You do realize that that's why people are boycotting Vista, right? Vista is a big supporter of the NRA and has their own PAC to financially support politicians that'll push agendas on their behalf. That's pretty political, no?

TGT1

I bought my first mountaineering kit from REI back in 1970.

I just sent them an Email a month or so ago telling them that I will no longer patronize or recommend them since they decided to quit carrying Giro, Bell and Camelbak. (they long ago ceased to be anything except an overpriced store for wanabe's)

I wonder how long till they quit carrying Gregory since it's owned by Bianchi which is owned by BAE?


Not interested in supporting any SJWs that want to circumvent my rights.

bruce19

I'm joining REI.

kbarch

Hate to break it to you, but our rights have nothing to do with it.

Unless it grows on trees or we make it ourselves, someone else has to make it and sell it. If they agree with us that whatever it is we want is OK, then everything is fine - they'll keep making or selling it - other people making a stink about it won't matter. But if they capitulate to the SJW or simply agree with others (i.e., more reasonable and less vehement types) who think that making and selling something we want is not such a good idea and figure it would be a better idea to make or sell something else, well, we're SOL. It was never about us (or our rights) to begin with. It's their business - we're only taking advantage of it.

Kontact 

Unfortunately, the NRA is also the only real industry lobby. So whether or not Vista agrees with everything the NRA says in press releases, they really don't have a lot of options in terms of alternatives.

Anyone who is a member of a trade union should be able to understand not wanting to leave the union even when the union backs a candidate you don't like. How many Teamsters are actually Democrats?


I do not envy the position firearms company's are currently in. The usefulness of the NRA's influence in politics is still greater than the liability to the public - but it is getting close to parity.

bruce19

I don't feel sorry for the NRA or the firearms manufacturers. They brought this on themselves by opposing any reasonable gun control and stoking fear in their membership. Had they attempted to be active in finding solutions to gun violence it may not have gotten to this point. Refusing to support the Dickey Amendment would have been a good start. FWIW, I am a gun owner, have a permit to carry and my son is an armorer and has an FFL. IMO the NRA is complicit in the firearm deaths in this country and they will bear much of the blame when the pendulum swings and we start losing our Second Amendment rights. Now, I'm done on that subject.

SJM205

Nothing is ever so cut and dried as a boycott would presume. Lance's fall from grace has overwhelmed his miraculous recovery from cancer. His Livestrong foundation and its publicity has quite possibly led to the treatments that saved my life last year.

So called "rednecks" supply nearly all of the 1% that is our nation's military, and they happily accept the insults from the coastal elites they defend.

As for guns, my daughter lost a friend at Sandy Hook. What would you pay to have seen the headline that day be, "Principal with Illegal Handgun Kils Armed Intruder." Just several weeks ago in Martland, an officer killed a potential school shooter and the story quickly faded from the news. Two sides, or more, to every story. Didn't Lemond take a gunshot to the leg, while hunting?

That said, I try to shop locally to support my neighbors. I buy gas with the lowest price, in hopes of the market driving costs down. And I like the " Handmade in the USA" emblems on my Cannondale, even though they are no longer made here. Emotion driven boycotts and product shaming turn my stomach.

It's 8am, I think I need a drink.

WhyFi

The kid shot himself.

eja_ bottecchia

Isn’t the USA now the biggest oil producer in the world? That’s what I recall reading recently...I may be wrong, however.

eja_ bottecchia

California has the strictest gun control laws in the country.

Doesn’t seem to help much.

WhyFi

Yeah, all it does is create huge back-ups at the border check-points when you're crossing in to CA from another state.

Bryan C. 

You forgot to add in the media. They sensationalize these mass shootings and turn the shooters into celebrities.

As far as the NRA is concerned they exist because there are millions of people who agree with their philosophy and understand what the words "shall not be infringed" actually mean. Plenty of lobbyists put out much more money to fund politicians than the NRA. What about planned parenthood or anti American Nazi George Soros pushing their agenda on the politicians? Seems like it's ok for Democrats to take their money and influence for some reason.

If the current President is actually the second coming of Hitler as some say then why would the American public be so stupid as to voluntarily disarm themselves? History has proven that fascist regimes prefer their subjects to be defenseless. Remember Tiananmen square? How about the women of Iran disappearing after protesting the hijab? Maybe we can be more like Britain with no guns but plenty of bombings, knife attacks, acid attacks, car and truck attacks? No matter how hard you try, you cannot legislate against the human capacity to kill another person. But social issues and changing the constitution at will does no good. Remember the alchohol ban? 10 years of prohibition proved that you can't legislate human nature. What happens when some people decide to change another amendment? Losing the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 15th amendments would be a serious blow to the liberty all Americans enjoy.

As for the boycotts, the recent court case about the bakery who didn't want to bake a cake for the gay couple proves that businesses are free to operate as they please. Which to me is a very American way of thinking.

I choose to spend my money however and with whom I choose. My choice. Same with the rest of us, there is no problem with that.

I support Specialized in part because of their policy of not selling bikes online. You need to go to a local bike shop and do business with your neighbors.

I do not like to shop with Amazon due to the fact that they take advantage of the USPS with almost free shipping, sell products at or below their cost just to gain market share, and get lucrative tax breaks all while putting locally owned shops and stores out of business. Not to mention making this Bezos guy the richest man in the world.

I am not here to say boycotts shouldn't happen or somehow victimize the companies who get targeted. My point is to look deeper into the issue and see where all the noise is coming from. You may not like who is pulling the strings behind the scenes.

indyfabz

Hello. What's this thread about?

Bryan C. 

Wrong. Those are agriculture checkpoints. There are no gun checkpoints.

noodle soup

****

WhyFi

Oh, I must be confusing them with the checkpoints on the way in to Chicago, then. They're also very strict.

tagaproject6

Oooh, politics!

BillyD

Yeah it’s about that time.

This is why we can’t have nice things.

noodle soup

I'm surprised it went on this long.