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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Sagan = besthe us

Old 04-16-18, 02:25 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
While I appreciate and admire Sagan's riding abilities I don't really understand why he just wants to be a one-day wonder. He apparently has no interest in being a GC rider in a tour or grand tour. His team just exist for the only purpose of grabbing a stage win here and there and letting Sagan do his own thing independently of the team.

So maybe that's part of his strategy. He doesn't make an effort to win any tour so he has more energy reserves for the UCI World Championships than any other rider.
The amount of ignorance in this...I can't even.
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Old 04-16-18, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by nycphotography View Post
Seriously. If I could make millions winning the classics, why would I want to go be mediocre at grand tours?
Exactly. Not only is there no guarantee he'd be competitive in the GT races versus the established riders even if he put in all the time/work, he would be in for a world of misery getting down to the weight required to be competitive on mountain stages. Bradley Wiggins went through exactly that, and although he did manage to win the Tour, he is more of the exception than the norm (and may not have been clean). You can read about Wiggo's transformation here-

Bradley Wiggins: The transformation - Cycling Weekly
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Old 04-16-18, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan333SP View Post
Exactly. Not only is there no guarantee he'd be competitive in the GT races versus the established riders even if he put in all the time/work, he would be in for a world of misery getting down to the weight required to be competitive on mountain stages. Bradley Wiggins went through exactly that, and although he did manage to win the Tour, he is more of the exception than the norm (and may not have been clean). You can read about Wiggo's transformation here-

Bradley Wiggins: The transformation - Cycling Weekly
And he's been all over the map physiologically. From track to Grand Tours to classics where he put on some weight.

And now he's massive compared to his Tour days. Here he is last December doing indoor rowing:


This article shows the contrast even more drastically:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other...urged-11652084
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Old 04-16-18, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog View Post
I totally goofed the phone thingy
So what were you trying to say in the thread title? I might be losing a little too much brain power over it.
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Old 04-16-18, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by WalksOn2Wheels View Post
So what were you trying to say in the thread title? I might be losing a little too much brain power over it.
“Best of us”? “Beseech us”? “Better than us”? “Covfefe”? So many questions.

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Old 04-16-18, 04:44 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Dan333SP View Post
I guess you don't like Taylor Phinney's stoner snowboarder mentality, huh?
I don't like Phinney's personality which is contrived, stilted and tries too hard to be hip. A phony. Maybe a nice guy if he drops the façade off camera but on camera he comes off as a duffus. A pretty good but not great bike rider tho.

But love Sagan. He's the best and so great for the sport. What a breath of fresh air. You can't win at that level and not be a killer, but man, you couldn't draw up a better personality. What charisma and yes, the chicks watch pro cycling because of him.

Will say however, even tho Froome has to be given props for his metronome, workman approach, his current med fiasco withstanding...until Sagan wins the TdF...if he ever does, he will not be considered great. Great comments in this thread about Sagan's weight and training keeping him from winning the prestigious race. He got robbed last year. A disgrace. Mighty mouse who is known for shooting the gap due to his diminutive size, was foolhardy to shoot the gap against superman Sagan who would have put Boonen or anybody else into the wall...probably the greatest road racing bike handler on the planet or ever. Idiot governing body who not only robbed Sagan of his run but of us watching his brilliance.

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Old 04-16-18, 05:06 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by WalksOn2Wheels View Post
So what were you trying to say in the thread title? I might be losing a little too much brain power over it.
Originally Posted by Dan333SP View Post
“Best of us”? “Beseech us”? “Better than us”? “Covfefe”? So many questions.
I'm pretty sure it's "Sagan = he's the cyclist we deserve, but not the one we need, right now."
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Old 04-17-18, 08:03 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
I don't like Phinney's personality which is contrived, stilted and tries too hard to be hip. A phony. Maybe a nice guy if he drops the façade off camera but on camera he comes off as a duffus. A pretty good but not great bike rider tho.

But love Sagan. He's the best and so great for the sport. What a breath of fresh air. You can't win at that level and not be a killer, but man, you couldn't draw up a better personality. What charisma and yes, the chicks watch pro cycling because of him.

Will say however, even tho Froome has to be given props for his metronome, workman approach, his current med fiasco withstanding...until Sagan wins the TdF...if he ever does, he will not be considered great. Great comments in this thread about Sagan's weight and training keeping him from winning the prestigious race. He got robbed last year. A disgrace. Mighty mouse who is known for shooting the gap due to his diminutive size, was foolhardy to shoot the gap against superman Sagan who would have put Boonen or anybody else into the wall...probably the greatest road racing bike handler on the planet or ever. Idiot governing body who not only robbed Sagan of his run but of us watching his brilliance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor...#Major_results

I'm guessing you mean "good, but not great" in the sense of he doesn't pull down massive results regularly. But he's much better than your average no-name domestique and he came back from a pretty horrific injury. He just finished 8th in the race that started this thread. I'd call him a great rider, but not one of "the" greats.

Also, it's not a facade, he's just a privileged white kid from Colorado. He's about as hipster as you can get. It's not an act. You don't have to like it, but it certainly isn't phony.
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Old 04-17-18, 09:28 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by WalksOn2Wheels View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor...#Major_results

I'm guessing you mean "good, but not great" in the sense of he doesn't pull down massive results regularly. But he's much better than your average no-name domestique and he came back from a pretty horrific injury. He just finished 8th in the race that started this thread. I'd call him a great rider, but not one of "the" greats.

Also, it's not a facade, he's just a privileged white kid from Colorado. He's about as hipster as you can get. It's not an act. You don't have to like it, but it certainly isn't phony.
I said good but not great. That's what he is. A good rider but likely will never win the TdF.

As to not a façade, I suppose in some way's that is worse.

We should take a poll to see how many here like Taylor Phinney's 'shtick'. I ain't no prude...in fact the opposite but he really sux as a person. I was hoping it was an act...lol.
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Old 04-17-18, 09:44 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
I said good but not great. That's what he is. A good rider but likely will never win the TdF.

As to not a façade, I suppose in some way's that is worse.

We should take a poll to see how many here like Taylor Phinney's 'shtick'. I ain't no prude...in fact the opposite but he really sux as a person. I was hoping it was an act...lol.
He's won national and world titles in Track and TT, the most recent being national TT champ in 2016. He even wore the Polka Dot jersey at the TDF in 2017. If winning the TdF is your measure for great, then Sagan is also relegated to "good, but not great" status.
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Old 04-17-18, 09:50 AM
  #61  
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What do people not like about Taylor Phinney's personality? Everything I've seen from him seemed witty and intelligent. Is there something I'm missing or is this just a matter of taste?
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Old 04-17-18, 09:59 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by WalksOn2Wheels View Post
He's won national and world titles in Track and TT, the most recent being national TT champ in 2016. He even wore the Polka Dot jersey at the TDF in 2017. If winning the TdF is your measure for great, then Sagan is also relegated to "good, but not great" status.
You really want to debate who is the better cyclist...Phinney versus the three time world champion Sagan?

How about Phinney versus Boonen? Or Phinney versus Cancellara?

Both Boonen and Cancellara are better cyclists and may not go down as great. Phinney is pretty good tho like I said.
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Old 04-17-18, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by memebag View Post
What do people not like about Taylor Phinney's personality? Everything I've seen from him seemed witty and intelligent. Is there something I'm missing or is this just a matter of taste?
Are you from Colorado?

Must be a matter of taste as you say.

Taylor Phinney's alter ego:

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Old 04-17-18, 10:20 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
Are you from Colorado?

Must be a matter of taste as you say.

Taylor Phinney's alter ego:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hReFx1kjuIE
Nope, Texas. So some of y'all just don't like stoners?
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Old 04-17-18, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by memebag View Post
Nope, Texas. So some of y'all just don't like stoners?
Lets see if Phinney does the commentary for this year's TdF.
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Old 04-17-18, 10:41 AM
  #66  
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I think you're letting your opinion of his personality color your opinion of his skills. He's an accomplished rider. Not one of "the" greats by any stretch, but certainly a great rider. Any no-name support rider in a stage race is a good rider. Someone with that many national and world titles to their name, even if they aren't specifically in the road racing discipline, is a great rider.
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Old 04-17-18, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by WalksOn2Wheels View Post
I think you're letting your opinion of his personality color your opinion of his skills. He's an accomplished rider. Not one of "the" greats by any stretch, but certainly a great rider. Any no-name support rider in a stage race is a good rider. Someone with that many national and world titles to their name, even if they aren't specifically in the road racing discipline, is a great rider.
In bold above. Ridiculous. A person's talent for riding has nothing to do with his personality. Contrast the personalities of all the great riders which btw have no comparison to Phinney's stoner persona. And for the last time, Phinney is a good pro rider and not great.

You carry on without me and will let others explain it to you.
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Old 04-17-18, 11:11 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
And for the last time, Phinney is a good pro rider and not great.

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Old 04-17-18, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
Lets see if Phinney does the commentary for this year's TdF.
Why?
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Old 04-17-18, 11:18 AM
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I take exception to the term "One Day Wonder" as applied to Sagan. It sounds it bit pejorative like "One Hit Wonder" for singers who had only one hit in their entire career. With not a single other song worth remembering it's a wonder they had that one hit.

In Peter Sagan's case he's won a great many of the toughest races against the top competition and no one wonders how he does it.

As one of only two riders to win the points classification 5 times in the Tour de France it's clear he's more capable than a large majority of riders in multi day tours as well.
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Old 04-17-18, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
In bold above. Ridiculous. A person's talent for riding has nothing to do with his personality. Contrast the personalities of all the great riders which btw have no comparison to Phinney's stoner persona. And for the last time, Phinney is a good pro rider and not great.

You carry on without me and will let others explain it to you.
That's cute that you think everyone agrees with your opinion.

But hey, my opinion is also an opinion, so there you go. I think we can both agree he'd drop us pretty hard on one of his recovery rides.
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Old 04-17-18, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post

So maybe that's part of his strategy. He doesn't make an effort to win any tour so he has more energy reserves for the UCI World Championships than any other rider.
Someone hasn't watched the spring classics at all.
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Old 04-17-18, 01:48 PM
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what makes sagan a great or best rider?

is he gifted in the lungs and physique? i feel like anyone who trains in the gym properly can get a similar physique. how much of it is cycling technique? i know his sprints at the end seem very calculated, very high IQ rider. what makes him the best?
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Old 04-17-18, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rgr555 View Post
what makes sagan a great or best rider?

is he gifted in the lungs and physique? i feel like anyone who trains in the gym properly can get a similar physique. how much of it is cycling technique? i know his sprints at the end seem very calculated, very high IQ rider. what makes him the best?
Yes, very high cycling IQ without question. Extraordinary bike handling skills that can't be taught in the gym...but the difference between Sagan and mere mortals you can't see...heart and lungs.

FWIW, I am built identically to Eddie Merckx down to his skinny legs. Eddie is built like the boy next door with pretty unremarkable musculature. Same with Greg Lemond. Difference you can't see. Same applies to most top cyclists.

Its also neurological. Extraordinary coordination:

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Old 04-17-18, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by superdex View Post
Someone hasn't watched the spring classics at all.
No, I didn't. They are one-day races. So again, you people are consistently making my point.
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