You need to be smooth and predictable in fast groups
04-28-18, 08:33 PM
#1
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You need to be smooth and predictable in fast groups
There are few things as pleasurable as riding with mature, experienced riders in a fast group. Proper hand signals, steady speed, holding a straight line and generally predictable behavior make it a joy to go fast.
Likewise, there are few things as annoying as riding with someone who swerves all over the place, stands to pedal at inappropriate times or doesn't have a smooth pedal stroke.
Please fellas...
I get that everyone has to learn but I was in a large charity ride today and the behavior of some cyclists at very high speed was downright dangerous. If you are inexperienced and need to learn then don't be afraid to let people know and ask. There is no shame. Watch smooth riders and see what they do. If you have been riding for a decade and any of the following apply to you then shame on you.
Don't swerve. Period. Just stop it. Hold your line. That's all. This isn't mountain biking. You are going to run into divots and sometimes even hit a pot hole; it is inevitable, part of the game. If you are swerving back and forth because you are afraid you are going to hit the wheel of the guy in front of you then you are too close. Just back off, that's all. If you can't ride straight then you have no business being in a paceline at 25 MPH. Go to the back, stay a bike length behind the last rider and watch, that's all.
Pedal smoothly and stop surging - speeding up and slowing, speeding up and slowing, alternately pedaling three strokes and then coasting, repeating this every five seconds. This is not only annoying for the rider(s) behind you but it is dangerous. Stop it. If you are tired at the end of a long ride then go to the back. Please learn to pedal smoothly - constant pressure on the pedals, sometimes a little more and sometimes a little less but always pedaling, smoothly, modulating effort according to the terrain and how fast the riders in front of you are traveling. Hands should be on the hoods, covering or feathering the brakes to scrub off speed if needed while you continue to pedal. Please, please, please, if you cannot pedal smoothly then watch smooth riders and ask them to teach you. There is no shame.
Don't stand in a fast paceline. Most riders slow down when they stand. This is called a "Drop Kick" and it can cause the rider(s) behind you to slam on the brakes or crash into you. It is a frequent cause of accidents. Experienced riders can do it if they are very cognizant and very smooth but if this isn't you then don't do it. Practice at the back or on your own. If you are tired and need to stand frequently then go to the back.
Signal. Always. If you don't know the hand signals then ask. There is no shame and different groups have different hand signals. If you are with unfamiliar riders then use hand signals which cannot be mistaken and simply speak your intent. "Let me in." I'm done pulling." Etc.
Above all, be smooth and predictable - smooth pedal stroke, constant speed, anticipate, signal, call out and hold your line. This is far more important than being fast. If you are inexperienced and want to learn then ask. That's all. People will respect you for asking and other cyclists love to teach. The only shame is not learning and being dangerous at speed.
-Tim-
Likewise, there are few things as annoying as riding with someone who swerves all over the place, stands to pedal at inappropriate times or doesn't have a smooth pedal stroke.
Please fellas...
I get that everyone has to learn but I was in a large charity ride today and the behavior of some cyclists at very high speed was downright dangerous. If you are inexperienced and need to learn then don't be afraid to let people know and ask. There is no shame. Watch smooth riders and see what they do. If you have been riding for a decade and any of the following apply to you then shame on you.
Don't swerve. Period. Just stop it. Hold your line. That's all. This isn't mountain biking. You are going to run into divots and sometimes even hit a pot hole; it is inevitable, part of the game. If you are swerving back and forth because you are afraid you are going to hit the wheel of the guy in front of you then you are too close. Just back off, that's all. If you can't ride straight then you have no business being in a paceline at 25 MPH. Go to the back, stay a bike length behind the last rider and watch, that's all.
Pedal smoothly and stop surging - speeding up and slowing, speeding up and slowing, alternately pedaling three strokes and then coasting, repeating this every five seconds. This is not only annoying for the rider(s) behind you but it is dangerous. Stop it. If you are tired at the end of a long ride then go to the back. Please learn to pedal smoothly - constant pressure on the pedals, sometimes a little more and sometimes a little less but always pedaling, smoothly, modulating effort according to the terrain and how fast the riders in front of you are traveling. Hands should be on the hoods, covering or feathering the brakes to scrub off speed if needed while you continue to pedal. Please, please, please, if you cannot pedal smoothly then watch smooth riders and ask them to teach you. There is no shame.
Don't stand in a fast paceline. Most riders slow down when they stand. This is called a "Drop Kick" and it can cause the rider(s) behind you to slam on the brakes or crash into you. It is a frequent cause of accidents. Experienced riders can do it if they are very cognizant and very smooth but if this isn't you then don't do it. Practice at the back or on your own. If you are tired and need to stand frequently then go to the back.
Signal. Always. If you don't know the hand signals then ask. There is no shame and different groups have different hand signals. If you are with unfamiliar riders then use hand signals which cannot be mistaken and simply speak your intent. "Let me in." I'm done pulling." Etc.
Above all, be smooth and predictable - smooth pedal stroke, constant speed, anticipate, signal, call out and hold your line. This is far more important than being fast. If you are inexperienced and want to learn then ask. That's all. People will respect you for asking and other cyclists love to teach. The only shame is not learning and being dangerous at speed.
-Tim-
Last edited by TimothyH; 04-28-18 at 08:43 PM.
04-28-18, 08:48 PM
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Isn't all of this a bit much to ask of the populace of a large charity ride?
04-28-18, 08:50 PM
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But, a charity ride is a somewhat organized anarchy. Anyone who shows up and pays is contributing to the cause and is welcome. The streets those rides are held on are public streets. Those riders you curse can do anything (within the law - and technically, drafting in most stated is illegal as bicycles are considered vehicles and it would not be hard to convince a jury that following 24" back was way to close). So you can ask those riders to shape up or leave, but you also could just find another group or ride alone.
Now a club ride with paid up club members is different (although an outsider might be able to argue that the riding is taking place on public streets) and races are quite different, with formal rules and often a police presence to separate racers from the general public..
So, your rules are nice and it wold be great if everyone followed them, but they are also unenforceable wishful thinking.
Ben
Now a club ride with paid up club members is different (although an outsider might be able to argue that the riding is taking place on public streets) and races are quite different, with formal rules and often a police presence to separate racers from the general public..
So, your rules are nice and it wold be great if everyone followed them, but they are also unenforceable wishful thinking.
Ben
04-28-18, 08:57 PM
#6
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There are few things as pleasurable as riding with mature, experienced riders in a fast group. Proper hand signals, steady speed, holding a straight line and generally predictable behavior make it a joy to go fast.
Likewise, there are few things as annoying as riding with someone who swerves all over the place, stands to pedal at inappropriate times or doesn't have a smooth pedal stroke.
Please fellas...
I get that everyone has to learn but I was in a large charity ride today and the behavior of some cyclists at very high speed was downright dangerous. If you are inexperienced and need to learn then don't be afraid to let people know and ask. There is no shame. Watch smooth riders and see what they do. If you have been riding for a decade and any of the following apply to you then shame on you.
Don't swerve. Period. Just stop it. Hold your line. That's all. This isn't mountain biking. You are going to run into divots and sometimes even hit a pot hole; it is inevitable, part of the game. If you are swerving back and forth because you are afraid you are going to hit the wheel of the guy in front of you then you are too close. Just back off, that's all. If you can't ride straight then you have no business being in a paceline at 25 MPH. Go to the back, stay a bike length behind the last rider and watch, that's all.
Pedal smoothly and stop surging - speeding up and slowing, speeding up and slowing, alternately pedaling three strokes and then coasting, repeating this every five seconds. This is not only annoying for the rider(s) behind you but it is dangerous. Stop it. If you are tired at the end of a long ride then go to the back. Please learn to pedal smoothly - constant pressure on the pedals, sometimes a little more and sometimes a little less but always pedaling, smoothly, modulating effort according to the terrain and how fast the riders in front of you are traveling. Hands should be on the hoods, covering or feathering the brakes to scrub off speed if needed while you continue to pedal. Please, please, please, if you cannot pedal smoothly then watch smooth riders and ask them to teach you. There is no shame.
Don't stand in a fast paceline. Most riders slow down when they stand. This is called a "Drop Kick" and it can cause the rider(s) behind you to slam on the brakes or crash into you. It is a frequent cause of accidents. Experienced riders can do it if they are very cognizant and very smooth but if this isn't you then don't do it. Practice at the back or on your own. If you are tired and need to stand frequently then go to the back.
Signal. Always. If you don't know the hand signals then ask. There is no shame and different groups have different hand signals. If you are with unfamiliar riders then use hand signals which cannot be mistaken and simply speak your intent. "Let me in." I'm done pulling." Etc.
Above all, be smooth and predictable - smooth pedal stroke, constant speed, anticipate, signal, call out and hold your line. This is far more important than being fast. If you are inexperienced and want to learn then ask. That's all. People will respect you for asking and other cyclists love to teach. The only shame is not learning and being dangerous at speed.
-Tim-
Likewise, there are few things as annoying as riding with someone who swerves all over the place, stands to pedal at inappropriate times or doesn't have a smooth pedal stroke.
Please fellas...
I get that everyone has to learn but I was in a large charity ride today and the behavior of some cyclists at very high speed was downright dangerous. If you are inexperienced and need to learn then don't be afraid to let people know and ask. There is no shame. Watch smooth riders and see what they do. If you have been riding for a decade and any of the following apply to you then shame on you.
Don't swerve. Period. Just stop it. Hold your line. That's all. This isn't mountain biking. You are going to run into divots and sometimes even hit a pot hole; it is inevitable, part of the game. If you are swerving back and forth because you are afraid you are going to hit the wheel of the guy in front of you then you are too close. Just back off, that's all. If you can't ride straight then you have no business being in a paceline at 25 MPH. Go to the back, stay a bike length behind the last rider and watch, that's all.
Pedal smoothly and stop surging - speeding up and slowing, speeding up and slowing, alternately pedaling three strokes and then coasting, repeating this every five seconds. This is not only annoying for the rider(s) behind you but it is dangerous. Stop it. If you are tired at the end of a long ride then go to the back. Please learn to pedal smoothly - constant pressure on the pedals, sometimes a little more and sometimes a little less but always pedaling, smoothly, modulating effort according to the terrain and how fast the riders in front of you are traveling. Hands should be on the hoods, covering or feathering the brakes to scrub off speed if needed while you continue to pedal. Please, please, please, if you cannot pedal smoothly then watch smooth riders and ask them to teach you. There is no shame.
Don't stand in a fast paceline. Most riders slow down when they stand. This is called a "Drop Kick" and it can cause the rider(s) behind you to slam on the brakes or crash into you. It is a frequent cause of accidents. Experienced riders can do it if they are very cognizant and very smooth but if this isn't you then don't do it. Practice at the back or on your own. If you are tired and need to stand frequently then go to the back.
Signal. Always. If you don't know the hand signals then ask. There is no shame and different groups have different hand signals. If you are with unfamiliar riders then use hand signals which cannot be mistaken and simply speak your intent. "Let me in." I'm done pulling." Etc.
Above all, be smooth and predictable - smooth pedal stroke, constant speed, anticipate, signal, call out and hold your line. This is far more important than being fast. If you are inexperienced and want to learn then ask. That's all. People will respect you for asking and other cyclists love to teach. The only shame is not learning and being dangerous at speed.
-Tim-
04-28-18, 11:14 PM
#7
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Its a charity ride...you are expecting way more than whats realistic. Lower your expectations and enjoy the ride.
04-28-18, 11:24 PM
#8
Senior Member
Hot tips for fast rides but even though I've never participated in a charity ride I know enough to have super low expectations of the people riding at pace at the front of one. It's a good idea to give the other riders on a triathlon course a bunch of extra room too BTW.
04-29-18, 02:14 AM
#10
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Good advice for a fast club ride, which I observe myself. That's why I drop to the back as soon as I feel tired or slower than the riders around me. It's up to me to match and mesh with them, not the other way around. Yeah, it's frustrating when I get gapped or dropped, but that's my problem, not theirs.
But for any sort of informal, casual or event group ride where we have no control over the participants, nobody should be riding 20+ mph anywhere close enough to strangers for it to be an issue. Yup, I've seen pairs and small groups of acquaintances riding like that together, but they usually either start at the front and set a fast pace, or carefully pass others until they make their own clearance. Any large event ride I've been on since the 1970s, the fast pairs or groups did that. They started at the front or passed carefully until they were well clear of the slower casual riders.
It's not up the majority of the slower casual riders to accommodate the few folks who want to finish fast and treat it like a race or club ride. Other way around.
Sure, if a stranger jumps on your wheel while you're riding fast with a partner or members of your club, yeah, it's up to the stranger to adapt. But that's another topic from charity or event rides.
But for any sort of informal, casual or event group ride where we have no control over the participants, nobody should be riding 20+ mph anywhere close enough to strangers for it to be an issue. Yup, I've seen pairs and small groups of acquaintances riding like that together, but they usually either start at the front and set a fast pace, or carefully pass others until they make their own clearance. Any large event ride I've been on since the 1970s, the fast pairs or groups did that. They started at the front or passed carefully until they were well clear of the slower casual riders.
It's not up the majority of the slower casual riders to accommodate the few folks who want to finish fast and treat it like a race or club ride. Other way around.
Sure, if a stranger jumps on your wheel while you're riding fast with a partner or members of your club, yeah, it's up to the stranger to adapt. But that's another topic from charity or event rides.
04-29-18, 06:39 AM
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...or we're going to yell at you!
04-29-18, 07:09 AM
#14
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No, it was a great ride.
Homemade strawberry ice cream and baked goods at the rest stops, police stopping traffic for the riders, absolutely amazing scenery, pretty ladies and nice fellas to chat with, etc.
I just can't believe how some riders behave in really fast groups and how otherwise experienced, smooth riders excuse it.
Yeah, I just lost my peace over it and yours is probably the best answer.
One group caught up to me three times, which is completely fine as a group is faster than a solo rider. I get that but first they called a slow roll to let their friends catch up and trapped me in their group, then twice they caught up, surrounded me and started this surging/swerving nonsense. Speaking to the guy who seemed to be leading them and all he did was make excuses. Frustrating, that's all.
I did ride 25 miles through a gorgeous national forest with a small but very smooth group. Sublime.
Great! 106 miles at 18.4 MPH, much of that solo. 5:48 ride time. 1500 calories for breakfast had a positive effect.
Homemade strawberry ice cream and baked goods at the rest stops, police stopping traffic for the riders, absolutely amazing scenery, pretty ladies and nice fellas to chat with, etc.
I just can't believe how some riders behave in really fast groups and how otherwise experienced, smooth riders excuse it.
One group caught up to me three times, which is completely fine as a group is faster than a solo rider. I get that but first they called a slow roll to let their friends catch up and trapped me in their group, then twice they caught up, surrounded me and started this surging/swerving nonsense. Speaking to the guy who seemed to be leading them and all he did was make excuses. Frustrating, that's all.
I did ride 25 miles through a gorgeous national forest with a small but very smooth group. Sublime.
Great! 106 miles at 18.4 MPH, much of that solo. 5:48 ride time. 1500 calories for breakfast had a positive effect.
04-29-18, 07:10 AM
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IMHO, pacelines good or bad should be limited to 4 riders max. That is the equivalent of one slow moving vehicle. Not a problem for traffic to get around. But those large, smooth, experienced conga lines you are longing for are the equivalent of a convoy of semis creeping up a climb. Or a convoy of farm tractors/sprayers/harvesters rolling down the road at 20-25 MPH. Impossible to pass/go around and creating a traffic jam behind them. At least the farm vehicles/implements will pull over/hit the ditch when they get the chance and let traffic by. I have seen some cyclists with slow moving vehicle symbols on their bike/jersey. They get it. Share the road goes both ways.
04-29-18, 07:27 AM
#16
~>~
Riding in a Fast Group:
1: Only ride in a fast group with your trusted teammates who know the techniques & etiquette of the paceline.
Club training rides do not coincide with charity events, ever.
B: Charity rides large or small are no place to ride fast in the chaotic mix of unpredictable skill levels and testosterone poisoning these events draw.
Make a cash donation to the charity and/or volunteer your services at the rest stops or registration and take a rest day instead.
-Bandera
1: Only ride in a fast group with your trusted teammates who know the techniques & etiquette of the paceline.
Club training rides do not coincide with charity events, ever.
B: Charity rides large or small are no place to ride fast in the chaotic mix of unpredictable skill levels and testosterone poisoning these events draw.
Make a cash donation to the charity and/or volunteer your services at the rest stops or registration and take a rest day instead.
-Bandera
Last edited by Bandera; 04-29-18 at 08:11 AM.
04-29-18, 07:45 AM
#17
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Riding in an “extremely fast group” in a charity ride is extremely dangerous, perhaps even suicidal. It’s not the place for fast group riding, period.
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04-29-18, 08:08 AM
#18
Non omnino gravis
I would draft a car before I took the wheel of a complete stranger on a bike.
Other side of that same coin, I would strongly advise against anyone drafting me-- hell, I wouldn't draft me. I ride solo 95% of the time, so I'm not going to signal anything, I not going to point out road hazards, I'm going to follow the most agreeable line, and I'm going to travel at whatever speed I damn well feel like at that given moment. Which is why I ride solo in the first place.
Other side of that same coin, I would strongly advise against anyone drafting me-- hell, I wouldn't draft me. I ride solo 95% of the time, so I'm not going to signal anything, I not going to point out road hazards, I'm going to follow the most agreeable line, and I'm going to travel at whatever speed I damn well feel like at that given moment. Which is why I ride solo in the first place.
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04-29-18, 08:11 AM
#19
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It's sometimes very easy to ride 25+mph in a big charity ride especially near the start where there's a big clump. No pace-lines, unless someone has gotten out ahead. To me that's pretty chaotic with quite a mix of riders, no riding rules or even conventions.
I think that a good strategy in that situation is add a little distance to the bike in front of you, anticipate the swerves and braking and rely on looking ahead rather than signals and group riding habits. And skip the first rest stop to thin out the group!
I think that a good strategy in that situation is add a little distance to the bike in front of you, anticipate the swerves and braking and rely on looking ahead rather than signals and group riding habits. And skip the first rest stop to thin out the group!
04-29-18, 08:35 AM
#20
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I'm not saying that I haven't popped into a fast pace line or two on a few charity rides,
but the much better practice is to stay away from all the yahoos.
but the much better practice is to stay away from all the yahoos.
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04-29-18, 03:25 PM
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I ran into this a couple weeks ago when I went out with an unfamiliar group. Much of what was mentioned was going on which made me a bit on the nervous side. I just went to the back with a couple of tri-guys I know and we just kept a steady pace and let the 'racers' go. Funny thing was that at the end of the ride we had a similar average speed because the other group kept stopping every 8-10 miles to regroup.
04-29-18, 03:33 PM
#24
Senior Member
There are few things as pleasurable as riding with mature, experienced riders in a fast group. Proper hand signals, steady speed, holding a straight line and generally predictable behavior make it a joy to go fast.
Likewise, there are few things as annoying as riding with someone who swerves all over the place, stands to pedal at inappropriate times or doesn't have a smooth pedal stroke.
Please fellas...
I get that everyone has to learn but I was in a large charity ride today and the behavior of some cyclists at very high speed was downright dangerous. If you are inexperienced and need to learn then don't be afraid to let people know and ask. There is no shame. Watch smooth riders and see what they do. If you have been riding for a decade and any of the following apply to you then shame on you.
Don't swerve. Period. Just stop it. Hold your line. That's all. This isn't mountain biking. You are going to run into divots and sometimes even hit a pot hole; it is inevitable, part of the game. If you are swerving back and forth because you are afraid you are going to hit the wheel of the guy in front of you then you are too close. Just back off, that's all. If you can't ride straight then you have no business being in a paceline at 25 MPH. Go to the back, stay a bike length behind the last rider and watch, that's all.
Pedal smoothly and stop surging - speeding up and slowing, speeding up and slowing, alternately pedaling three strokes and then coasting, repeating this every five seconds. This is not only annoying for the rider(s) behind you but it is dangerous. Stop it. If you are tired at the end of a long ride then go to the back. Please learn to pedal smoothly - constant pressure on the pedals, sometimes a little more and sometimes a little less but always pedaling, smoothly, modulating effort according to the terrain and how fast the riders in front of you are traveling. Hands should be on the hoods, covering or feathering the brakes to scrub off speed if needed while you continue to pedal. Please, please, please, if you cannot pedal smoothly then watch smooth riders and ask them to teach you. There is no shame.
Don't stand in a fast paceline. Most riders slow down when they stand. This is called a "Drop Kick" and it can cause the rider(s) behind you to slam on the brakes or crash into you. It is a frequent cause of accidents. Experienced riders can do it if they are very cognizant and very smooth but if this isn't you then don't do it. Practice at the back or on your own. If you are tired and need to stand frequently then go to the back.
Signal. Always. If you don't know the hand signals then ask. There is no shame and different groups have different hand signals. If you are with unfamiliar riders then use hand signals which cannot be mistaken and simply speak your intent. "Let me in." I'm done pulling." Etc.
Above all, be smooth and predictable - smooth pedal stroke, constant speed, anticipate, signal, call out and hold your line. This is far more important than being fast. If you are inexperienced and want to learn then ask. That's all. People will respect you for asking and other cyclists love to teach. The only shame is not learning and being dangerous at speed.
-Tim-
Likewise, there are few things as annoying as riding with someone who swerves all over the place, stands to pedal at inappropriate times or doesn't have a smooth pedal stroke.
Please fellas...
I get that everyone has to learn but I was in a large charity ride today and the behavior of some cyclists at very high speed was downright dangerous. If you are inexperienced and need to learn then don't be afraid to let people know and ask. There is no shame. Watch smooth riders and see what they do. If you have been riding for a decade and any of the following apply to you then shame on you.
Don't swerve. Period. Just stop it. Hold your line. That's all. This isn't mountain biking. You are going to run into divots and sometimes even hit a pot hole; it is inevitable, part of the game. If you are swerving back and forth because you are afraid you are going to hit the wheel of the guy in front of you then you are too close. Just back off, that's all. If you can't ride straight then you have no business being in a paceline at 25 MPH. Go to the back, stay a bike length behind the last rider and watch, that's all.
Pedal smoothly and stop surging - speeding up and slowing, speeding up and slowing, alternately pedaling three strokes and then coasting, repeating this every five seconds. This is not only annoying for the rider(s) behind you but it is dangerous. Stop it. If you are tired at the end of a long ride then go to the back. Please learn to pedal smoothly - constant pressure on the pedals, sometimes a little more and sometimes a little less but always pedaling, smoothly, modulating effort according to the terrain and how fast the riders in front of you are traveling. Hands should be on the hoods, covering or feathering the brakes to scrub off speed if needed while you continue to pedal. Please, please, please, if you cannot pedal smoothly then watch smooth riders and ask them to teach you. There is no shame.
Don't stand in a fast paceline. Most riders slow down when they stand. This is called a "Drop Kick" and it can cause the rider(s) behind you to slam on the brakes or crash into you. It is a frequent cause of accidents. Experienced riders can do it if they are very cognizant and very smooth but if this isn't you then don't do it. Practice at the back or on your own. If you are tired and need to stand frequently then go to the back.
Signal. Always. If you don't know the hand signals then ask. There is no shame and different groups have different hand signals. If you are with unfamiliar riders then use hand signals which cannot be mistaken and simply speak your intent. "Let me in." I'm done pulling." Etc.
Above all, be smooth and predictable - smooth pedal stroke, constant speed, anticipate, signal, call out and hold your line. This is far more important than being fast. If you are inexperienced and want to learn then ask. That's all. People will respect you for asking and other cyclists love to teach. The only shame is not learning and being dangerous at speed.
-Tim-
04-29-18, 03:47 PM
#25
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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A) There are norms for group riding. It's critical for the safety of everyone in the group to know and adhere to those norms.
B) Those norms apply whether you're in a race, on a training ride with teammates, or on a charity ride with a bunch of randos.
C) If you're in a group with riders who can't or won't abide by those norms, your choices are to educate and be a good role model, or drop off the back/ride off the front.
D) Thanks for reminding me why I never go on charity rides.
B) Those norms apply whether you're in a race, on a training ride with teammates, or on a charity ride with a bunch of randos.
C) If you're in a group with riders who can't or won't abide by those norms, your choices are to educate and be a good role model, or drop off the back/ride off the front.
D) Thanks for reminding me why I never go on charity rides.