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Save 100g, will it help better performance?

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Save 100g, will it help better performance?

Old 05-30-18, 07:43 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
As a one-time thing, saving 100g is pretty meaningless. As a part of a whole-bike diet, saving 100g on one component is a nice start.
This.
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Old 05-30-18, 07:45 AM
  #27  
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"You're worth it."

So, go ahead.
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Old 05-30-18, 08:40 AM
  #28  
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let me put this into perspective. I used to fall for all the gimics of watts saving and gram saving. Somehow, I ride with people who have $12K bikes and they are no better then me. It took me a while to figure out why.

here is couple key points.

-NOBODY trains to their 100% capacity and they should not. Its bad for you. You always want to leave some reserves in your tank so you can recover faster.
-Companies that say you will be so and so faster with a lighter set of wheels/ or more aero wheels or any other bike part using testing.
-That assumption means that if you race, for example you and another rider are going to use 400watts to complete the race. That means the person with lighter bike will be faster.
-In reality, if the person riding a lighter bike pedals at 400watts, you will pedal at 410watts to match their speed. Is that bad? ONLY if the race that you are doing is: 1. NON STOP. 2. Riding till you cannot ride anymore, which brings me to the first point. You should always train to be able to complete any ride with out giving your 100%.

I broke my light carbon aero wheel and have been riding on my stock heavier wheels for the past 2 months now, yet somehow I am always up front riding hard and in fact my times have improved. I may work harder than another person but that does not mean that I will lose or be more fatigued, just that I am training hard enough to match what the ride requires.
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Old 05-30-18, 08:59 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Elvir View Post
let me put this into perspective. I used to fall for all the gimics of watts saving and gram saving. Somehow, I ride with people who have $12K bikes and they are no better then me. It took me a while to figure out why.

here is couple key points.

-NOBODY trains to their 100% capacity and they should not. Its bad for you. You always want to leave some reserves in your tank so you can recover faster.
-Companies that say you will be so and so faster with a lighter set of wheels/ or more aero wheels or any other bike part using testing.
-That assumption means that if you race, for example you and another rider are going to use 400watts to complete the race. That means the person with lighter bike will be faster.
-In reality, if the person riding a lighter bike pedals at 400watts, you will pedal at 410watts to match their speed. Is that bad? ONLY if the race that you are doing is: 1. NON STOP. 2. Riding till you cannot ride anymore, which brings me to the first point. You should always train to be able to complete any ride with out giving your 100%.

I broke my light carbon aero wheel and have been riding on my stock heavier wheels for the past 2 months now, yet somehow I am always up front riding hard and in fact my times have improved. I may work harder than another person but that does not mean that I will lose or be more fatigued, just that I am training hard enough to match what the ride requires.
There is finally somebody else here that knows what they're talking about.
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Old 05-30-18, 09:44 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Elvir View Post
let me put this into perspective. I used to fall for all the gimics of watts saving and gram saving. Somehow, I ride with people who have $12K bikes and they are no better then me. It took me a while to figure out why.

here is couple key points.

-NOBODY trains to their 100% capacity and they should not. Its bad for you. You always want to leave some reserves in your tank so you can recover faster.
.
Define 100% capacity. How sore and tired can I be until it's bad for me?
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Old 05-30-18, 11:12 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by exime View Post
Define 100% capacity. How sore and tired can I be until it's bad for me?
100% capacity is you go beyond your limit. You are cramped up cant move, cant walk..total overkill. An example would be trying to keep "20mph" average and the only way to do it, is to keep jumping out of the saddle, just so that you loose your speed 2 seconds later because your legs cannot sustain the intensity anymore. If you ride one day at any pace, and you cannot sustain that pace the next day, to me that is overtraining.

I hardly ever train to the point that leaves me sore that my legs shiver the next morning going down stairs. I feel the typical soreness that I would expect from a hard exercise, but since everyday is leg day, I limit the duration of my intensity. I still train hard, I just cover less miles. I get good sleep and stretch as much as needed.
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Old 05-30-18, 11:34 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Elvir View Post
100% capacity is you go beyond your limit. You are cramped up cant move, cant walk..total overkill. An example would be trying to keep "20mph" average and the only way to do it, is to keep jumping out of the saddle, just so that you loose your speed 2 seconds later because your legs cannot sustain the intensity anymore. If you ride one day at any pace, and you cannot sustain that pace the next day, to me that is overtraining.

I hardly ever train to the point that leaves me sore that my legs shiver the next morning going down stairs. I feel the typical soreness that I would expect from a hard exercise, but since everyday is leg day, I limit the duration of my intensity. I still train hard, I just cover less miles. I get good sleep and stretch as much as needed.
Thank you for the scientifical break-down.
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Old 05-30-18, 11:38 AM
  #33  
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no problem. glad I could help.
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Old 05-30-18, 01:11 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Elvir View Post
If you ride one day at any pace, and you cannot sustain that pace the next day, to me that is overtraining.
I wouldn't say it's always overtraining. If you do an interval of say 20 minutes at max pace (for 20mins) several times in a ride, you will be pretty tired after that ride, and probably unable to recover sufficiently to reproduce the effort the next day. Lots of people do those kinds of intense efforts in training, are they all overtraining just because they have to take it easy the next day?
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Old 05-30-18, 01:50 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by themidge View Post
I wouldn't say it's always overtraining. If you do an interval of say 20 minutes at max pace (for 20mins) several times in a ride, you will be pretty tired after that ride, and probably unable to recover sufficiently to reproduce the effort the next day. Lots of people do those kinds of intense efforts in training, are they all overtraining just because they have to take it easy the next day?
i don't disagree. I was asked a rhetorical question and given a rhetorical answer.
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Old 05-30-18, 01:53 PM
  #36  
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Why not just shed 100 grams off of the body weight as surely there is a extra 100 or so on the carcass ..?
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Old 05-30-18, 01:59 PM
  #37  
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Nice parts often weigh less but they have other pleasures too. They look better, shift better, the lever action is smoother, they last longer.
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Old 05-30-18, 02:58 PM
  #38  
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Any real benefit between carbon and alloy is going to be in comfort. 100g isnít going to mean much unless you weigh under 70kg, your bike weighs under 6kg and youíre rides typically finish at a significantly higher elevation than they start.

That being said, if youíre doing a 3-5hr Ride and your hands are killing you because your bars donít absorb as much of the shock and vibration, you will possibly be slower.
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Old 05-31-18, 08:07 AM
  #39  
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100g over a 70kg rider + 8 kg frame = 0.1 % of the weight. So you will not notice it, no.

Over an 8kg bike, 100g is only 1.25% of the bike weight, so you wouldnt even notice it when holding the bike.

The only meaningful difference in bike weights that you feel is between lets say a 9kg bike and a 7kg bike. You would notice while climbing, or getting out of the saddle, that the 7kg bike "feels" lighter. But just 100g by itself, no way you can tell the difference.
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Old 05-31-18, 08:19 AM
  #40  
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I would never notice 100g of weight reduction. I imagine you could take a full kilogram off of an unsuspecting person's bike and they would never know.

However, on longer rides that end in the afternoon when it's gotten hotter, and I'm on the ~3 mile stretch across the wash to get home, I'm a bit faster because both water bottles are empty (1.4kg) and I've usually sweat out at least a liter (so another 1kg+.) So find a way to drop 2,400g without dehydrating, and you might pick up a little speed.
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Old 05-31-18, 08:20 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
One of my full water bottles weighs 775g (I weighed it). Am I any faster after drinking 1/7th of it? Uh no. Am I faster after drinking the entire bottle? Uh no. Do I notice any weight difference whatsoever? Uh no.

But I have no doubt someone will try to debate it.
If you drink the water total system weight stays the same ;-)
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Old 05-31-18, 08:24 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
If you drink the water total system weight stays the same ;-)
I know there's a winky there at the end, but I've ended summer rides down 3kg in water weight, even after consuming six or more full bottles. So you know, dehydrated. But lighter. Definitely lighter.
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Old 05-31-18, 12:15 PM
  #43  
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100g is huuuge. its the difference between winning the TDF and coming last imo.
I would do it for the bling alone. also it would look cool outside starbucks.
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Old 05-31-18, 01:19 PM
  #44  
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But the water goes into you

It's a zero sum game.
Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
One of my full water bottles weighs 775g (I weighed it). Am I any faster after drinking 1/7th of it? Uh no. Am I faster after drinking the entire bottle? Uh no. Do I notice any weight difference whatsoever? Uh no.

But I have no doubt someone will try to debate it.
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Old 05-31-18, 05:12 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Elvir View Post
let me put this into perspective. I used to fall for all the gimics of watts saving and gram saving. Somehow, I ride with people who have $12K bikes and they are no better then me. It took me a while to figure out why.

here is couple key points.

-NOBODY trains to their 100% capacity and they should not. Its bad for you. You always want to leave some reserves in your tank so you can recover faster.
-Companies that say you will be so and so faster with a lighter set of wheels/ or more aero wheels or any other bike part using testing.
-That assumption means that if you race, for example you and another rider are going to use 400watts to complete the race. That means the person with lighter bike will be faster.
-In reality, if the person riding a lighter bike pedals at 400watts, you will pedal at 410watts to match their speed. Is that bad? ONLY if the race that you are doing is: 1. NON STOP. 2. Riding till you cannot ride anymore, which brings me to the first point. You should always train to be able to complete any ride with out giving your 100%.

I broke my light carbon aero wheel and have been riding on my stock heavier wheels for the past 2 months now, yet somehow I am always up front riding hard and in fact my times have improved. I may work harder than another person but that does not mean that I will lose or be more fatigued, just that I am training hard enough to match what the ride requires.
Sure, sometimes the fast guys show up to the group ride on their gravel bikes with 40mm tires and still hang, but they can put out more watts. If I did the same I'd dropped off the back. Training and equipment speed gains are not mutually exclusive. Its also simply funner to ride a lighter faster bike.
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Old 05-31-18, 06:11 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
One of my full water bottles weighs 775g (I weighed it). Am I any faster after drinking 1/7th of it? Uh no. Am I faster after drinking the entire bottle? Uh no. Do I notice any weight difference whatsoever? Uh no.

But I have no doubt someone will try to debate it.
Are you trying to debate that dropping weight doesn't have an affect on speed in certain situations (notably going uphill)?

Because that's wrong.

Whether or not you notice it or consider it significant is irrelevant.
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Old 05-31-18, 06:16 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Elvir View Post
l

I broke my light carbon aero wheel and have been riding on my stock heavier wheels for the past 2 months now, yet somehow I am always up front riding hard and in fact my times have improved. I may work harder than another person but that does not mean that I will lose or be more fatigued, just that I am training hard enough to match what the ride requires.
But a faster bike would still make you faster. That's the problem with anecdotes like yours: they're either/or.

Do what you've done, but on a faster bike, and you've gone even faster than you would with just one or the other. No either/or necessary.
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Old 05-31-18, 06:17 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Elvir View Post
100% capacity is you go beyond your limit. You are cramped up cant move, cant walk..total overkill. An example would be trying to keep "20mph" average and the only way to do it, is to keep jumping out of the saddle, just so that you loose your speed 2 seconds later because your legs cannot sustain the intensity anymore. If you ride one day at any pace, and you cannot sustain that pace the next day, to me that is overtraining.
That's not overtraining. Not even a little bit.
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Old 05-31-18, 06:55 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Yes. When you climb Mt Washington (or similar steep climbs), if say you+bike+cloths+plus everything in your pockets weigh 175 pounds, you will get to the top 0.14% faster. Do the climb in an hour and save 5 seconds.

Now, on flat ground, the weight savings only shows up as less rolling resistance and as a result of that, lower drivetrain resistance. So it rolling resistance is 10% of the total and mechanical 5%, you would have a 0.0014 X 0.1 + 0.0014 X 0.1 X 0.05 = .0147% faster. (Over an hour, 1/2 second. At 20 mph, 18 feet. Real gains. Go for it!)

And yes, math and numbers takes all the fun out if it.

Ben
Hahahaha... You actually properly answered the question and nobody cares.
I agree. The simple answer to the OP's question is yes, 100g saving will make you faster. Whether it matters to the given rider or not is a different question.
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Old 05-31-18, 06:57 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by nemeseri View Post
Hahahaha... You actually properly answered the question and nobody cares.
I agree. The simple answer to the OP's question is yes, 100g saving will make you faster. Whether it matters to the given rider or not is a different question.
He neglected to include the slower acceleration. Which is small, but when you're down to 10^-4 anyway ...
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