Seattle Forrest

I'm posting this because it's mid-July, and there are a lot of new riders. 'Tis the season. Many people in this forum already know everything I'm about to say.

Mixed or multi use paths (MUPs) seem like they'd be an ideal place to ride, because there are no cars. They're physically separated from the road, so even the drunkest, textingest driver can't get you.

Instead, you get a lot of people moving unpredictably. There are dogs on 30 foot leashes, groups of people walking shoulder to shoulder, moms pushing strollers, and people on rental bikes who've never rode before in their life and don't know how to control a bike. All of these people will do things like move sideways at random, without checking their surroundings first. Pedestrians don't feel obligated to hold their line.

You can ride on these trails when they're a good alternative to bad roads. Just be aware that people do unpredictable things there, and take it slow. Dial it up to 400 watts when you get back on the road.

Seattle Forrest

I took a short section of MUP last night to avoid a busy, fast street, and almost got taken out by a lady on an Ofo bike. I could see she was having trouble controlling it and gave her plenty of room, but at the last moment she veered towards me. No contact, but it was a little more excitement than I wanted.

redlude97

I'm assuming the Burke? I use it daily for my commute between shoreline and DT. Like you said, just don't treat it like a highway when people are around. There are places on it you can go fast, and there are places you should go slow, but as you've observed not everyone plays together nicely.

indyfabz

So a mofo on an Ofo.

KraneXL

Which defeats the purpose, don't you think? I mean these are bike specific paths where pedestrian are present. The point being, if you have to "take it slow" to use them (yield to the pedestrian), then you're really just back to a sidewalk.

Maelochs

Ummm ... No.

Not to raise niggling objections but ... the premise fo the thread is that These are not "bike paths" being invaded by pedestrians. These are pathways for everyone except people on motorized vehicles.

These ARE "sidewalks." They are just Wide sidewalks, so there is room for people on bikes, moving at walking pace, to get past the pedestrians, roller-bladers, and pram-pushers.

There are not may "bike-only" paths around ... most are MUPs ... and as the OP notes, for the reasons noted, they are dangerous for cyclists and others, interacting.

Seattle Forrest

Ship Canal Trail, near the Ballard Bridge, heading toward Myrtle Edwards.

Seattle Forrest

That's it, yo.

berner

Just in the past few weeks I saw a woman in flip flops riding a bike during the Fourth of July town parade. Somehow one flip flop came loose and entangled in the pedal or chain ring and she went down causing road rash. I stopped and offered an antiseptic towelette from my kit. Sometimes the unexpected just happens and luckily she was on the bike path in town and not on the highway and under a car.

Then on another day, while on the way to a library, I came across an older couple, nearly as old as myself, where the woman was sitting on the pavement of the bike path. Again I stopped to see if help was needed. She told me someone had cut in front of here causing her to fall. She seemed to be completely unhurt but was somewhat shaken. We chatted for a few minutes as she continued to sit on the pavement. Older and newer cyclists are most likely not expecting to be on high alert on a bike path while at their leisure.

Again on another day last week, I encountered a group of 10 or so cyclists milling around on and just off the bike path. I saw that one rider had a crash and was lying on his back in some discomfort and learned help was on the way. I stopped of course and was walking toward the group when a cyclist coming the other way at high speed started yelling to get out of the way. Only half the bike path was clear and he wanted that half even though he had to cross to the opposite side to get it. It evidently never occurred to this simian to slow. It is clear some people not only see the world differently, they see it way differently. So yes, bike paths can be dangerous.

Riveting

Berner, I assume it was the EBBP you're speaking of, I know it well: East Bay Bike Path 24 hr. Ride. When I was doing that ride in complete darkness (for 10 hrs, on a Saturday night), I saw all sorts of stuff that could've caused a crash, mostly drunk kids, carrying open cases of beer, walking in groups across the full width of the path, or salmoning on skateboards, all with zero lights, other than the glow of cell phones. I can't imagine being on that trail, anywhere near Bristol, on the 4th!

KraneXL

Okay, this is becoming tiresome ladies and gentleman. First, its not safe on the roads because yield to vehicles. Then its not safe of the sidewalks because yield to pedestrian. Now we have the MUP and again, its not safe because slow down for pedestrian...again.

Is there ever a place or occasion where a cyclist can cycle where it is safe? No dogs, cats, kids, family picnics, flea market, Sunday go to meetin' time, etc.? Is it ever the cyclist turn?

Aren't we law abiding tax payers too? So why are we always relocated to the second-class citizen status? Does anybody ever yield for us?

rubiksoval

On the road you are a vehicle. You don't yield to other vehicles (except at a yield sign).

PaulRivers

The problem with all the "are MUPS dangerous" topics is that MUPs vary greatly in terms of traffic, size, and division between pedestrians and bikers.

Some mups are heavily trafficked, only about sidewalk width, and mix both kinds of riders. On these it's often not safe to ride your bike faster than a fast jog.
Other mups split up pedestrian and bike traffic into separate lanes, are as wide or wider than a street, and/or have few people on them. You can bike pretty much full speed on them.

Also it's not like road riding is without stops and caution. I don't fly through intersection without regard to traffic signals or traffic you know? I agree that MUPS need a different kind of cautiousness in their riding but most of the ones around me are both faster (fewer stops because of intersecting roads) and safer (I'd rather take a tumble off the bike than be hit by a 2 ton automobile). But...I've seen pics of mups in other places that look horrifically crowded and my attitude would be completely different. Like most MUPS in minneapolis are either split into separate pedestrian/biking lanes, or are low traffic enough that pedestrians are only infrequently a concern.

Biking on a trail like this at a safe speed is going to mean biking at an average speed of "fast jog". If you're trying to do faster speeds get the heck off the trail and onto the road:



On the other hand if your trails looks like this when you ride it's pretty awesome:


Other trails are designed to keep pedestrians and bikers separate:


Our lake trails are physically divided between bike and pedestrian traffic, and the bike side is one-way:


The Cedar Lake Trail that goes to downtown actually has 3 separate lanes seperated by greenery, one for pedestrians, one for eastbound bikes, and one for westbound bikes:

KraneXL

You must be new here?

colnago62

Seattle Forrest

Velodrome.

Life is full of risks. On and off the bike. I posted this thread because it's cycling season, and there are a lot of new riders out. It's not obvious, especially to new cyclists, that there are dangers on the MUP. I started this thread to point that fact out.

bikecrate

So nowhere is safe. I've had my worst cycling injury on a MUP courtesy of wrong way cyclist and that includes being hit by a car on the road.

Seattle Forrest

Sure, but everybody already knows that. People who just bought a bike because it's nice out and bikes are fun and burn calories aren't necessarily aware that MUPs are often full of people who are prone to moving unpredictably. Some MUPs are divided into a bike and a pedestrian section, but nobody ever honors that division; it creates the idea that these are "bike paths" but the reality is they are not for droping the hamer.

This isn't a dogmatic anti-MUP thread. It's an FYI to new riders. You have enough experience to already know everything I have to say on the matter, and to be able to recognize exceptions to the rule.

noodle soup

I never realized cycling had a "season".

indyfabz

In your case, definitely not in the shower.

berner

I stay off the bike path as much as possible and ride the road to the next town as it has a wide shoulder. Nevertheless, I find myself on it frequently as I like the water views of the various salt water ponds and the bay. Getting around town, even on a very busy week-end is easy when you live here and know the side streets. I've had the same experience on the bike path at night with clueless people.

toast3d

Put a bell on your bike.

Cyclist0108

This is precisely why Jesus invented the gravel bike.

PaulRivers

Sure, but then I could summarize my post as "if you mup is awful to bike on there might be another better mup to bike on in your area instead".

Carbonfiberboy 

Yes, MUPs are really dangerous if you are accustomed to moving your road bike right along. The trouble with MUPs is that there are essentially no rules. People act like they are in their private driveway. OTOH, IMO roads are safe if you follow the rules. The nice thing is that there are rules and people follow them. In all my 65 years of cycling, I've had one unfortunate encounter with a driver who didn't see me. I never wore a blue jersey again, and never rode without lights in the daytime again. You just have to be smart. In Washington State, motorcycles have to burn lights in the daytime, but no similar law for bicycles. How stupid is that? We are way harder to see.

Anyway, we have road bikes, ride them on the frigging road, obey the rules, don't wear BLACK and burn your lights.