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Electronic shifting - interesting observation

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Old 07-24-18, 12:16 PM
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Old 07-30-18, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by oldnslow2
Actually the Subaru mimics 7 speeds and has paddle shifters.
If you're putting it into "manual" mode and simulating a manual transmission by locking the CVT in discrete locations, you're not gaining anything over the MT apart from clutch engage-disengage time... Which isn't likely to affect overall economy much, if at all. The CVT is *only* more efficient than a manual when it's allowed to move freely through all gear ratios and maximize the output dynamically.
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Old 07-30-18, 12:00 PM
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I have used Ultegra Di2 for over 5 yr. I would never buy a bicycle with mechanical shifting again. I changed out the mechanical system myself and sold the Ultegra parts that I removed on ebay. Selling the used parts dramatically reduced the cost. I also found a whole system at a great price on ebay. The newer systems are even better than what I bought.

I never found disc brakes to be too much of an advantage until I rode the Colorado Rockies. Going downhill with conventional brakes required being in the drops with the hands on the brakes all the way down long descents. Disc brakes would perform so much better on long downhill rides.
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Old 07-30-18, 02:58 PM
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In case OP is keeping score: I was on a 6-person group ride yesterday, and the split wound up being 4/2 in favor of electronic.
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Old 07-31-18, 03:19 AM
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I have never ridden a bike with Di2, so I have a few questions. Electronic shifting just automates the movement of the RD and FD, correct? Other than tapping the brifters to shift, you just tap a few buttons. I get the advantage of being able to place the shifters anywhere you want on the bars, that would be nice to have. But other than that you still need to reduce chain tension while still pedaling in order to get a smooth shift, correct? So shifting while going uphill or at speed will still cost you a little speed and momentum. With that in mind, how is electronic shifting really any faster or more efficient than a well tuned mechanical shifter?
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Old 07-31-18, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Tape2012
I have never ridden a bike with Di2, so I have a few questions. Electronic shifting just automates the movement of the RD and FD, correct? Other than tapping the brifters to shift, you just tap a few buttons. I get the advantage of being able to place the shifters anywhere you want on the bars, that would be nice to have. But other than that you still need to reduce chain tension while still pedaling in order to get a smooth shift, correct? So shifting while going uphill or at speed will still cost you a little speed and momentum. With that in mind, how is electronic shifting really any faster or more efficient than a well tuned mechanical shifter?
At least on the Di2 system, there’s no long’ish lever action, so no need to push as far with the bigger levers to get to larger cogs or big ring. Easy button push and done. On mechanical there are click points as the action allows multiple gears depending on how far you throw the lever, thus there can me miss shifts if you press too far. With electronic, you can hold the button to move the range, do multiple presses quickly to move a few gears, or a simple push for a single gear move, thus no misses, in my experience.

I’ve never needed to reduce chain pressure to shift. The Di2 system claims to shift better under load. I’ve done lots of shifts while standing, never a lag or issue. The rear does a slight overshift on the derailer move ( the way you could on older friction systems) thus gets the chain onto the desired cog quickly. That’s a faster action generally. I actually have to look at my gear indicator to see if the shift happened on my Di2, it’s that quick and silent. Oh, and I get a gearing readout on my Garmin screen. That eliminates needing to glance back at the cassette to see what gear I’m in.

The front self trims as you move thru a cassette, something I have to pay attention to on my 9 spd. systems. No big deal just nice.

My 5800 front shifter was as good as any front I’ve used, the Di2 is even better. Once adjusted you don’t ever drop chains as well going down a ring. Kind of makes you wonder why the move to 1X.

Lot of little things that add up to an opinion from Di2 users that they will never go back.

Last edited by Steve B.; 07-31-18 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 07-31-18, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Tape2012
I have never ridden a bike with Di2, so I have a few questions. Electronic shifting just automates the movement of the RD and FD, correct? Other than tapping the brifters to shift, you just tap a few buttons. I get the advantage of being able to place the shifters anywhere you want on the bars, that would be nice to have. But other than that you still need to reduce chain tension while still pedaling in order to get a smooth shift, correct? So shifting while going uphill or at speed will still cost you a little speed and momentum. With that in mind, how is electronic shifting really any faster or more efficient than a well tuned mechanical shifter?
Your logic is essentially why I went with Etap instead of Di2. I just figured if I was going electric I didn't want the wires/cables.
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Old 07-31-18, 02:25 PM
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My club's Saturday rides have a total of about 50 riders each Saturday. I think about 4 riders use electronic shifting.
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Old 07-31-18, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Tape2012
I have never ridden a bike with Di2, so I have a few questions. Electronic shifting just automates the movement of the RD and FD, correct? Other than tapping the brifters to shift, you just tap a few buttons. I get the advantage of being able to place the shifters anywhere you want on the bars, that would be nice to have. But other than that you still need to reduce chain tension while still pedaling in order to get a smooth shift, correct? So shifting while going uphill or at speed will still cost you a little speed and momentum. With that in mind, how is electronic shifting really any faster or more efficient than a well tuned mechanical shifter?

With Di2 you can configure multi-shifting to limit or not how far you want to go down the cassette...you can swap button functions...shoot you can make brifters function like paddle-shifters if you want. There's also simultaneous shifting so you can get continuous gear ranges if you want it. In addition to no gigantic lever throw, and Di2 just plain doesn't care how wet or muddy it is (unlike mechanical that gets fouled negatively impacting shifting).

These days you can scroll through your garmin screens with Di2 buttons.
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Old 07-31-18, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve B.


At least on the Di2 system, there’s no long’ish lever action, so no need to push as far with the bigger levers to get to larger cogs or big ring. Easy button push and done. On mechanical there are click points as the action allows multiple gears depending on how far you throw the lever, thus there can me miss shifts if you press too far. With electronic, you can hold the button to move the range, do multiple presses quickly to move a few gears, or a simple push for a single gear move, thus no misses, in my experience.

I’ve never needed to reduce chain pressure to shift. The Di2 system claims to shift better under load. I’ve done lots of shifts while standing, never a lag or issue. The rear does a slight overshift on the derailer move ( the way you could on older friction systems) thus gets the chain onto the desired cog quickly. That’s a faster action generally. I actually have to look at my gear indicator to see if the shift happened on my Di2, it’s that quick and silent. Oh, and I get a gearing readout on my Garmin screen. That eliminates needing to glance back at the cassette to see what gear I’m in.

The front self trims as you move thru a cassette, something I have to pay attention to on my 9 spd. systems. No big deal just nice.

My 5800 front shifter was as good as any front I’ve used, the Di2 is even better. Once adjusted you don’t ever drop chains as well going down a ring. Kind of makes you wonder why the move to 1X.

Lot of little things that add up to an opinion from Di2 users that they will never go back.
Thanks for the summary, good info from some who actually uses it. Being a tech junkie, I agree with the statement about never going back so I need to be very sure before taking the original leap.

Now they just need to start producing carbon frames with an outer layer of solar cells to keep the system humming.
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Old 07-31-18, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Tape2012
.
Now they just need to start producing carbon frames with an outer layer of solar cells to keep the system humming.
..and enough to juice lights as well.
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Old 07-31-18, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tape2012
Now they just need to start producing carbon frames with an outer layer of solar cells to keep the system humming.
+1, because charging a battery every 2-3 months is such a hassle.

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Old 07-31-18, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
+1, because charging a battery every 2-3 months is such a hassle.

As with the post above yours, I was thinking about powering more than just the Di2. But feel free to continue your snarky comments, I'm sure there are a few 12 year olds on this forum that find you almost entertaining.

Personally, I use a smartphone for my bike computer and would appreciate a way to make the battery last longer.
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Old 07-31-18, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Tape2012
Thanks for the summary, good info from some who actually uses it. Being a tech junkie, I agree with the statement about never going back so I need to be very sure before taking the original leap.

Now they just need to start producing carbon frames with an outer layer of solar cells to keep the system humming.
I'd always heard that once you ride a Di2 bike you'll never want to go back to mechanical. So I avoided it, even for test rides. My only bike was stolen and the one I was considering to replace it, I could only find in my size in Ultegra Di2. In the whole region. After the test ride, I preferred mechanical, but it wasn't a strong preference. They offered me the bike for the price of Ultegra mech; a year later, I don't ever plan to go back to mechanical either.
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Old 07-31-18, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Tape2012
As with the post above yours, I was thinking about powering more than just the Di2. But feel free to continue your snarky comments, I'm sure there are a few 12 year olds on this forum that find you almost entertaining.

Personally, I use a smartphone for my bike computer and would appreciate a way to make the battery last longer.
build a wheel with a dynamo hub/usb charger.

https://www.cyclingabout.com/best-dy...g-bikepacking/

You're welcome.

Last edited by noodle soup; 07-31-18 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 07-31-18, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
build a wheel with a dynamo hub/usb charger.

https://www.cyclingabout.com/best-dy...g-bikepacking/

You're welcome.
No thank you. With all carbon flexible solar cells being developed, they could be integrated into the bike frame without have to modify any geometry and with the right paint job, nobody could even tell they were there.
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Old 08-01-18, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Tape2012
Personally, I use a smartphone for my bike computer and would appreciate a way to make the battery last longer.
Get a battery stick. $10
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Old 08-01-18, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Tape2012
No thank you. With all carbon flexible solar cells being developed, they could be integrated into the bike frame without have to modify any geometry and with the right paint job, nobody could even tell they were there.
sounds like you have a DIY project.

I doubt most cyclist need/want a solar powered charger for their bike, so very few people would be willing to pay for it
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Old 08-01-18, 08:43 AM
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Can you put it in my rain bike?
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Old 08-01-18, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bruce19
My club's Saturday rides have a total of about 50 riders each Saturday. I think about 4 riders use electronic shifting.
That is very surprising to me. How many are using mechanical Dura-Ace/Red/Record?
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Old 08-01-18, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by oldnslow2
Funny, but my Subaru shifts quicker and gets better MPG with the CVT vs the manual. All modern race cars have electronic shifting.
I don't got none but anyway:
I am somewhat surprised with the electric bicycle shifting systems, that they don't automatically shift all the gears in order for you.
Such as: just have both brifters set up so that (-no matter what front/rear gear you are currently in) you just press [left] to shift to the next-shorter gear, and press [right] to shift to the next-taller gear. And it figures out what front/rear combination it needs to change to, in order to do that.

Having electronic shifting, but to keep it crude where you still need to figure out what chainring/cog you are on, just seems kinda silly to me.
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Old 08-01-18, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug5150
I am somewhat surprised with the electric bicycle shifting systems, that they don't automatically shift all the gears in order for you.
Such as: just have both brifters set up so that (-no matter what front/rear gear you are currently in) you just press [left] to shift to the next-shorter gear, and press [right] to shift to the next-taller gear. And it figures out what front/rear combination it needs to change to, in order to do that.
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Old 08-01-18, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by billyymc
I have a Subaru with CVT and paddle shifters. Paddle shifter just keeps the transmission locked in one pre-set position.

CVTs don't shift.

I think a couple of you are missing the point. You can get a CVT to "mimic" other types of transmissions, but in normal operating mode CVTs do not shift.
Actually, they do. They have ranges (basically pulley sets) in which they continuously vary the ratios, but above and below that, they shift to the next pulley. [source: my GF has a nice spanking new base-model Impreza, and that sucker shifts. It feels different than a traditional AT, but it's not subtle when it flips to the next pulley. And, oh yeah, I hate the thing. It loafs along in the lowest gear automatically, and when you have to stomp it, it actually takes longer to downshift than a traditional AT.]
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Old 08-01-18, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug5150
Having electronic shifting, but to keep it crude where you still need to figure out what chainring/cog you are on, just seems kinda silly to me.
After all, it's just derailleurs with a system of motors and some code to move the chain the same way your muscles do. Mechanical is easy to service. Electronic is great! 100% reliable and once setup, perfect shifts every time. That is until it does not. When that happens, unless you run a full, Level One Diagnostic and have Data around to jack into, you're going to miss a ride... or several.. or just decommission your bike..
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Old 08-01-18, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug5150
I don't got none but anyway:
I am somewhat surprised with the electric bicycle shifting systems, that they don't automatically shift all the gears in order for you.
Such as: just have both brifters set up so that (-no matter what front/rear gear you are currently in) you just press [left] to shift to the next-shorter gear, and press [right] to shift to the next-taller gear. And it figures out what front/rear combination it needs to change to, in order to do that.

Having electronic shifting, but to keep it crude where you still need to figure out what chainring/cog you are on, just seems kinda silly to me.
Shimano has Syncro-shift. And Sram eTap has left downshift and right upshift. It just doesn't also change the chainring. Which is a good point because you don't want to be out of the saddle and have the chainring move as you're applying power.

A bicycle is not like a car where the transmission and engine talk to each other. On a bicycle you need to be in control when you want a to apply torque or have a high cadence. In a car, there's a kickdown and the engine knows to increase the rpm to match.
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