Electronic shifting - interesting observation
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It's good to have an LBS that takes care of you.
#102
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If you're putting it into "manual" mode and simulating a manual transmission by locking the CVT in discrete locations, you're not gaining anything over the MT apart from clutch engage-disengage time... Which isn't likely to affect overall economy much, if at all. The CVT is *only* more efficient than a manual when it's allowed to move freely through all gear ratios and maximize the output dynamically.
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I have used Ultegra Di2 for over 5 yr. I would never buy a bicycle with mechanical shifting again. I changed out the mechanical system myself and sold the Ultegra parts that I removed on ebay. Selling the used parts dramatically reduced the cost. I also found a whole system at a great price on ebay. The newer systems are even better than what I bought.
I never found disc brakes to be too much of an advantage until I rode the Colorado Rockies. Going downhill with conventional brakes required being in the drops with the hands on the brakes all the way down long descents. Disc brakes would perform so much better on long downhill rides.
I never found disc brakes to be too much of an advantage until I rode the Colorado Rockies. Going downhill with conventional brakes required being in the drops with the hands on the brakes all the way down long descents. Disc brakes would perform so much better on long downhill rides.
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In case OP is keeping score: I was on a 6-person group ride yesterday, and the split wound up being 4/2 in favor of electronic.
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I have never ridden a bike with Di2, so I have a few questions. Electronic shifting just automates the movement of the RD and FD, correct? Other than tapping the brifters to shift, you just tap a few buttons. I get the advantage of being able to place the shifters anywhere you want on the bars, that would be nice to have. But other than that you still need to reduce chain tension while still pedaling in order to get a smooth shift, correct? So shifting while going uphill or at speed will still cost you a little speed and momentum. With that in mind, how is electronic shifting really any faster or more efficient than a well tuned mechanical shifter?
#106
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I have never ridden a bike with Di2, so I have a few questions. Electronic shifting just automates the movement of the RD and FD, correct? Other than tapping the brifters to shift, you just tap a few buttons. I get the advantage of being able to place the shifters anywhere you want on the bars, that would be nice to have. But other than that you still need to reduce chain tension while still pedaling in order to get a smooth shift, correct? So shifting while going uphill or at speed will still cost you a little speed and momentum. With that in mind, how is electronic shifting really any faster or more efficient than a well tuned mechanical shifter?
I’ve never needed to reduce chain pressure to shift. The Di2 system claims to shift better under load. I’ve done lots of shifts while standing, never a lag or issue. The rear does a slight overshift on the derailer move ( the way you could on older friction systems) thus gets the chain onto the desired cog quickly. That’s a faster action generally. I actually have to look at my gear indicator to see if the shift happened on my Di2, it’s that quick and silent. Oh, and I get a gearing readout on my Garmin screen. That eliminates needing to glance back at the cassette to see what gear I’m in.
The front self trims as you move thru a cassette, something I have to pay attention to on my 9 spd. systems. No big deal just nice.
My 5800 front shifter was as good as any front I’ve used, the Di2 is even better. Once adjusted you don’t ever drop chains as well going down a ring. Kind of makes you wonder why the move to 1X.
Lot of little things that add up to an opinion from Di2 users that they will never go back.
Last edited by Steve B.; 07-31-18 at 06:04 AM.
#107
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I have never ridden a bike with Di2, so I have a few questions. Electronic shifting just automates the movement of the RD and FD, correct? Other than tapping the brifters to shift, you just tap a few buttons. I get the advantage of being able to place the shifters anywhere you want on the bars, that would be nice to have. But other than that you still need to reduce chain tension while still pedaling in order to get a smooth shift, correct? So shifting while going uphill or at speed will still cost you a little speed and momentum. With that in mind, how is electronic shifting really any faster or more efficient than a well tuned mechanical shifter?
#108
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My club's Saturday rides have a total of about 50 riders each Saturday. I think about 4 riders use electronic shifting.
#109
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I have never ridden a bike with Di2, so I have a few questions. Electronic shifting just automates the movement of the RD and FD, correct? Other than tapping the brifters to shift, you just tap a few buttons. I get the advantage of being able to place the shifters anywhere you want on the bars, that would be nice to have. But other than that you still need to reduce chain tension while still pedaling in order to get a smooth shift, correct? So shifting while going uphill or at speed will still cost you a little speed and momentum. With that in mind, how is electronic shifting really any faster or more efficient than a well tuned mechanical shifter?
With Di2 you can configure multi-shifting to limit or not how far you want to go down the cassette...you can swap button functions...shoot you can make brifters function like paddle-shifters if you want. There's also simultaneous shifting so you can get continuous gear ranges if you want it. In addition to no gigantic lever throw, and Di2 just plain doesn't care how wet or muddy it is (unlike mechanical that gets fouled negatively impacting shifting).
These days you can scroll through your garmin screens with Di2 buttons.
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At least on the Di2 system, there’s no long’ish lever action, so no need to push as far with the bigger levers to get to larger cogs or big ring. Easy button push and done. On mechanical there are click points as the action allows multiple gears depending on how far you throw the lever, thus there can me miss shifts if you press too far. With electronic, you can hold the button to move the range, do multiple presses quickly to move a few gears, or a simple push for a single gear move, thus no misses, in my experience.
I’ve never needed to reduce chain pressure to shift. The Di2 system claims to shift better under load. I’ve done lots of shifts while standing, never a lag or issue. The rear does a slight overshift on the derailer move ( the way you could on older friction systems) thus gets the chain onto the desired cog quickly. That’s a faster action generally. I actually have to look at my gear indicator to see if the shift happened on my Di2, it’s that quick and silent. Oh, and I get a gearing readout on my Garmin screen. That eliminates needing to glance back at the cassette to see what gear I’m in.
The front self trims as you move thru a cassette, something I have to pay attention to on my 9 spd. systems. No big deal just nice.
My 5800 front shifter was as good as any front I’ve used, the Di2 is even better. Once adjusted you don’t ever drop chains as well going down a ring. Kind of makes you wonder why the move to 1X.
Lot of little things that add up to an opinion from Di2 users that they will never go back.
Now they just need to start producing carbon frames with an outer layer of solar cells to keep the system humming.
#113
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As with the post above yours, I was thinking about powering more than just the Di2. But feel free to continue your snarky comments, I'm sure there are a few 12 year olds on this forum that find you almost entertaining.
Personally, I use a smartphone for my bike computer and would appreciate a way to make the battery last longer.
Personally, I use a smartphone for my bike computer and would appreciate a way to make the battery last longer.
#114
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Thanks for the summary, good info from some who actually uses it. Being a tech junkie, I agree with the statement about never going back so I need to be very sure before taking the original leap.
Now they just need to start producing carbon frames with an outer layer of solar cells to keep the system humming.
Now they just need to start producing carbon frames with an outer layer of solar cells to keep the system humming.
#115
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As with the post above yours, I was thinking about powering more than just the Di2. But feel free to continue your snarky comments, I'm sure there are a few 12 year olds on this forum that find you almost entertaining.
Personally, I use a smartphone for my bike computer and would appreciate a way to make the battery last longer.
Personally, I use a smartphone for my bike computer and would appreciate a way to make the battery last longer.
https://www.cyclingabout.com/best-dy...g-bikepacking/
You're welcome.
Last edited by noodle soup; 07-31-18 at 09:17 PM.
#116
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build a wheel with a dynamo hub/usb charger.
https://www.cyclingabout.com/best-dy...g-bikepacking/
You're welcome.
https://www.cyclingabout.com/best-dy...g-bikepacking/
You're welcome.
#117
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#118
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I doubt most cyclist need/want a solar powered charger for their bike, so very few people would be willing to pay for it
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Can you put it in my rain bike?
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I am somewhat surprised with the electric bicycle shifting systems, that they don't automatically shift all the gears in order for you.
Such as: just have both brifters set up so that (-no matter what front/rear gear you are currently in) you just press [left] to shift to the next-shorter gear, and press [right] to shift to the next-taller gear. And it figures out what front/rear combination it needs to change to, in order to do that.
Having electronic shifting, but to keep it crude where you still need to figure out what chainring/cog you are on, just seems kinda silly to me.
#122
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I am somewhat surprised with the electric bicycle shifting systems, that they don't automatically shift all the gears in order for you.
Such as: just have both brifters set up so that (-no matter what front/rear gear you are currently in) you just press [left] to shift to the next-shorter gear, and press [right] to shift to the next-taller gear. And it figures out what front/rear combination it needs to change to, in order to do that.
Such as: just have both brifters set up so that (-no matter what front/rear gear you are currently in) you just press [left] to shift to the next-shorter gear, and press [right] to shift to the next-taller gear. And it figures out what front/rear combination it needs to change to, in order to do that.
#123
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I have a Subaru with CVT and paddle shifters. Paddle shifter just keeps the transmission locked in one pre-set position.
CVTs don't shift.
I think a couple of you are missing the point. You can get a CVT to "mimic" other types of transmissions, but in normal operating mode CVTs do not shift.
CVTs don't shift.
I think a couple of you are missing the point. You can get a CVT to "mimic" other types of transmissions, but in normal operating mode CVTs do not shift.
#124
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After all, it's just derailleurs with a system of motors and some code to move the chain the same way your muscles do. Mechanical is easy to service. Electronic is great! 100% reliable and once setup, perfect shifts every time. That is until it does not. When that happens, unless you run a full, Level One Diagnostic and have Data around to jack into, you're going to miss a ride... or several.. or just decommission your bike..
#125
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I don't got none but anyway:
I am somewhat surprised with the electric bicycle shifting systems, that they don't automatically shift all the gears in order for you.
Such as: just have both brifters set up so that (-no matter what front/rear gear you are currently in) you just press [left] to shift to the next-shorter gear, and press [right] to shift to the next-taller gear. And it figures out what front/rear combination it needs to change to, in order to do that.
Having electronic shifting, but to keep it crude where you still need to figure out what chainring/cog you are on, just seems kinda silly to me.
I am somewhat surprised with the electric bicycle shifting systems, that they don't automatically shift all the gears in order for you.
Such as: just have both brifters set up so that (-no matter what front/rear gear you are currently in) you just press [left] to shift to the next-shorter gear, and press [right] to shift to the next-taller gear. And it figures out what front/rear combination it needs to change to, in order to do that.
Having electronic shifting, but to keep it crude where you still need to figure out what chainring/cog you are on, just seems kinda silly to me.
A bicycle is not like a car where the transmission and engine talk to each other. On a bicycle you need to be in control when you want a to apply torque or have a high cadence. In a car, there's a kickdown and the engine knows to increase the rpm to match.