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Shimano 105 5800, upgrade to what?

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Shimano 105 5800, upgrade to what?

Old 08-08-18, 06:03 PM
  #51  
TimothyH
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I own both 5800 mechanical and 6870 Di2.

I maintain my mechanical system scrupulously. I'm amazed at how well a 105 groupset can perform when set up correctly but Di2 is better in every way.

Di2 shifts faster, especially in the rear. Shift speed can be programmed - slow, medium and fast. Using the default medium setting, the motor flicks the rear derailleur to the next gear very quickly, certainly faster than overcoming cable and spring tension in a mechanical system. When pedaling slow it takes a moment for the chain to wrap the next sprocket but when pedaling fast and under power the chain hits the next sprocket hard. It is almost instantaneous. Front shifting is a little slower than the rear but still as fast or faster than mechanical.

Auto trim is another feature which I love. The FD trims automatically, on its own. It is dead accurate, every single time. A little part of me smiles every time I hear the FD do this. I don't even think about trimming.

As for accuracy, there is no barrel adjuster with Di2 because it doesn't need it. It never needs adjusting. It hits the gear perfectly, dead accurate, from the moment it is set up, and runs silently every single time. If there is noise then the chain needs lube or is worn or something else is wrong.

My system is ridden hard on gravel and has needed absolutely nothing. I hose it off, replace the chain once in a while, charge it when we change the clocks and beat the crap out of it.

Mechanical is like a typewriter and Di2 is like a computer keyboard. Yeah, both get the job done but which would you rather use?

The benefits of Di2 can't be fully appreciated by pedaling around the LBS parking lot. It has to be ridden, hard - climbing, sprinting, etc.


-Tim-
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Old 08-08-18, 06:27 PM
  #52  
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On Di2 shifting speed-

I have drivetrains that are between 1 and 40 years old. Indexed, friction, road, mountain- all of em. 2x7, 3x7, 3x9, 2x9, 2x11- all of em.
I just havent been in a position where i thought "boy, i needed that rear shift to happen .005 seconds sooner!"

I have continually found that my standards compared to many here are very low. This seems to be another one of those times. I guess its for the best because its helped save me $ from wanting to go Di2.
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Old 08-08-18, 06:41 PM
  #53  
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This thread is missing pics
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Old 08-09-18, 08:36 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Athens80 View Post
Just noting ... the OP is talking about upgrading the bike they bought two months ago. You're upgrading a truck you bought two years ago. The talk here would trend differently if the bike had two years' wear on it.
I do see where someone looking to do a major component upgrade after 2 months probably should of done some more homework before they bought though. My bike is 5 years old and I spend countless hours doing research and reading this forum before making a decision.
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Old 08-09-18, 09:55 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Rock71 View Post
I do see where someone looking to do a major component upgrade after 2 months probably should of done some more homework before they bought though. My bike is 5 years old and I spend countless hours doing research and reading this forum before making a decision.
There is something to be said for buying the right bike the first time ..... but some folks have money to burn and enjoy the feel of "customizing" their bikes.

I am like you---i compare a dozen bikes, winnow through the pack, get it down to three, then two versions each of two, then two .... but I enjoy that. Also ... this guy might have taken what the bike shop sold him.

New rider (he's only had the bike two months and it is his first) I think any decent bike shop employee would be honest and smart to sell him 105. Good for the shop, good for the rider.
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Old 08-09-18, 10:01 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Rock71 View Post
I do see where someone looking to do a major component upgrade after 2 months probably should of done some more homework before they bought though. My bike is 5 years old and I spend countless hours doing research and reading this forum before making a decision.
You're doing it wrong. BF etiquette is to make a completely uninformed, gut-based expensive purchase (either a bike or an upgrade for an existing bike) and then come here to ask whether you got a good deal or not after the fact.
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Old 08-09-18, 10:25 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
If you are bent on getting it, go ahead ... You might need to drill holes in the frame, so check out that first, but otherwise ... I am pretty sure you can make it work.
Aren't all Cannondale CAAD12's Di2 ready? So far I've read that Cannondale doesn't provide a kit with the grommets and plugs. So you will have to get some separately. But some pics of the frame show that they have drillings for both Di2 and mechanical:



Edit: Was reading a bit about it here: https://forums.roadbikereview.com/can...ml#post5025285

Last edited by ptempel; 08-09-18 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 08-09-18, 05:04 PM
  #58  
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FWIW, I updated from 5800 to Di2 8050 after 2 seasons on a Chinese carbon, whose frame was Di2 ready. Glad I did, it was expensive.

I kept the crank, b-bracket, cassette and brakes.

I did a lot of shopping for the best prices, at the time (December thru January this past) I found the dollar not doing all that great at the British on-line dealers. The cheapest I found was at Texas Cyclesport and it ran me just about a $1000, including changing brake cables as I had the bar tape off and had to replace that anyway.

I ride Ultegra 9 spd. on my Soma and prefer Di2 in every way, possibly the single biggest is not having to swing the larger brake levers to move to larger cogs or big ring. It's just easier on my hands, which have seen 40+ years of hard manual labor. I didn't think that would be a game changer, but just the ease of pushing a button and having a perfect shift, every time was worth it.
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Old 08-09-18, 07:32 PM
  #59  
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If nothing else, this thread is generating a lot of information about day-to-day riding with DI2 versus mechanical.
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Old 08-13-18, 11:23 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
On camera forums, when someone asks what they should get next, 95% of the time the correct answer is "if you have to ask, you need to shoot more (with what you have) until your need/want becomes apparent." The same often applies to bikes.
That is a great answer.
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Old 08-13-18, 11:38 AM
  #61  
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You mention "Got a Cannondale CAAD12 105 not too long ago, didn't know how much I would enjoy cycling, so went and bought myself some sweet wheels recently - Zipp 404 Firecrest"

I have to ask how serious and committed are you at this point to cycling. If you are or plan on getting into it competitively, you might want to consider another bike since it appears the monetary issue isn't an obstacle( Zipp wheel set and considering a Di2/etap conversion) Your post struck a note with me since I recently jumped into cycling, picked up a lightly used CAAD 10, Shimano 105 grouppo, and upgraded to Ultegra alloys and Ultegra rim brakes which made a huge difference.

I'm in season two and just riding the hell out of this current setup and loving it. If money isn't an issue, go for the Ultegra upgrade. I personally would just get another bike with significant upgrades in weight and performance, keeping the CAAD 10 for a trainer and/or workout bike.
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Old 08-13-18, 12:46 PM
  #62  
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I have the same bike

Its perfect dont upgrade anything unless your racing very seriously.

Originally Posted by Dubadai View Post
Hi everyone,

Got a Cannondale CAAD12 105 not too long ago, didn't know how much I would enjoy cycling, so went and bought myself som sweet wheels recently - Zipp 404 Firecrest.

Now, I was looking for the next upgrade to my bike.

I have been looking at SRAM eTap, but I'm unsure of how its gonna fit on my bike without changing other gear (want to use eTap with Shimano cassette, brakes, as well as the Cannondale Si w/ FSA rings crankset).

The alternative to eTap would be to upgrade to Ultra Di2, the newer version. Both would cost me about 1400usd. Or do you guys think its a silly update to do?

The final alternative would be to sell my CAAD12 and buy something with a better group set from the start...

What are your thoughts? eTap, Ultegra Di2, or sell bike and buy something with Ultegra or such from the start.
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Old 08-13-18, 01:03 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Dubadai View Post
Hi everyone,

Got a Cannondale CAAD12 105 not too long ago, didn't know how much I would enjoy cycling, so went and bought myself som sweet wheels recently - Zipp 404 Firecrest.

Now, I was looking for the next upgrade to my bike.

I have been looking at SRAM eTap, but I'm unsure of how its gonna fit on my bike without changing other gear (want to use eTap with Shimano cassette, brakes, as well as the Cannondale Si w/ FSA rings crankset).

The alternative to eTap would be to upgrade to Ultra Di2, the newer version. Both would cost me about 1400usd. Or do you guys think its a silly update to do?

The final alternative would be to sell my CAAD12 and buy something with a better group set from the start...

What are your thoughts? eTap, Ultegra Di2, or sell bike and buy something with Ultegra or such from the start.
If you're a brand new rider I wouldn't worry about things like Di2 and carbon wheels, just ride your bike.
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Old 08-13-18, 01:43 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Ladeef View Post
If you're a brand new rider I wouldn't worry about things like Di2 and carbon wheels, just ride your bike.
nah, let him keep dumping money into it. This time next year one of us will be buying it for a tiny fraction of what the OP paid. And why not get the best bike possible, with all the bells and whistles?

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Old 08-13-18, 02:11 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
nah, let him keep dumping money into it. This time next year one of us will be buying it for a tiny fraction of what the OP paid. And why not get the best bike possible, with all the bells and whistles?

I used to feel the same way when I would see threads like this, but now I see it a little different.
Some people try something new to them, and buy a entry level product. After a short time, they realize they love the activity and want a top notch version of the product. Sometimes high end products are a detriment to the beginner, but in this case it won’t be a problem.

Does the OP need the best components? Probably not, but they won’t detract from his enjoyment either. If a beginner skier uses a set of pro-level race skis, it’s going to detract from their experience, but upgrading to Di2 isn’t going to do that. In fact Di2 might help a beginner more than an advanced rider.
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Old 08-13-18, 02:23 PM
  #66  
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Some people like to buy a new bike, others are more about upgrading and customizing, while others yet, like to ride their bikes into a pile of grimy dust. IMHO it's all good so long as there's pedaling involved.

You should put into and onto your bike what you want... or not. Just keep pedaling. Anyway, unless you're a Cat 3 or better racer, bike weight isn't the real issue... it's the motor you put on it that's going to make the biggest diff (but you seem to already know this). With that said, if you can afford to buy into a better weight class—do it—especially if it keeps you pedaling, but also keep in mind that every 3000 calories burned is roughly a pound of fat lost... and that will only cost you time and some suffering. So if the upgrades keep you in the saddle, your purchases will pay dividends.

On a side note; I personally love seeing bikes get recycled and upgraded. Too many decent frames get tossed out well before their time, and the CAAD's are badass alloys so it'd be a shame to abandon it. I still have my trusty Trek Alpha Series 1000 which is getting some upgrades despite my current road warrior being a '16 Synapse with Ultegra 6800 & 8000 components... which is also slated for some higher end upgrades (wheels plz). I intend to use my old Trek as a commuter (too old for most thieves to consider stealing) but also purchase a high-end-carbon-aero-racer for the days I ride with my buddies whom compete in official races. These guys pull major watts so I'll do whatever I can to try to stay on their wheels. Since I've already got my body weight down to a respectable level, it's time to put my bikes on a diet.
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Old 08-13-18, 02:37 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by CyberGolem View Post
Some people like to buy a new bike, others are more about upgrading and customizing,

You should put into and onto your bike what you want... or not. Just keep pedaling. Anyway, unless you're a Cat 3 or better racer, bike weight isn't the real issue... it's the motor you put on it that's going to make the biggest diff (but you seem to already know this). With that said, if you can afford to buy into a better weight class—do it—especially if it keeps you pedaling, but also keep in mind that every 3000 calories burned is roughly a pound of fat lost... and that will only cost you time and some suffering. So if the upgrades keep you in the saddle, your purchases will pay dividends.
Why not lose weight, gain fitness, and ride a lighter/better shifting bike?
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Old 08-13-18, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Why not lose weight, gain fitness, and ride a lighter/better shifting bike?
That's the crux of what I'm saying... "All or nothing... whatever works".
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Old 08-13-18, 04:10 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by CyberGolem View Post
That's the crux of what I'm saying... "All or nothing... whatever works".
but that’s not what you said. You made it sound like only mid to high level racers would benefit from a lighter bike(or Di2 in this case).

The bicycle weight issue isn’t worth discussing here, but Di2 benefits most performance type cyclists. Mechanical Dura-Ace works great, but Di2 works better, and beginners benefit from it even more than cyclists with decades of experience.
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Old 08-13-18, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
but that’s not what you said. You made it sound like only mid to high level racers would benefit from a lighter bike(or Di2 in this case).

The bicycle weight issue isn’t worth discussing here, but Di2 benefits most performance type cyclists. Mechanical Dura-Ace works great, but Di2 works better, and beginners benefit from it even more than cyclists with decades of experience.
Yes, you are correct, I did originally say that—but that wasn't my response to you. You wrote, "Why not lose weight, gain fitness, and ride a lighter/better shifting bike?"... in which case I was agreeing with you because that's what I originally wrote as well. In short, "Buy what you want, when you want". In the original message I was stating—at least for an intermediate bike like a CAAD with 150 components—performance gains from bike dieting is not a guarantee for performance gains. I was only addressing weight, not shifting performance. Here's the scenario I had in mind:
  • Shaving 200 grams on a 120 km ride for an experienced rider that weighs 11 stone/154 lb, standing 172 cm would likely show a performance benefit. Especially if there's a moderate amount of climbing involved.
  • If that same rider is a beginner on the same route but tips the scales at 16.5 stone/231 lbs, then a bike that weighs even half as much wouldn't make much of a difference, butthat shouldn't stop anyone from getting lighter parts if they want them.

Dubadaicould be an athletic cardio superstar, so my opinion on performance might not apply to him. Okay, that's fine. Just to be clear, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's intelligent enough to parse info. Given he's a beginner though there are considerations about this sport he might not be aware of, so I was simply sharing my thoughts (pros & cons). My original message stands that whatever keeps him riding is what's important, whether it's upgrading, buying a whole new bike or ignoring every part of the bike that's fallen off, but expectations about performance gains should also be considered. It could save him some money and heartache.

An addendum to my original message would involve safety as well, since a purchase made in haste and excitement for something lighter and brighter could be dangerous (i.e. deep section rims in windy conditions whilst bombing a 6% grade, exceeding speeds of 80 kph/ 50 mph isn't safe for even advanced riders). Not buying the correct brake pads for carbon wheels is another. Sock length? Unless riding through shallow growths of poison oak, not very important despite the online rhetoric.

Anyway, I'm guessing this type of discourse isn't what anyone here wants to read, so I'm pulling the proverbial ripcord to leave this at whatever state you elect for it. Still chill. ~cheers
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Old 08-16-18, 11:27 AM
  #71  
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I have read most of this thread... I am amazed he bought carbon wheels after two months of riding.. I cant convince my wife that I need carbon wheels and I have been riding for years.
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Old 08-16-18, 01:58 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by RidingMatthew View Post
I have read most of this thread... I am amazed he bought carbon wheels after two months of riding.. I cant convince my wife that I need carbon wheels and I have been riding for years.
Yeah, I can't even convince myself that I need carbon wheels.
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Old 08-17-18, 09:36 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by RidingMatthew View Post
I cant convince my wife that I need carbon wheels and I have been riding for years.
Does she have to get your permission to make purchases?
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Old 08-17-18, 10:09 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Does she have to get your permission to make purchases?
for something as expensive as carbon wheels yeah. we talk about most purchases together.
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Old 08-17-18, 10:20 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by RidingMatthew View Post
for something as expensive as carbon wheels yeah. we talk about most purchases together.
Clothing, shoes, and handbag purchases add up. I'm not saying your wife makes ridiculous amounts of purchases of personal items like this, but it adds up.

Good CF wheelsets don't need to cost a fortune.
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