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Got dropped today, still had fun. You guys are good!

Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

Got dropped today, still had fun. You guys are good!

Old 08-29-18, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by robbyville View Post


hmmm well I donít know about that. I can tell you that I was able to hold on yesterday for about a mile and a half between 26-30mph I donít think that my Watts were above 280 while sitting in but I could be wrong. I also know my ftp is 237 and the only time I hit 300-400 Watts is when standing or sprinting!
Only in forums do you got a group of 50 year olds riding 27mph. Even at 5-7 miles I don't think it would be sustainable. Because that's not just endurance that's a significant amount of watts for a certain period. 400 watts is pro level understand?
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Old 08-29-18, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
Wasn't meant to contradict, I agree with you. Just pointing out that even 'reduced' you can still be fast as **** when older. But yea I'm sure this guy was a faster sprinter earlier in his life, I think he was a track racer of some sort.
Watching the match sprints at Masters Nats., even though many of them are slower than in their youth, they have a very refined sense of tactics and timing. Sprint Night is always worth the ticket price. It is always fun riding with good riders.
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Old 08-29-18, 11:53 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by MyTi View Post
Only in forums do you got a group of 50 year olds riding 27mph. Even at 5-7 miles I don't think it would be sustainable. Because that's not just endurance that's a significant amount of watts for a certain period. 400 watts is pro level understand?
Ahem. Not only in forums, but in Sacramento:. https://www.strava.com/activities/1555946893/overview I am 51. Every rider in this race was over 45; many were over 50, including most of the top 10. None of us are pros. Finished 28 out of 63, so pack fodder, nothing to write home about.

Also, it doesn’t take 400 watts to go 27mph in a big group of strong riders (although it does take a bit of skill and experience).

Last edited by caloso; 08-29-18 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 08-30-18, 04:15 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post


Ahem. Not only in forums, but in Sacramento:. https://www.strava.com/activities/1555946893/overview I am 51. Every rider in this race was over 45; many were over 50, including most of the top 10. None of us are pros. Finished 28 out of 63, so pack fodder, nothing to write home about.

Also, it doesnít take 400 watts to go 27mph in a big group of strong riders (although it does take a bit of skill and experience).
Something with watts tells me more than average speed. 200 watts and up is still not something I would see a typical 50 year old and up person maintaining for a long period. Tour riders stay around 200-300 watts on a long tour stage. And some of the figures in here doesn't make much sense. I have found in most forums in regards to average speed everything is exaggerated and I usually just sit back and chuckle and don't say anything. The OP says he doesn't even have a computer let alone power meter so that would make sense. Strava link don't work you need an account I guess. I don't use Strava.

Any ways aside from the numbers being thrown around here that I find suspiciously pro, I like the OP's attitude. I just feel the numbers here are slightly(well largely) inflated like most average speed threads...that's all I'm saying.
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Old 08-30-18, 04:57 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by MyTi View Post
Something with watts tells me more than average speed. 200 watts and up is still not something I would see a typical 50 year old and up person maintaining for a long period. Tour riders stay around 200-300 watts on a long tour stage. And some of the figures in here doesn't make much sense. I have found in most forums in regards to average speed everything is exaggerated and I usually just sit back and chuckle and don't say anything. The OP says he doesn't even have a computer let alone power meter so that would make sense. Strava link don't work you need an account I guess. I don't use Strava.

Any ways aside from the numbers being thrown around here that I find suspiciously pro, I like the OP's attitude. I just feel the numbers here are slightly(well largely) inflated like most average speed threads...that's all I'm saying.
"Typical" people of any age don't maintain 200+ watts for a long period. There are a lot who can. I know some of them myself.
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Old 08-30-18, 05:34 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by MyTi View Post
Something with watts tells me more than average speed. 200 watts and up is still not something I would see a typical 50 year old and up person maintaining for a long period. Tour riders stay around 200-300 watts on a long tour stage. And some of the figures in here doesn't make much sense. I have found in most forums in regards to average speed everything is exaggerated and I usually just sit back and chuckle and don't say anything. The OP says he doesn't even have a computer let alone power meter so that would make sense. Strava link don't work you need an account I guess. I don't use Strava.

Any ways aside from the numbers being thrown around here that I find suspiciously pro, I like the OP's attitude. I just feel the numbers here are slightly(well largely) inflated like most average speed threads...that's all I'm saying.
Nobody in here is sustaining 27mph on their own. I think you underestimate the speed gain from riding in a paceline or pack.

Also...when you're hauling ass like that, 5 miles is just over ten minutes.
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Old 08-30-18, 06:09 AM
  #32  
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Argh, I went straight when I should have turned while at the front of a group ride, they not only went on without me but went faster as punishment (instead of 25-26 they were hammering near 30mph). Tried SUPER hard to catch, only could when they soft pedaled out of pity and got stopped at a light, 12 miles later...

It happens to everyone, also 27mph solo isn't crazy, if someone has a TT setup and a favorable wind it's not incredibly unreasonable to hold that for a bit.
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Old 08-30-18, 06:22 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by MyTi View Post
Something with watts tells me more than average speed. 200 watts and up is still not something I would see a typical 50 year old and up person maintaining for a long period. Tour riders stay around 200-300 watts on a long tour stage. And some of the figures in here doesn't make much sense. I have found in most forums in regards to average speed everything is exaggerated and I usually just sit back and chuckle and don't say anything. The OP says he doesn't even have a computer let alone power meter so that would make sense. Strava link don't work you need an account I guess. I don't use Strava.

Any ways aside from the numbers being thrown around here that I find suspiciously pro, I like the OP's attitude. I just feel the numbers here are slightly(well largely) inflated like most average speed threads...that's all I'm saying.
Lemme help you with that -



Have you ridden in a group? You don't need to maintain 400w the entire time, you need to maintain 400w (or whatever) during the time that you rotate through the front. Sitting in the pack, the power requirement is much lower.
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Old 08-30-18, 06:37 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by MyTi View Post
Only in forums do you got a group of 50 year olds riding 27mph. Even at 5-7 miles I don't think it would be sustainable. Because that's not just endurance that's a significant amount of watts for a certain period. 400 watts is pro level understand?
of course I understand, Iím not a moron... Iíve been riding off and on for a very long time. And although Iíve only been working and training with power for a few years I have a pretty good handle on how it works. All Iím saying is what I witness at least for the few minutes that I can hold on to every week. No exaggeration, no disengenuous intent.

But, like you say, this is about the OP and loving the sport along with riding with new friends. Debating speeds and power can be done on another thread. Enjoy your day, Iím off to our Thursday Ride where if Iím lucky iíll Stick with the front end of our group for the first 10 miles before dropping off its good to have a goal!
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Old 08-30-18, 06:47 AM
  #35  
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Some of you guys are making it sound like once you're over 40, you have to sit up and soft pedal. Maintaining over 200 watts for an hour + is not uncommon at all for guys in their late 40s to 60. My club has an average age of 52. Our A group averages in the 220-240 watt range for an hour. Not racers, just regular guys with regular jobs... riding 3-5 days/week.

Most of the guys in my club are faster now then when they were in their 30s. Middle age guys tend to have better control fo their schedules. We are willing to get up at 5am (because we didn't just get home) to get in the miles, etc.

Unless, there's a specific health reason, there's no reason you can't keep getting faster well into your 50s. Well... unless you were already fast as **** in your 30 and 40s ;-)
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Old 08-30-18, 09:36 AM
  #36  
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Anyhoo.........

OP, you're doing it right. Riding with stronger riders is a time-honored method of getting stronger yourself. Don't worry about getting dropped. EVERYBODY, and I mean everybody, has been dropped at one time or another. The thing to do is go back the next week with the goal of hanging on a little farther, then a little farther the week after that. Soon enough, you'll be riding the whole way. Watch the strong, smooth riders and watch how they stay out of the wind, hold a wheel, fill a gap, etc. You will get it.
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Old 08-30-18, 09:56 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by CoogansBluff View Post
I'm new to road biking and did my first group rides last week. Did 4 of them, in fact. So I'm jumping right in. What got me to this point was riding a hybrid on flat greenways for 4-hour rides, but going slowly (13 mph).

Today, I did a group ride that was 46 miles for 15-17 mph riders. I had done a 42-mile group ride last week with another group and averaged 16 mph, or so I was told by another participant. I don't have any devices yet. (Keep in mind that I'm now on a road bike,not the old hybrid, so I'm getting speed from that.)

Today's group was going about 17 (again, second-hand reporting), and I started losing a little speed at the 25-mile mark, and soon I was on my own, lucky to have a cue sheet and iPhone. There was a slower group behind, so I wasn't worried about getting lost. I made it to the finish eventually. Was probably going 14 mph by then.

My reaction to all this is to say that you folks who can ride 45 miles and maintain speeds of 17 mph are damn good! Especially the middle-aged crowd like myself. But I don't care who you are. Most of these people I've met are very modest about it. They tell me there are much better/faster riders than them out there, and I realize that's true. But it's takes some work and dedication and some other good qualities to get to that 'modest' level. So I'm giving those folks a tip of my helmet. Inspires me to keep at it so I can hang in there a little longer next time and the time after that.
Sounds to me like your doing great. Only advice I can give is look at your cadence and what gears your riding in and a little change could make a huge difference.
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Old 08-30-18, 10:48 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Rock71 View Post
Sounds to me like your doing great. Only advice I can give is look at your cadence and what gears your riding in and a little change could make a huge difference.
Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Anyhoo.........

OP, you're doing it right. Riding with stronger riders is a time-honored method of getting stronger yourself. Don't worry about getting dropped. EVERYBODY, and I mean everybody, has been dropped at one time or another. The thing to do is go back the next week with the goal of hanging on a little farther, then a little farther the week after that. Soon enough, you'll be riding the whole way. Watch the strong, smooth riders and watch how they stay out of the wind, hold a wheel, fill a gap, etc. You will get it.
Yes, definitely some technique stuff I need to figure out. I coast and brake more than most, it seems. Seems that I'm having to slow up not to overrun people going down hill, then not always the strongest getting back up. That might be technique, or might just be that I just need to get better on the hills. I've spent most of the past year on a flat rails-to-trails greenway. But maintaining the speed is probably a bigger issue for me. On those greenways, I haven't pushed myself to go fast for long.
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Old 08-30-18, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by CoogansBluff View Post
Yes, definitely some technique stuff I need to figure out. I coast and brake more than most, it seems. Seems that I'm having to slow up not to overrun people going down hill, then not always the strongest getting back up. That might be technique, or might just be that I just need to get better on the hills. I've spent most of the past year on a flat rails-to-trails greenway. But maintaining the speed is probably a bigger issue for me. On those greenways, I haven't pushed myself to go fast for long.
With no computer, it's hard to do intervals on flat ground and it's easy to just cruise around at a middling effort. Hills make it easier to naturally go hard-recover-hard-recover.
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Old 08-30-18, 10:57 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Anyhoo.........

OP, you're doing it right. Riding with stronger riders is a time-honored method of getting stronger yourself. Don't worry about getting dropped. EVERYBODY, and I mean everybody, has been dropped at one time or another. The thing to do is go back the next week with the goal of hanging on a little farther, then a little farther the week after that. Soon enough, you'll be riding the whole way. Watch the strong, smooth riders and watch how they stay out of the wind, hold a wheel, fill a gap, etc. You will get it.
My concern/stress with riding with stronger riders is when it comes my time to take a pull at the front. I generally can't do as long a pull as the stronger riders and I don't want them thinking I'm not doing my part. Plus when I'm moving over to the side to let the group move up, I find I have to work hard (sometimes) to get back on the peloton because my legs are gassed. Not to mention having to build up confidence in riding in a pack and trusting those around you.
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Old 08-30-18, 10:59 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by NoWhammies View Post
My concern/stress with riding with stronger riders is when it comes my time to take a pull at the front. I generally can't do as long a pull as the stronger riders and I don't want them thinking I'm not doing my part. Plus when I'm moving over to the side to let the group move up, I find I have to work hard (sometimes) to get back on the peloton because my legs are gassed. Not to mention having to build up confidence in riding in a pack and trusting those around you.
Stronger riders I've ridden with have always understood that newcomers can't pull as long, or even at all in the beginning. As long as you're doing what you can, and not just sitting in and then sprinting to the town limit sign and bragging you won, don't worry about that.
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Old 08-30-18, 11:16 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
Stronger riders I've ridden with have always understood that newcomers can't pull as long, or even at all in the beginning. As long as you're doing what you can, and not just sitting in and then sprinting to the town limit sign and bragging you won, don't worry about that.
Exactly. I would say that experienced riders would prefer you stay out of the rotation until you get stronger. It keeps things smoother, which keeps everything together. And yeah, don't contest the sprint if you didn't pull.
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Old 08-30-18, 12:16 PM
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Agreed, nobody in our group expects me to pull for much longer than a minute when going quickly. The slower folks that I go back to when I get dropped by the faster ones expect far more of course

Op, one technique that may be of help when dealing with slowing down, speeding up, etc in a pace line is to never stop peddling. Even when slowing or applying the brakes a little keep soft peddling at least so that if there is a slingshot effect where the people in front of you start to accelerate you'll be ready for it and not fall off (which causes you to work much harder to get back on of course). I know it sounds like a small thing but it's helped me immensely to ensure that I'm ready for accelerations, and not get dropped due to slowing down momentarily for stop signs, regrouping, etc.

Keep on trucking!
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Old 08-30-18, 01:19 PM
  #44  
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OP Just keep at er! It was my first time riding with various groups this year to.

The group I normally ride with is held by LBS and they splits into a few groups. A group which avg 34km/h and a B group who avg 30 km/h and a sweeper group. The first time I rode them, I started with B group, till pretty much the end. Then on the last group ride I tried out A group, I surprise myself that I was able to hang on w/ that group w/o being dropped. I'm sort of disappointed that I didn't join them sooner.


Originally Posted by caloso View Post
And yeah, don't contest the sprint if you didn't pull.
But true sprinter 'never' have to pull
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Old 08-30-18, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by firebird854 View Post
Argh, I went straight when I should have turned while at the front of a group ride, they not only went on without me but went faster as punishment (instead of 25-26 they were hammering near 30mph). Tried SUPER hard to catch, only could when they soft pedaled out of pity and got stopped at a light, 12 miles later...

It happens to everyone, also 27mph solo isn't crazy, if someone has a TT setup and a favorable wind it's not incredibly unreasonable to hold that for a bit.
Ok 27mph 50 year old cyclists lol. Were up at 30mph as well. Waiting for guys to claim 35mph sitting in on flats.
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Old 08-30-18, 01:43 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by CoogansBluff View Post
My reaction to all this is to say that you folks who can ride 45 miles and maintain speeds of 17 mph are damn good! Especially the middle-aged crowd like myself. But I don't care who you are. Most of these people I've met are very modest about it. They tell me there are much better/faster riders than them out there, and I realize that's true. But it's takes some work and dedication and some other good qualities to get to that 'modest' level. So I'm giving those folks a tip of my helmet. Inspires me to keep at it so I can hang in there a little longer next time and the time after that.
You've got a good attitude. So many people who ride never reach even one of those points you make: always someone faster, always hard work involved, and people at all levels of riding get dropped at some point.

I kind of like seeing a faster rider get by me, it's neat to see the ability in action. It can be motivation to improve, or just simply admiration and entertainment. Kind of like I love hearing a Corvette rev up. I'll never own one, but can certainly appreciate one!

Especially once you race, even race at low levels. It's like freaking human thoroughbreds around you on race day seeing the Cat P/1/2 guys in the parking lot with you warming up as a lowly Cat 5. While I'm just some mule, lol.
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Old 08-30-18, 02:07 PM
  #47  
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So not to hijack the thread (but I think it still applies to the OP) what's that best way to self-seat with group rides? For example the LBS will host weekend/weekday rides. There are two or three different groups. Slow, medium, fast and those groups do different distances.

Say you want to ride fast, but the fast group is doing a 120km ride. You end up hanging on by your finger tips for 75k before getting shelled off the backend. Yet you could join the medium, who is riding 100k. The group rides a pace that you can hold, but you're not going to get any quicker.

With this in mind, what's the best group to join?
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Old 08-30-18, 02:13 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by CoogansBluff View Post
I'm new to road biking and did my first group rides last week. Did 4 of them, in fact. So I'm jumping right in. What got me to this point was riding a hybrid on flat greenways for 4-hour rides, but going slowly (13 mph).

Today, I did a group ride that was 46 miles for 15-17 mph riders. I had done a 42-mile group ride last week with another group and averaged 16 mph, or so I was told by another participant. I don't have any devices yet. (Keep in mind that I'm now on a road bike,not the old hybrid, so I'm getting speed from that.)

Today's group was going about 17 (again, second-hand reporting), and I started losing a little speed at the 25-mile mark, and soon I was on my own, lucky to have a cue sheet and iPhone. There was a slower group behind, so I wasn't worried about getting lost. I made it to the finish eventually. Was probably going 14 mph by then.

My reaction to all this is to say that you folks who can ride 45 miles and maintain speeds of 17 mph are damn good! Especially the middle-aged crowd like myself. But I don't care who you are. Most of these people I've met are very modest about it. They tell me there are much better/faster riders than them out there, and I realize that's true. But it's takes some work and dedication and some other good qualities to get to that 'modest' level. So I'm giving those folks a tip of my helmet. Inspires me to keep at it so I can hang in there a little longer next time and the time after that.
Good work! Having a growth mindset is one of the greatest determining factors in you getting faster. Your willingness to dive in and be okay with getting dropped will help tremendously in the long run. I remember the point when I went from doing all solo rides to starting with a group and was amazed at how fast some people were. Once we headed uphill and I couldn't hide in a draft the disparity became all the more evident. I also remember seeing people's Strava profiles and thinking that if I rode 10k miles over a few years I'd probably be quite a bit fitter as well. Getting my cockpit lower by flipping my stem and taking some spacers out helped me get more aero and acquire free speed. Getting used to riding hard efforts in the drops to get myself even lower helped a good bit as well. Getting a heart rate monitor and bike computer were great tools to measure my efforts.

Some very simple and effective workouts for me included over under style efforts. Lets say for example 15mph is doable but not easy, and 20mph is tough and can only be sustained for a short time. Try to keep the pace at 15 or so and every 5-10 minutes up the pace to 20mph and then back it down to 15 before you're fully gassed. This helps get the legs used to hard efforts, while also teaching you to recover on the bike. If you can't see your speed then just us an RPE scale of 1-10 for example. Most newer riders usually stay at a moderate pace and could greatly benefit from adding some hard interval style workouts to their week.

Keep at it!
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Old 08-30-18, 02:20 PM
  #49  
caloso
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Originally Posted by MyTi View Post


Ok 27mph 50 year old cyclists lol. Were up at 30mph as well. Waiting for guys to claim 35mph sitting in on flats.


Okay. Week after my 51st birthday. 30mph for 10 minutes on the River Ride. 247w sitting in. Just a terminal Cat 3; Not a pro. (Well, I am a professional, just not at cycling.) Don't know why this is so hard to believe.


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Old 08-30-18, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by NoWhammies View Post
So not to hijack the thread (but I think it still applies to the OP) what's that best way to self-seat with group rides? For example the LBS will host weekend/weekday rides. There are two or three different groups. Slow, medium, fast and those groups do different distances.

Say you want to ride fast, but the fast group is doing a 120km ride. You end up hanging on by your finger tips for 75k before getting shelled off the backend. Yet you could join the medium, who is riding 100k. The group rides a pace that you can hold, but you're not going to get any quicker.

With this in mind, what's the best group to join?
I say keep trying to stick with the A group... if within a few months you still can't hang - then the B group might be better. The other days of the week need to be used to raise your fitness levels. - that's what will get you quicker.
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