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Got dropped today, still had fun. You guys are good!

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Got dropped today, still had fun. You guys are good!

Old 08-30-18, 03:08 PM
  #51  
kevmk81
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yup- i'd agree - i've been on quite a few 30+ mph jaunts on fast training rides - definitely during races. Guys in the front are hurting though. (25ish is "easy" in a pack of riders - even in the front if you're in shape).

ETA: obviously 25 isn't "easy" for 100 miles - certainly not 27 let alone 30

Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Okay. Week after my 51st birthday. 30mph for 10 minutes on the River Ride. 247w sitting in. Just a terminal Cat 3; Not a pro. (Well, I am a professional, just not at cycling.) Don't know why this is so hard to believe.

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Old 08-30-18, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by kevmk81 View Post
I say keep trying to stick with the A group... if within a few months you still can't hang - then the B group might be better. The other days of the week need to be used to raise your fitness levels. - that's what will get you quicker.
What's a good routine? That obviously depends on time that one has to devote to it, and level you want to reach. But I'd want to find the right balance between work and rest/recovery.
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Old 08-30-18, 03:31 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by CoogansBluff View Post
What's a good routine? That obviously depends on time that one has to devote to it, and level you want to reach. But I'd want to find the right balance between work and rest/recovery.
It'll be different for everybody - and what your goals are - i would presume. For me for now, i'm just trying to stay in shape. Next year i might race again. I set a yearly goal in hours and try to hit that. If i can't - no biggie - but i'm usually able to come fairly close. I get up early prior to work and get most of my time that way (family, work, etc... takes the rest of my time) - but again - everyone will be different right? I follow joe friel's cyclist training bible for my weekly, monthly, routines.
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Old 08-30-18, 04:07 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by kevmk81 View Post
I say keep trying to stick with the A group... if within a few months you still can't hang - then the B group might be better. The other days of the week need to be used to raise your fitness levels. - that's what will get you quicker.
Yes, if you feel like you're in between, challenge yourself to do the A ride. Hang on as long as you can. For most riders, myself included, you will be able to push yourself so much harder to hold a wheel than you would do if you were just riding by yourself. If you get dropped, you get dropped. Take a minute to recover, get a drink, and ride tempo home. That's a solid workout, no PM or HRM required.
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Old 08-30-18, 07:10 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by MyTi View Post
Only in forums do you got a group of 50 year olds riding 27mph. Even at 5-7 miles I don't think it would be sustainable. Because that's not just endurance that's a significant amount of watts for a certain period. 400 watts is pro level understand?
It doesn't take 400 watts to ride 27 mph. Many people (that do this sort of thing) can do it at 300w and thereabouts.
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Old 08-30-18, 07:18 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by MyTi View Post
Something with watts tells me more than average speed. 200 watts and up is still not something I would see a typical 50 year old and up person maintaining for a long period. Tour riders stay around 200-300 watts on a long tour stage. And some of the figures in here doesn't make much sense. I have found in most forums in regards to average speed everything is exaggerated and I usually just sit back and chuckle and don't say anything. The OP says he doesn't even have a computer let alone power meter so that would make sense. Strava link don't work you need an account I guess. I don't use Strava.

Any ways aside from the numbers being thrown around here that I find suspiciously pro, I like the OP's attitude. I just feel the numbers here are slightly(well largely) inflated like most average speed threads...that's all I'm saying.
It doesn't seem as if you have a very good understanding of power and speed, nor of peloton dynamics and the corresponding power necessary to get pulled along at 30 mph in a huge group. And saying tour riders average 200-300 watts on a stage is a massively gross misrepresentation of what it takes to ride in a professional peloton. I've done 300 watts for 3 hours solo, but I'd get dropped in a pro stage race as soon as it got even a little hard (and hard in a pro race is so unlike any other type of hard it can't even be expressed).
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Old 08-30-18, 07:25 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by NoWhammies View Post
My concern/stress with riding with stronger riders is when it comes my time to take a pull at the front. I generally can't do as long a pull as the stronger riders and I don't want them thinking I'm not doing my part. Plus when I'm moving over to the side to let the group move up, I find I have to work hard (sometimes) to get back on the peloton because my legs are gassed. Not to mention having to build up confidence in riding in a pack and trusting those around you.
Then pull through and off. 5-10 secs maximum for you to start pulling around the rider and then pulling off for someone to pull around you. The most important thing in a pace line is maintaining speed. One of the most irritating is someone who gets to the front and sits there as if they're doing everyone a favor, when in reality all they're doing is slowing everyone down and pissing them off.

Short pulls = faster paceline.
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Old 08-30-18, 07:29 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by MyTi View Post


Ok 27mph 50 year old cyclists lol. Were up at 30mph as well. Waiting for guys to claim 35mph sitting in on flats.
Sounds like you need to do better group rides. There's nothing magical about 30 or even 35 in the right conditions/terrain. Sitting in is precisely that.

Now the skill necessary to handle that without taking half the group out when someone reaches for a water bottle is another subject altogether...
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Old 08-30-18, 11:44 PM
  #59  
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I can average 15-17 mph on my solo rides but I still usually get dropped on most moderately fast group rides that average 15-17 mph, even on the same routes.

It's because casual groups of enthusiastic amateurs tend to accordion quite a bit, while I tend to ride steadily at my own pace. And groups tend to hammer harder up climbs, then coast downhills. I'm not a strong climber and prefer to pedal consistently downhill. So I'm sprinting to catch up after cresting hills, then braking on downhills to minimize gaps.

The erratic pace is exhausting compared with my usual solo ride habits. But it's a good workout so I plan to resume group rides after I recover form some recent injuries.
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Old 08-31-18, 12:34 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Exactly. I would say that experienced riders would prefer you stay out of the rotation until you get stronger. It keeps things smoother, which keeps everything together. And yeah, don't contest the sprint if you didn't pull.

Agree wholeheartedly, a quick paceline is a smooth one that maintains its pace - surging and/or slowing due to riders who are inexperienced, or not as fit, causes issues.

One thing I'd add, if people are not able to roll turns, then sit at the back, either as the gatekeeper, or behind said person and don't get in the way of those who are rolling through.

cheers
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Old 08-31-18, 01:47 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
It doesn't take 400 watts to ride 27 mph. Many people (that do this sort of thing) can do it at 300w and thereabouts.
For me, it is pretty close to that. I will ride about that average speed when doing my 800 m intervals at the velodrome and my average watts are around the 400 watt range.
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Old 08-31-18, 07:30 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by colnago62 View Post


For me, it is pretty close to that. I will ride about that average speed when doing my 800 m intervals at the velodrome and my average watts are around the 400 watt range.
That's pretty high if starting from a decent speed. May be some low hanging aero/crr fruit you can find.
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Old 08-31-18, 07:43 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
That's pretty high if starting from a decent speed. May be some low hanging aero/crr fruit you can find.
The average includes the acceleration down the banking. Maximum wattage is usually close to 800 Watts.
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Old 08-31-18, 10:35 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
That's pretty high if starting from a decent speed. May be some low hanging aero/crr fruit you can find.
The more think about it, there are variables that aren’t necessarily present on the road. The banking definitely requires more wattage to maintain the same pace and the acceleration at the beginning also requires higher Watts than if riding at a steady speed.
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Old 08-31-18, 10:43 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by colnago62 View Post


The more think about it, there are variables that aren’t necessarily present on the road. The banking definitely requires more wattage to maintain the same pace and the acceleration at the beginning also requires higher Watts than if riding at a steady speed.
And there are variables that are removed. At the end of the day, track or not, 400 watts is a lot of watts to only go 27 mph. Most would say too many.
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Old 08-31-18, 11:24 AM
  #66  
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Old 08-31-18, 02:51 PM
  #67  
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.63 cda? Are you just making numbers up at this point?

In all seriousness, you might want to read through this thread. Might change your perspective on speed and watts and give you some ideas to tinker with:

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/S...race_P3499977/
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Old 08-31-18, 03:16 PM
  #68  
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I know zero about any of this. I just remember seeing this link in a similar discussion and thought I would add it into this discussion.
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Old 08-31-18, 06:41 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by MyTi View Post
50 year olds holding 27mph / 400 watts for 5-8 miles assuming all flat. Pretty insane. Almost unbelievable unless you have a nice tailwind or good down hill section.
Not that uncommon in a peloton, which will go 4 mph or more faster at those speeds than the slowest rider could do solo, as long as people are taking turns on the front or if there's one guy pulling who's a monster. I was 58 years old last year when I did this ride:

www.strava.com/activities/1107687323/

Note the 6.35-mile segment. Yes, I had a 10 mph North wind for that segment (about a 7-8 mph tailwind component) and yes, it does have a net drop of 9 feet/mile, but I guarantee that 25.1 mph speed would be faster than 27 mph in a group even with no wind and no net drop. The aero advantage in a well-functioning group is greater than just about any tailwind that's safe to ride in.

There are at least 7 other cyclists over 50 years old within a 20-mile radius of my town that are faster than I am (and I might be forgetting a few). Get us all together and working smoothly as a unit and we could do faster than 27 mph for 5-8 flat miles, no problem. Pretty sure I could take 2-3 20-second pulls at 27-28 mph and still hang in for the rest of it at virtually 23+ mph effort, and some of the other guys could do the same with even less trouble.

So it's not all that big a deal.
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Old 08-31-18, 07:17 PM
  #70  
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All this talk of speed and hanging in the pack etc makes me nervous.😓 It reminds me if my early 20s and riding in a club and getting dropped.. did it for a couple of season but never had discipline nor the desire to get up at 5 am and ride on weekends and get beat up. Now at 56. I am thinking about getting into a bit of touring . I did like the speed and the feeling you get sometimes cruising in a pack way faster than you could on your own. ,,but may be will enjoy touring more..
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Old 09-01-18, 08:03 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Zuzus pedals View Post
Not that uncommon in a peloton, which will go 4 mph or more faster at those speeds than the slowest rider could do solo, as long as people are taking turns on the front or if there's one guy pulling who's a monster. I was 58 years old last year when I did this ride:

www.strava.com/activities/1107687323/

Note the 6.35-mile segment. Yes, I had a 10 mph North wind for that segment (about a 7-8 mph tailwind component) and yes, it does have a net drop of 9 feet/mile, but I guarantee that 25.1 mph speed would be faster than 27 mph in a group even with no wind and no net drop. The aero advantage in a well-functioning group is greater than just about any tailwind that's safe to ride in.

There are at least 7 other cyclists over 50 years old within a 20-mile radius of my town that are faster than I am (and I might be forgetting a few). Get us all together and working smoothly as a unit and we could do faster than 27 mph for 5-8 flat miles, no problem. Pretty sure I could take 2-3 20-second pulls at 27-28 mph and still hang in for the rest of it at virtually 23+ mph effort, and some of the other guys could do the same with even less trouble.

So it's not all that big a deal.
I disagree with that tailwind statement...a 25mph tailwind would be more beneficial than any paceline. But I'm probably picking nits here
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Old 09-01-18, 03:54 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
I disagree with that tailwind statement...a 25mph tailwind would be more beneficial than any paceline. But I'm probably picking nits here
Probably true with that much wind. But there's the enjoyment factor and the safety factor with crosswinds where there are passing cars. If it's that's breezy, I might not go out at all unless I get driven to the tailwind start point or unless I only have to do about 5 miles into the wind. I hate struggling for very long to go less than 10 mph! Worse yet, crosswinds like that will give you a near-ditch experience and the Bernoulli effect from passing vehicles is magnified to the point of causing you to go all over the road.
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Old 09-01-18, 09:53 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by rossiny View Post
All this talk of speed and hanging in the pack etc makes me nervous.😓 It reminds me if my early 20s and riding in a club and getting dropped.. did it for a couple of season but never had discipline nor the desire to get up at 5 am and ride on weekends and get beat up. Now at 56. I am thinking about getting into a bit of touring . I did like the speed and the feeling you get sometimes cruising in a pack way faster than you could on your own. ,,but may be will enjoy touring more..
I mostly prefer riding solo. The main reason I occasionally tag along with a faster group is to force myself to get stronger so I'll enjoy my solo and casual group rides more.

Training on my own, I was loafing and getting lazy. When it hurt I just backed off. But with a faster group I'm motivate to at least try to hang on. I realized I could push beyond the immediate discomfort. Now I'm faster and stronger overall on solo rides.

But I know my limitations. I usually hang in the middle of a faster group until I can feel I'm tiring enough to be a hazard to folks around me. Then I'll drop to the back of the pack. I'm more likely to get dropped off the back when a gap opens, but I won't risk anyone else because I'm fatigued. I'm still gaining some benefit from at least trying to hang with them. And if I get dropped I can still go my own way and pace, no harm done. It's still a good ride.
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Old 09-01-18, 10:15 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Zuzus pedals View Post
Not that uncommon in a peloton, which will go 4 mph or more faster at those speeds than the slowest rider could do solo
Ok so the slowest rider in a group of retired 50 year olds is doing about 23mph solo(since in the group they do 27mph) which translates to 300 watts constant. Sorry but this is nonsense and the tall tales are simply out of control. 50 year olds are not going to be pushing tour rider level wattage and no where near 300 watts consistently on their own. Sure they can do it for maybe a mile or so. 50 years old I come across in full kit, I pass them like they are standing still, and I'm incredibly out of shape right now and a good 85 pounds overweight.
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Old 09-02-18, 01:25 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by MyTi View Post
Ok so the slowest rider in a group of retired 50 year olds is doing about 23mph solo(since in the group they do 27mph) which translates to 300 watts constant. Sorry but this is nonsense and the tall tales are simply out of control. 50 year olds are not going to be pushing tour rider level wattage and no where near 300 watts consistently on their own. Sure they can do it for maybe a mile or so. 50 years old I come across in full kit, I pass them like they are standing still, and I'm incredibly out of shape right now and a good 85 pounds overweight.
The 50 years olds in this area are STRONG...They have been on bikes since they could walk...You aren't passing them without some effort. Saying you are incredibly out of shape and 85 pounds overweight and pass 50 years olds (in full kit so probably avid riders) "like they are standing still" is ridiculous...I'll agree, this forum does spin a lot of tall tales and yours above fits right in...
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