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How strong is strong?

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How strong is strong?

Old 09-18-18, 05:06 PM
  #26  
mcours2006
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
In bold...for how many miles?
Right. Forgot to mention that. I think if you can maintain 20+ mph solo for over 20 miles, that's pretty strong for a rec rider.

BTW, my wife can do that and similar poses, but I don't consider her 'strong'. Shhhh.
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Old 09-18-18, 05:28 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
Right. Forgot to mention that. I think if you can maintain 20+ mph solo for over 20 miles, that's pretty strong for a rec rider.

BTW, my wife can do that and similar poses, but I don't consider her 'strong'. Shhhh.
Only if there was a reasonable amount of hills too.
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Old 09-18-18, 05:29 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by memebag View Post
I know a strong rider. He does solo centuries for fun. He does double centuries to challenge himself. He's an older gentleman. He does it all faster than me and his max heart rate is 20 bpm lower than my average heart rate.
Heart rate is genetic and has nothing to do with performance when compared to someone else.

That his max hr is 20 bpm lower than your average is because of genetics.
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Old 09-18-18, 05:41 PM
  #29  
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How strong is strong?

Yes.
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Old 09-18-18, 08:21 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
Strong isn't the right word for a cyclist IMO. Most pros aren't "strong" in the usual sense.
Why not? Do you object to the use of the term "strong" because there is something else specific, besides the ability to move heavy stuff, that we should be focusing on? Or do we just want to exclude, or at least downplay that sense?

Seems to me that more often than not, describing a person as "strong" means that they have demonstrated a significant willingness and ability to stand up to and survive challenges and adversity - of any sort - that they are likely to succeed in the things they set out to do. Cyclists may not be very accomplished at lifting heavy stuff and ripping things apart, and while that is one well-understood sense of "strong," it's hardly the usual. I know I hear the word used to refer to a person's character or just about any other abilities far more often than I hear people using it to describe anyone's ability to move heavy things around.

Strong can mean winning races.
Strong can mean getting out the door every morning and put miles on the bike.
Strong can mean enduring a course of chemo, or 14 broken bones, or a heart transplant, and getting back to cycling again at all.
Strong is about not giving up.
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Old 09-18-18, 08:34 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by kbarch View Post
Why not? Do you object to the use of the term "strong" because there is something else specific, besides the ability to move heavy stuff, that we should be focusing on? Or do we just want to exclude, or at least downplay that sense?

Seems to me that more often than not, describing a person as "strong" means that they have demonstrated a significant willingness and ability to stand up to and survive challenges and adversity - of any sort - that they are likely to succeed in the things they set out to do. Cyclists may not be very accomplished at lifting heavy stuff and ripping things apart, and while that is one well-understood sense of "strong," it's hardly the usual. I know I hear the word used to refer to a person's character or just about any other abilities far more often than I hear people using it to describe anyone's ability to move heavy things around.

Strong can mean winning races.
Strong can mean getting out the door every morning and put miles on the bike.
Strong can mean enduring a course of chemo, or 14 broken bones, or a heart transplant, and getting back to cycling again at all.
Strong is about not giving up.
Well, I took strong as related to muscular force. If you want to extend that to moral force, that's OK, but I'd call that being tough rather than strong. However, if English is your native language you're probably right, as I'm an ESL.
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Old 09-18-18, 08:56 PM
  #32  
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You'll know strong when you see it. Now in the case of BO, you'll know it when you smell it.
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Old 09-18-18, 09:57 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
Do they mean at 1 time? I'm a climber so I can do about 20 pullups in a row, I'd guess 99% of the male population could not do 15 pullups in a row.


I spent some time working on getting up to 20 pull ups.

Got to 16 but the tendons were complaining so I gave it a rest. Can do 10 'tho.

I belong to a club that's mostly made up of the older set, & I enjoy a not well deserved reputation for being a strong rider,

so it's pretty much all about the context IMO. Anyone can be a strongman in the kindergarten class,

but there's always a class beyond where you are off the back.
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Old 09-18-18, 10:01 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by spelger View Post
on another thread i came across the phrase "Since there are a lot of strong older cyclists on this forum..." this made me wonder how to determine how strong "strong" is. so, what is the guideline? what is your guideline? i'm 51 (is that old?) and i know what i can do and what i can't do. 20 years ago a century was a piece of cake. today it would probably take me all day with a big rest in the middle, if lucky.

-scott

Yeah but if you worked on it, in a season you could get back to the piece of cake century.
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Old 09-19-18, 02:47 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by spelger View Post
on another thread i came across the phrase "Since there are a lot of strong older cyclists on this forum..." this made me wonder how to determine how strong "strong" is. so, what is the guideline? what is your guideline? i'm 51 (is that old?) and i know what i can do and what i can't do. 20 years ago a century was a piece of cake. today it would probably take me all day with a big rest in the middle, if lucky.

-scott
Also 51 and my "strong" has to do with endurance.

I was very happy with an 18 hour 18 minute 300K randonnee last March.
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Old 09-19-18, 03:14 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
I don't consider 51 to be old.
Me either!
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Old 09-19-18, 03:49 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by kbarch View Post
Why not? Do you object to the use of the term "strong" because there is something else specific, besides the ability to move heavy stuff, that we should be focusing on? Or do we just want to exclude, or at least downplay that sense?

Seems to me that more often than not, describing a person as "strong" means that they have demonstrated a significant willingness and ability to stand up to and survive challenges and adversity - of any sort - that they are likely to succeed in the things they set out to do. Cyclists may not be very accomplished at lifting heavy stuff and ripping things apart, and while that is one well-understood sense of "strong," it's hardly the usual. I know I hear the word used to refer to a person's character or just about any other abilities far more often than I hear people using it to describe anyone's ability to move heavy things around.

Strong can mean winning races.
Strong can mean getting out the door every morning and put miles on the bike.
Strong can mean enduring a course of chemo, or 14 broken bones, or a heart transplant, and getting back to cycling again at all.
Strong is about not giving up.
Yes, strong can have many connotations.
Below is the very definition of stronger than Lysol:


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Old 09-19-18, 07:46 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by growlerdinky View Post
How strong is strong?


Yes.

Exactly.


For cycling, people need to look at it this way: for every fight a knife.


Those three instances: long distance high elevation fondo, track racing, and short to medium distance road racing........all require different "knives".


Both Julian Alaphillipe and Mark Cavendish are strong, but they just hone their knives different ways.


If you HAVE to put a hard and fast number on it for people who you just meet on the local group rides.........I would start to refer to a rider as "strong" once your 20 min w/kg surpasses 4.0. I'd say under 3.0 is totally recreational.


For recreation only, like group or hammer rides.......NOT racing...I'd say

C riders: 3.0 w/kg and less

B riders: 3.0 to 3.5

A riders: 3.5 to 4.0 (I find a 4.0 to be more than adequate)

A+/racerboy: over 4.0.....with ability to accelerate and pull gaps, and able to do some pretty rough efforts longer than 3 to 4 minutes


If we're talking people that race, forget it. The numbers are either much higher OR their skill set in the race is so elevated you can't adequately quantify "strong" versus "fast". As "fast" encompasses being smart also.


Even at equal gross w/kg levels though, if a rider can accelerate hard when working hard and recover quicker.......or hold threshold efforts for longer than your normal "fondo group rider" they'll usually break them down pretty quick.


This is why an equal w/kg for a triathlete isn't the same as a short distance road racer. Anything under 2 hours the road racer destroys the same w/kg person, if it's an individual long-distance TT.......the triathlete wins. Every fight a knife.
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Old 09-19-18, 07:51 AM
  #39  
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Live strong. And prosper.
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Old 09-19-18, 08:56 AM
  #40  
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Anyone who races track.

Races at the track, even endurance races, are in fact long sprints. We ride fixed gear no brakes which means we have to have a wider range of cadence capability and more strength for mass start races. The larger the gear selected the more strength is required to accelerate to close or open gaps.

And we have standing starts for many of our races including team events and executing a fast start matters. Unlike in a road time trial or team time trial where the standing start is done from a start house with a ramp and the race is much longer rendering the start immaterial to the result. It takes a lot of strength and technique to start a fixed gear bike in a large gear.

Old school philosophy was for road racers to ride fixed gear on the road with the goal of developing strength and leg speed during the strength and adaptation period of the training cycle.

As @burnthesheep said, track is a specialty with its own requirements. However, strength to weight ratio is an asset in all races at the track. And many UCI grand tour riders got their start at the track such as Wiggins and Cavendish who were also Madison partners and won the world championship.


Last edited by Hermes; 09-19-18 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 09-19-18, 09:01 AM
  #41  
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Anyone put in "Army Strong", yet?
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Old 09-19-18, 09:23 AM
  #42  
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I know after a long ride in the heat, my BO is really strong!
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Old 09-19-18, 10:19 AM
  #43  
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This Woman Just Biked at 184 MPH to Smash the Bicycle Speed Record

"'So she’s no spring chicken at 45, but she’s a superb bike handler and at the peak of her strength after coming back after taking 23 years off and having three kids,' Howard said."
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Old 09-19-18, 11:39 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by memebag View Post
This Woman Just Biked at 184 MPH to Smash the Bicycle Speed Record

"'So she’s no spring chicken at 45, but she’s a superb bike handler and at the peak of her strength after coming back after taking 23 years off and having three kids,' Howard said."
Actually that is more of exercise in agility and bike handling. She had a powermeter on the bike and was only putting out 75 watts.
She rides locally with the C group, not exactly a ringing endorsement of strength.
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Old 09-19-18, 11:42 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
Actually that is more of exercise in agility and bike handling. She had a powermeter on the bike and was only putting out 75 watts.
She rides locally with the C group, not exactly a ringing endorsement of strength.
75 or 750?
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Old 09-19-18, 11:54 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
Actually that is more of exercise in agility and bike handling. She had a powermeter on the bike and was only putting out 75 watts.
She rides locally with the C group, not exactly a ringing endorsement of strength.
So her peak strength is weak?
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Old 09-19-18, 12:20 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by memebag View Post
This Woman Just Biked at 184 MPH to Smash the Bicycle Speed Record

"'So she’s no spring chicken at 45, but she’s a superb bike handler and at the peak of her strength after coming back after taking 23 years off and having three kids,' Howard said."
I talked with Howard on several occasions about this event. She is over 1000 watts for the one mile qualifying run but not sure if that was average power or peak power but not 75 watts. She did a lot of strength work at the gym. Frictional forces due to rolling resistance at 182 mph on the salt flat are significant and the draft in the fairing changes and the power surges in her legs. I talked with her after her record last year and she was telling me how difficult it is to stay in the sweet spot of the draft. She is on my wife’s racing team. We were very happy for her with the result and nothing bad happened.
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Old 09-19-18, 12:58 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post


I talked with Howard on several occasions about this event. She is over 1000 watts for the one mile qualifying run but not sure if that was average power or peak power but not 75 watts. She did a lot of strength work at the gym. Frictional forces due to rolling resistance at 182 mph on the salt flat are significant and the draft in the fairing changes and the power surges in her legs. I talked with her after her record last year and she was telling me how difficult it is to stay in the sweet spot of the draft. She is on my wife’s racing team. We were very happy for her with the result and nothing bad happened.
Certainly couldn't be average as that would put her well over 15w/kg that would probably be a world record on its own
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Old 09-19-18, 01:09 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
Certainly couldn't be average as that would put her well over 15w/kg that would probably be a world record on its own
At 180 mph a mile would be only 20 seconds - a long sprint.
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Old 09-19-18, 01:18 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
I don't consider 51 to be old.
neither do i really. 51? sometimes i feel 15, mentally anyway.
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