Psychocycles

I recently posted a thread asking if I had Performance Bike credit whether to go for a PM or carbon wheels - answer was pretty unanimous to go for PM. Now I'm thinking to forget about my store credit and just compare PMs across the market to get the best for my needs, as PB's offerings are quite limited.

I compiled a spreadsheet of different power meter companies and their offerings with pricing, weights, accuracy, battery types, etc and came up with these as my top 5:

1. Quarq DZero Alu - $824 with BB purchase, $779 otherwise

2. Power2Max Ngeco Rotor 3D+ - $825 (PM, BB, 3D+ cranks)

3. Quarq DZero Carbon - $1124 (PM, BB); $1079 w/o BB

4. Power2Max Ngeco FSA K-Force Carbon - $925 (PM, BB)

5. Powerbeat G3 Dual - $400 IF PM is compatible with existing Oval cranks, if not it becomes prohibitively expensive for such a PM & this drops out and #5.5 replaces

5.5. Stages LR Ultegra - $1075 (PM, R8000 cranks, BB)

Here's a question to you guys: My bike has a PF30 shell and currently has Praxis conversion BB PF30 to GXP 24-22. I could get the Quarq in GXP as they're SRAM, but would I regret that later? Would I be better off discarding this virtually brand new BB for a PF30 and get the Quarq PF30? Would I notice a difference?

If you had this list, what PM would you go for? Am I missing any that you guys love? I hear bad things about Stages' battery life and connection issues - can anyone confirm if they've solved those in Generation 3? If they still have these issues I have more than enough options with 1-5. Also, what cranks would work best with the PM? I believe the PMs themselves on the list are highly reviewed and quality, but what differences would I notice with the cranks? I know pros use Rotor 3D+ so I have little concern with those, but what about the Quarq Alu/carbon? How does Ultegra R8000 stack up against Rotor/Quarq? FSA K-Force?

At first I was looking for PMs that transfer well from one bike to the other so I can train with power on the trainer (I have a dedicated trainer bike) but I think I'll go with the Kinetic inRide3 pod on my trainer and save myself the hassle of swapping PMs, so that is not a big item of concern on my list.

Thanks!

king_solom0n

No interest in pedal power meters? I have the Favero Assioma and they work well for me.

Psychocycles

I looked at the offerings from Garmin, Favero, and Powertap but I have three issues with them: First, I've got issues with road pedals and hotspots on my feet. That's a separate issue from this thread that I'll try to figure out at some point but I don't want to be experimenting with $700+ pedals to solve the issue; I currently run SPDs on my road & cross bike and with mountain shoes I don't have as big, or at all, issues with my feet. Second issue is that I've heard they wear out faster than other types of power meters due to the nature of being pedals. I can get over this if I solve the first problem; however, I still have the third issue: Once I solve the road shoe/foot problem, I want Speedplays, not Look cleats. PM pedals limits me to Look.

Campag4life

Will only share my opinion.

this:
https://www.competitivecyclist.com/stages-cycling-shimano-ultegra-r8000-r-gen-3-power-meter-crank-arm-with-chainrings?skid=SGC001A-GRE-S165MMS5034&CMP_SKU=SGC001A&MER=0406?CMP_SKU=SGC001A&MER=0406&CSPID=0914&mr:trackingCode=BA241412-7DA0-E811-80FA-0050569428E8&mr:referralID=NA&mr:device=c&mr:adType=pa&mr:ad=77446864448815&mr:filter=45810464798338 04&CMP_ID=PLA_BNmyDeviceIndicator=c014&CSPID=0914&utm_source=Bing&utm_medium=PLA&k_clickid=ebbf8163-e80b-4119-8ffc-453965b158db&rmatt=tsid:1042820

+
this: (non ceramic bearing version)
https://praxiscycles.com/product/shimano-conversion-bb/

Many happy and reliable miles of riding with power.

Psychocycles

Interesting username for someone advocating Shimano

WhyFi

I'm not terribly familiar with all of the BB types mentioned, so a couple questions: With your current converter, is the outside diameter of the bearings the same and just the interior diameter is different (22mm vs 24mm)? If so, why not just get a second 24mm ID bearing and leave the rest in place? No new BB necessary to go to a 24mm spindle.

Also, if you're not already a Clever Training VIP, track down the link on DC Rainmaker for the $5 membership - it'll get you 10% off all of the time (applicable products) and 20% off during sales (they carry Stages, Pioneer and many others).

Campag4life

Love Shimano products. I in fact, mix groupsets. I like Shimano cranks, wheelsets, Di2 is great, love their dual pivot brakes, mtb groupsets. Name would be funny if I combined both. I was riding Campy when a lot of guys here were only a twinkle.

WhyFi

This is single-sided only, FYI.

Campag4life

Will field this one because BB's are partly my thing. Reason is Praxis sleeves are an entity and not halves one can buy separately.
The f-ed up dissimilar ID's of GXP cranks is so SRAM can make more money and requires a proprietary BB with different bores to match their cranks.
Shimano is straight spindle dia and therefore if running a Praxis sleeve requires a different P/N.

PF30 was originally designed to run 30mm crank spindles. Of course Shimano never embraced this and I in fact applaud their steadfastness. Even guys like Boonen can't bend a DA spindle at over 2000 watts.

Campag4life

Yup, understood. I am ok with that. Even if there is a disparity in leg dominance/force per pedal stroke translating into dissimilar wattage which there is for every rider out there, is what it is. Powermeters have error and I believe they are a great training aid for 'relativism'.

Psychocycles

I believe it's just as if I had a GXP BB. I'm not sure whether my exterior diameter is different but I spoke to a few manufacturers and they said I'd need a new BB if I wanted Shimano 24mm. And that link is pretty cool, I may hit that up before I purchase.

Psychocycles

I added it to the list but my issue is that this setup would cost $725, which is so close to a Quarq dual sided meter that it wouldn't make too much sense to go for a R only meter for almost the same cash, unless I really wanted R8000 cranks, which I'd love but I'm also open to Rotor / Quarq. Also, the Stages LR meter is only $275 more, so I'd save up a bit more and go with that realistically.

WhyFi

I wasn't proposing to replace one of the sleeves. I know that the bearing IDs are different, DS vs NDS, but I was asking about the OD - if the ODs are the same, is there a reason that he can't replace the 22mm ID bearing with a 24mm ID bearing? Or are the widths different or something?

Seattle Forrest

That's a pretty nice crankset even without the PM.

Campag4life

The OD of the larger sleeve is uniform. It is in effect a BB30 used with a narrow spacer. PF30 is uniform 46mm I.D. hole in a carbon frame.
Answer to your question is unknowable with taking a Dremel or die grinder to a Praxis sleeve. 22 and 24mm bearings are 'captured' within the body of sleeve, respective halves. If willing to cut sleeve halves open, one could easily measure the OD of a 22 versus 24 bearing captured within...but don't believe it is determinable by observation.

WhyFi

The bearings aren't replaceable? That's... odd.

Campag4life

Understand and of course price points factor this all in. For me, no comparison between a Shimano and Sram crank with or without powermeter. I vastly prefer Shimano because of its design and attachment and even maintenance. But, lots of Quarqs running around as well. I am ok with one Stages. How many people look at their individual foot power anyway with a 2 sided PM?

Campag4life

I haven't seen a sleeve arrangement, i.e. Praxis, Wheel Mfg etc where the bearings are replacable. This is the point of a sleeve. Plug and play.
Many don't want to contend with press fit bearings because they can creak without judicious installation practices. Early PF30 separated press fit bearings and even cups with integrated bearings were never as robust as a sleeve that threads halves together FWIW...why Praxis and Wheel Mfg solutions are so popular for the abomination known as PF30.

WhyFi

Ah, I looked on the Praxis FAQs -

Doesn't sound too daunting.

redlude97

Probably because the bearing were pressed in with loctite...which if done correctly on the pressfit BB shell as well would result in essentially the same trouble free performance.

Campag4life

Close, but not precisely the same environment. A sleeve is generally going to be more reliable because bearings pressed with Loctite into the sleeve is more controlled. Better tolerances and manufacturing process compared to a mechanic pressing bearings into a BB with or without Loctite. Of course the wildcard is the variability of the sleeve to the BB shell.

rubiksoval

Until you get a diferent pm and all your power data is "relative" to the old one that reads 10% differently.

Seattle Forrest

I did earlier this week, with my PT. This is kind of an edge case (pulled a hamstring a little running, hurts occasionally on the bike) but it was good to have.

99Klein 

Just my 2 cents. I would get the best Quarq you can afford/justify. If you get GPX, it will fit most frames, should you switch in the future. Keep an eye on chainring compatibility when choosing though. Power meters are not "light" so if you can afford the carbon one, it makes sense to me. However, I would gladly give up a few grams for the benefit of a powermeter. YMMV.

Campag4life

and...the result was?...one leg hobbled and the other not?