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GP5000s tubeless

Old 11-09-18, 12:35 PM
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GP5000s tubeless

Velonews:

Continental finally offers a tubeless road tire

Continental launched two new tires earlier this week. The new GP5000s has a whole host of advantages over its predecessor, the GP4000sII, according to Continental. Those include 12 percent better rolling resistance, 20 percent more puncture protection, 10 grams of weight savings, and more vibration absorption. Thatís all well and good, but the really exciting news is the addition of the GP5000TL to the lineup. Itís got even better rolling resistance numbers (5 percent better than the GP5000s, in fact) and more puncture protection. The best part? Itís tubeless. The non-tubeless GP5000s costs $79 and the tubeless version runs $94. The GP5000s is available immediately in 23mm and 25mm widths. In six weeks, the non-tubeless tire will also be available in 28mm and 32mm widths. The 25mm tubeless tire will also be available in six weeks.
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Old 11-09-18, 01:16 PM
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I saw that the other day. Looks right up my alley, but honestly for less than the price of one tire I can get a set of gp4000s, which I KNOW I like.

Been thinking about making the switch to tubeless more out of curiosity than anything though, so who knows. I'll be looking for a wheelset and a set of tires come spring.

Also...on a more general theme, I find it ridiculous that good bike tires cost nearly as much as car tires
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Old 11-09-18, 01:20 PM
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I'm really excited for this, especially the 32mm tubeless.

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Old 11-09-18, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by GrainBrain
I'm really excited for this, especially the 32mm tubeless.

https://youtu.be/nDASVXBAw8U
Yea the 32 mm is what is catching my eye...looks pretty ideal for commuting over broken glass, occasional group rides, and even more occasional gravel rides.
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Old 11-09-18, 03:13 PM
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I never understood, and still don't, the reason behind the necessary tradeoff of increasing rolling resistance in order to increase puncture resistance.
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Old 11-09-18, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
I never understood, and still don't, the reason behind the necessary tradeoff of increasing rolling resistance in order to increase puncture resistance.
What dont you understand?

"Stuff" has to be there to stop a puncture.
"Stuff" increases rolling resistance.
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Old 11-09-18, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
I never understood, and still don't, the reason behind the necessary tradeoff of increasing rolling resistance in order to increase puncture resistance.
The tire deforms where it presses against the ground: the sidewalls compress, and the center flattens into the contact patch. Deforming the tire in this way, as it enters the contact patch, uses up some of your rolling energy.
When the tire uncompresses as it exits the back side of the contact patch, it springs back, and some of the energy that was spend deforming the tire is returned to forward motion.

The air within the tire, the tire's "air spring", requires quite a bit of energy to compress, but it also springs back very lively. Tire casings that are very supple don't necessarily spring back very aggressively, but they also don't require very much energy to compress. When you add more and more material to the tire, you tend to spend more energy deforming the tire itself, and this energy usually doesn't get returned very well on the back side of the contact patch. Highly-effective puncture-protection layers tend to behave poorly in this respect.

High-performance tires often use thin and flexible puncture protection layers to minimize the impact on weight and rolling performance, but these layers frequently don't do a whole lot to protect against punctures either.
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Old 11-09-18, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by popeye
Velonews:

Continental finally offers a tubeless road tire

Continental launched two new tires earlier this week. The new GP5000s has a whole host of advantages over its predecessor, the GP4000sII, according to Continental. Those include 12 percent better rolling resistance, 20 percent more puncture protection, 10 grams of weight savings, and more vibration absorption. Thatís all well and good, but the really exciting news is the addition of the GP5000TL to the lineup. Itís got even better rolling resistance numbers (5 percent better than the GP5000s, in fact) and more puncture protection. The best part? Itís tubeless. The non-tubeless GP5000s costs $79 and the tubeless version runs $94. The GP5000s is available immediately in 23mm and 25mm widths. In six weeks, the non-tubeless tire will also be available in 28mm and 32mm widths. The 25mm tubeless tire will also be available in six weeks.
So one of these unicorn-hide roadie tires cost as much as 2x of my gravel tires that have 2x as much material in them.


Ah, the roadie tax.
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Old 11-09-18, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by HTupolev
The tire deforms where it presses against the ground: the sidewalls compress, and the center flattens into the contact patch. Deforming the tire in this way, as it enters the contact patch, uses up some of your rolling energy.
When the tire uncompresses as it exits the back side of the contact patch, it springs back, and some of the energy that was spend deforming the tire is returned to forward motion.

The air within the tire, the tire's "air spring", requires quite a bit of energy to compress, but it also springs back very lively. Tire casings that are very supple don't necessarily spring back very aggressively, but they also don't require very much energy to compress. When you add more and more material to the tire, you tend to spend more energy deforming the tire itself, and this energy usually doesn't get returned very well on the back side of the contact patch. Highly-effective puncture-protection layers tend to behave poorly in this respect.

High-performance tires often use thin and flexible puncture protection layers to minimize the impact on weight and rolling performance, but these layers frequently don't do a whole lot to protect against punctures either.
Thank you for the explanation... well thought out. What I didn't understand, is that while you add more material (or "stuff") to a tire to increase thickness and puncture resistance, to compensate, the tire maker could use more supple materials to compensate, or, you inflate your tire to a lesser psi.
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Old 11-09-18, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
to compensate, the tire maker could use more supple materials to compensate
That's basically just saying "use better materials." The problem is that most puncture-protection materials that are effective in thin layers are not very supple.

or, you inflate your tire to a lesser psi.
That increases the amount of deformation that the tire experiences.
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Old 11-09-18, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
So one of these unicorn-hide roadie tires cost as much as 2x of my gravel tires that have 2x as much material in them.


Ah, the roadie tax.
Yes but they are VIRGIN unicorns and they are getting hard to find.
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Old 11-09-18, 07:19 PM
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Wish they were making a 30mil.
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Old 11-09-18, 08:16 PM
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Ninety five bucks a tire. Ninety five. I'm trying to let that sink in. My car is fitted with 245/40-ZR17 summer performance tires, rated AA for traction and AA for braking. They were about 80 bucks apiece, and last ~20,000 miles. Apples to oranges? Sure.

How about apples to apples? A Schwalbe Pro One can be had for about 40 bucks.
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Old 11-09-18, 08:48 PM
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Agreed. I was excited to try them until I saw the price. GP4k can be had for about $35/ea, I really donít see enough to warrant paying more than 2x that per tire. Looks like Iíll go with the Schwalbes if I want to try road tubeless.
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Old 11-09-18, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope
How about apples to apples? A Schwalbe Pro One can be had for about 40 bucks.
Sure, but you're comparing the new retail with the street price - I'm sure that the Conti will come down. Also, I haven't ridden the Pro One, but I don't think that anyone has ever accused them of being long-wearing. I would be shocked if the Contis weren't good for significantly more mileage than the Schwalbes.
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Old 11-09-18, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman
Also...on a more general theme, I find it ridiculous that good bike tires cost nearly as much as car tires
Good bike tires do not cost nearly as much as good automobile tires.
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Old 11-09-18, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Good bike tires do not cost nearly as much as good automobile tires.
They sure do on a per pound basis

Besides. Car tires are far more advanced. They've had road tubeless for nearly a century now.
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Old 11-09-18, 10:50 PM
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I'm looking forward to reading more about these tyres. Right now I'm not looking for a new set of tyres, but depending on what the reviews have to say, when time comes I might seriously consider these ones. Need to learn more though.
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Old 11-09-18, 10:59 PM
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I'm pretty sure the materials are a minor fraction of what you're paying for, so I wouldn't expect such a huge difference between the price of bike and car tyres.

I'd say most of what you're paying for is the development of the design and the creation of the tooling; once that's amortised, a large fraction of the price would be profit. But that's a huge outlay to make up for, no doubt. I'm tipping the GP5000 will be unrelentingly pricey for at least two or three years...
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Old 11-09-18, 11:37 PM
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I enjoy trying new tires and Iím sure that Iíll give these a shot. My Schwalbe Pro Oneís TL easy lasted about 1200 miles a few hundred less than Iíve gotten with some of my other tubeless models. The front one got nailed by something that ripped a nice hole in the sidewall. Real shame since I was proud to say that Iíve never had a flat in over 3 years of riding tubeless exclusively.

i do like the price of the Schwalbeís right now, but I wanted to try the S Works Turbos so paid retail for them at $100 each, thankfullly my LBS owner knows me well and gave me a nice solid discount! So far they ride very nicely, although I wish they had the 26mm vs the 24 that I bought. Will see how many miles I get and then trybthe contiís. Iím probably the only guy I know that didnít like the clincher GO 4000ís!
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Old 11-10-18, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman
They sure do on a per pound basis.
Who cares about the cost per pound? Would you be happier if your bike tires weighed 5 times more for the same price?

My most expensive car tires (Michelin Pilot Super Sport XL; $419 ea) cost about ten times as much as my most expensive bike tires (Schwalbe Pro One Tubeless; $43 ea).
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Old 11-10-18, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope
Ninety five bucks a tire. Ninety five. I'm trying to let that sink in. My car is fitted with 245/40-ZR17 summer performance tires, rated AA for traction and AA for braking. They were about 80 bucks apiece, and last ~20,000 miles. Apples to oranges? Sure.

How about apples to apples? A Schwalbe Pro One can be had for about 40 bucks.
Im sure online prices will drop soon enough, but I agree. Next time Im trying some off brand stuff like wiggles own brand or something. I feel its getting a bit out of hand.
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Old 11-10-18, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
Sure, but you're comparing the new retail with the street price - I'm sure that the Conti will come down. Also, I haven't ridden the Pro One, but I don't think that anyone has ever accused them of being long-wearing. I would be shocked if the Contis weren't good for significantly more mileage than the Schwalbes.
For TL flat protection, the Pirelli Cinturato looks really good. Not mentioned much around these forums (or is it fori)?
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Old 11-10-18, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Who cares about the cost per pound? Would you be happier if your bike tires weighed 5 times more for the same price?

My most expensive car tires (Michelin Pilot Super Sport XL; $419 ea) cost about ten times as much as my most expensive bike tires (Schwalbe Pro One Tubeless; $43 ea).
No. I'm just being dense. I'm offended on ethical grounds by how much they charge

I'll probably still pay and try them though. Dollars spent on tires even at exorbitant rates make more of a difference to the experience of riding a bike than anything else. Doesn't mean I have to like paying it though
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Old 11-10-18, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
For TL flat protection, the Pirelli Cinturato looks really good. Not mentioned much around these forums (or is it fori)?
I'd imagine it's because they're still relatively new and aren't seeing really wide distribution (at least I haven't seen them much).
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