Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

A few questions about rachet sound and choosing hubs

Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

A few questions about rachet sound and choosing hubs

Old 11-10-18, 10:54 AM
  #1  
Quintessentium
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
quiet hubs among mid-low price ranged wheelsets

Hello.

I'm a clueless bike rookie and looking for a quiet wheels.

(currently riding a focus AX Apex 2016 with a CEX 4.0 DB wheelset.)

1. is DT 350 targetted for MTB ? not applicable to road bikes as much as MTBs?

2. how quiet is a pawl ratchet hub of bontrager paradigm TLR than Shimano freehubs and than DT 350 ?

3. how quiet is a Shimano freehub than DT 350 18t star ratchet?

Last edited by Quintessentium; 11-10-18 at 11:01 AM. Reason: less blunt writing style
Quintessentium is offline  
Old 11-10-18, 11:35 AM
  #2  
popeye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Posts: 1,442

Bikes: S works Tarmac, Felt TK2 track

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
It's more about the grease than the hub.
popeye is offline  
Old 11-10-18, 02:32 PM
  #3  
Kimmo
bike whisperer
 
Kimmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 7,973

Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 401 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Shimano is one of the quietest, often by quite a bit. I'd say it's more about the hub design than the grease... Folks who live where it gets to freezing should only use oil, anyway. And you can pack the ratchet with grease, which will make it quiet, but only for a few minutes, before it gets almost as loud as with oil.

Shimano actually did a silent clutch, although I doubt it's still available. You might be able to find one on eBay.

ETA: Shimano has Scylence now.

Last edited by Kimmo; 11-10-18 at 02:58 PM.
Kimmo is offline  
Old 11-10-18, 04:18 PM
  #4  
DOS
Senior Member
 
DOS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Arlington, VA USA
Posts: 1,807
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
I think pf the DT350 as being good for either road or mountain.

Bontrager uses same design as DT so they should be comparable. My wifeís Bontrager hubs are pretty quiet, about the same as my Shimano Ultegra hubs. My White Industries T11, which are great hubs, are a bit buzzier than shimano. Frankly, I only notice the noise when the bike is in the work stand. On tne road, I canít hear it over the wind noise. Friends of mine run Reynolds and Zipp, both seem really noisy because I can often hear then coming from behind me when riding in pace line. Seems like hub makers include noise in their design decisions, with some prefering a buzzier noise.

More important than the noise is the number of contact points in the ratchet for the pawls to engage.. My White hubs have a 48pt ratchet, while the Ultegra ratchet only has 18, a minor difference I notice when reengaging my pedaling after coasting. DT and Bontrager use a different design that does not use pawls but, again, you can get ratchets with different numbers of teeth. See below for a useful chart on hub options

https://sugarwheelworks.com/wheel-builder/hub-spec.html
DOS is offline  
Old 11-10-18, 04:54 PM
  #5  
DrIsotope
Non omnino gravis
 
DrIsotope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: SoCal, USA!
Posts: 6,767

Bikes: Nekobasu, Pandicorn

Mentioned: 100 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3615 Post(s)
Liked 169 Times in 126 Posts
Shimano hubs are very quiet. Out of the box, my 6800 hubs were almost silent. As it broke in, it moved up to "I can hear it a little when there's not a lot of traffic." For ease of availability, serviceability, and longevity, you get a lot for your money. And they still use steel freehub bodies on most, so they won't get all chewed up.

You want to go to the extreme, Foss Worldwide has their new zero-drag hubs that make no sound at all. Magnets up in there, apparently.
__________________
DrIsotope is offline  
Old 11-10-18, 05:07 PM
  #6  
tinrobot
Spit out the back
 
tinrobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Silverlake, CA
Posts: 1,111
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I use Shimano hubs almost exclusively for this reason.

They are very quiet, and, while not always the lightest, they're also pretty good hubs.
tinrobot is offline  
Old 11-10-18, 05:07 PM
  #7  
Wilmingtech
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Rt 12 Washington USA
Posts: 301

Bikes: 2013 Ridley Helium, 2017 Blue Pro-Secco EX, 1987 Schwinn Super Sport

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 121 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 20 Posts
Im sure Ill take a beating for mentioning this but with a lightly greased hub I'll hit it with a splash of wd40 and it quiets down the ratchet sound quite nicely.

I would not reccomend this at all unless you service your freewheel regularly as the WD-40 will cut the grease and eventually evaporate. But it is very slick and quiets the clicking of the pawls quite well.

-Sean
Wilmingtech is offline  
Old 11-10-18, 05:55 PM
  #8  
Dean V
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,368
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 784 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 23 Times in 16 Posts
Keep peddling!
Dean V is offline  
Old 11-10-18, 06:18 PM
  #9  
aplcr0331
Compulsory Collectivisim
 
aplcr0331's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Inland Northwest
Posts: 456
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 184 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Iíve put about 4,000 miles on a road bike with DT Swiss 350 hubs, theyíre fantastic. Bought the upgraded 54t ratchet kit and the hubs are very loud. It works great for me because the sound notifies pedestrians on the MUP I use for part of my commute. Coming up behind people? Pedal backwards and itís a distinct noise that everyone (but headphone users) hears.
aplcr0331 is offline  
Old 11-11-18, 10:06 AM
  #10  
Bryan C. 
nothing to see here
 
Bryan C.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Antioch, CA
Posts: 301
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by aplcr0331 View Post
Iíve put about 4,000 miles on a road bike with DT Swiss 350 hubs, theyíre fantastic. Bought the upgraded 54t ratchet kit and the hubs are very loud. It works great for me because the sound notifies pedestrians on the MUP I use for part of my commute. Coming up behind people? Pedal backwards and itís a distinct noise that everyone (but headphone users) hears.
I have the DT 350 hubs with the 36 tooth ratchet. It's pretty loud and I have had a few people complain about it during group rides. Even I get annoyed with it sometimes on long rides. If you service it the light layer of grease on the ratchet halfs will quiet it down for a few rides but eventually the sound comes back.
Bryan C. is offline  
Old 11-11-18, 10:09 AM
  #11  
Marcus_Ti 
Frozen Solid.
 
Marcus_Ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 4,672

Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2

Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1932 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 42 Posts
Originally Posted by tinrobot View Post
I use Shimano hubs almost exclusively for this reason.

They are very quiet, and, while not always the lightest, they're also pretty good hubs.
Also...the price/performance is very hard to beat.

There are actual silent hubs out there with lower rolling resistance...but you'll pay much more for them.
Marcus_Ti is online now  
Old 11-11-18, 10:13 AM
  #12  
aclinjury
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Shimano hubs are quiter than most hubs out there, including DT and Chris King
aclinjury is offline  
Old 11-11-18, 11:28 AM
  #13  
DOS
Senior Member
 
DOS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Arlington, VA USA
Posts: 1,807
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
Keep peddling!
DOS is offline  
Old 11-11-18, 11:39 AM
  #14  
DOS
Senior Member
 
DOS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Arlington, VA USA
Posts: 1,807
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
Shimano hubs are quiter than most hubs out there, including DT and Chris King
Chris King hubs are infamous for their noise. But noisier hubs generally have more points of engagemet...more pawls, more ratchet points.. than do quiet Shimano hubs.Shimano, in making its hubs quiet...and dont get me wrong, they are excellent hubs, are choosing slightly lesss drag and silent coasting over more points of engagement and increased efficiency while pedaling. Chirs King, White Industries and other makers of noisier hubs are making the opposite decision, maximizing power transfer while pedaling while sacrificing a bit of noises and drag while coasting.
DOS is offline  
Old 11-11-18, 06:21 PM
  #15  
Litespud
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Chapel Hill NC
Posts: 369

Bikes: 2000 Litespeed Vortex Chorus 10, 1995 DeBernardi Cromor fixie

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked 30 Times in 21 Posts
Originally Posted by Bryan C. View Post
I have the DT 350 hubs with the 36 tooth ratchet. It's pretty loud and I have had a few people complain about it during group rides. Even I get annoyed with it sometimes on long rides. If you service it the light layer of grease on the ratchet halfs will quiet it down for a few rides but eventually the sound comes back.
people complain about your freehub? God, talk about a first world problem...
Litespud is offline  
Old 11-12-18, 02:25 AM
  #16  
aclinjury
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by DOS View Post


Chris King hubs are infamous for their noise. But noisier hubs generally have more points of engagemet...more pawls, more ratchet points.. than do quiet Shimano hubs.Shimano, in making its hubs quiet...and dont get me wrong, they are excellent hubs, are choosing slightly lesss drag and silent coasting over more points of engagement and increased efficiency while pedaling. Chirs King, White Industries and other makers of noisier hubs are making the opposite decision, maximizing power transfer while pedaling while sacrificing a bit of noises and drag while coasting.
Who does more engagement points increase "efficiency" while pedaling? But first you'd need to define what is efficiency you're referring to.
How does more engagement points maximize power transfer (compared to a hub with less engagement points)?

And I've done some simple rolling test of my Dura Ace wheels vs DT 240 vs CK R45.
The DT and DA always come out neck-to-neck and both are better than the CK R45 by a good margin. CK hubs tend to be draggy due to their robust seals. I'd take DA hubs over CK anyday if my goal is to roll with least resistance.

Last edited by aclinjury; 11-12-18 at 02:30 AM.
aclinjury is offline  
Old 11-12-18, 07:36 AM
  #17  
DOS
Senior Member
 
DOS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Arlington, VA USA
Posts: 1,807
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Well, pedaling efficiency is a function of how much of your effort is transfered to moving the wheel. Fewer enagement points means more space between them so more of your initial effort every time you stop and start pedaling is spent on engaging the pawls to ratchet. That is, when younstart pedaling, the delay between when you push the crank to when you feel the hub engage is wasted energy. That wasted energy is reduced when you increase engagement points. Now, for most of us this is a very small difference that hardly matters. But so too is the difference in drag when coasting between a dura ace hub and a noisier hub like a White Industry hub.

I do agree that cartridge bearing seals and the bearings themselves are more important wrt to drag than the ratchet noise. Can’t speak to Chris King drag, but when last I was in the market, I chose against CK hubs because I was concerned that servicing their proprietary bearing would be a pain. My White Industry Hubs spin very well aand are easy to service (although notnas easy as Shimano). I chose them over Dura Ace because I liked the option for increasd ratchet points, but also was influenced by the idea that the cartridge bearings meant I didn’t have to worry about water and what not damaging bearing races and ruining the hub. I still like my 48t ratchet, but have been coming around to think the shimano angular bearing design is superior (also very easy to service) and the risk of race damage very small. So if I were making my choice today, I might go with Dura Ace.

Last edited by DOS; 11-12-18 at 09:10 AM.
DOS is offline  
Old 11-12-18, 09:04 AM
  #18  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,207
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2930 Post(s)
Liked 109 Times in 81 Posts
Originally Posted by Litespud View Post

people complain about your freehub? God, talk about a first world problem...
Slow people complain about hub noise.
noodle soup is online now  
Old 11-12-18, 09:12 AM
  #19  
DOS
Senior Member
 
DOS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Arlington, VA USA
Posts: 1,807
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Slow people complain about hub noise.
Indeed. I have a friend with very noisy Reynolds (I think) hubs. When riding in paceline in front of him, while I am hammering like hell barely able to stay connected to the group, it is most annoying to hear him coasting behind me.
DOS is offline  
Old 11-12-18, 09:20 AM
  #20  
eja_ bottecchia
Senior Member
 
eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,299
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 735 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 70 Posts
My Campy Record hubs are noisy, they also roll nicely, are well made and are eay to rebuild.

I am happy.

Last edited by eja_ bottecchia; 11-12-18 at 09:30 AM.
eja_ bottecchia is offline  
Old 11-12-18, 09:23 PM
  #21  
hairnet
Fresh Garbage
 
hairnet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 13,188

Bikes: N+1

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 343 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by tinrobot View Post
I use Shimano hubs almost exclusively for this reason.

They are very quiet, and, while not always the lightest, they're also pretty good hubs.
Same. The SLX hub on my mtb isn't silent but a nice a classic ratcheting sound, no swarm of bees chasing me down the mountain
hairnet is offline  
Old 11-12-18, 09:37 PM
  #22  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,947
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 947 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 44 Times in 41 Posts
Life is too short to have to put up with buzzing hubs. Kind of like smoking. You can't do it without bothering the people around you.
seypat is offline  
Old 11-13-18, 05:03 AM
  #23  
Quintessentium
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Life is too short to have to put up with buzzing hubs. Kind of like smoking. You can't do it without bothering the people around you.

it was not necessarily for other people but for my ears. to my ears, my current rear wheel (Fulcrum CEX CD 4.0, presumably loud in average or slightly more) sounds like big fat monster mosquito and it's very annoying. (I've been grown to appreciate quietness usually in anything and in any circumstance too.)


metaphorically I wouldn't mind stable booming bass sound from maybach, but no-no to something like half-broken tractor (no offense to loud rachet lovers!!) every time I ride in the park! XD


but I don't wish that much, I just want less loud, just low as cheap 7 or 6 speed hub sound, that would be great for me.

Last edited by Quintessentium; 11-13-18 at 06:37 AM. Reason: correction for confusing article.
Quintessentium is offline  
Old 11-13-18, 11:42 PM
  #24  
Bryan C. 
nothing to see here
 
Bryan C.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Antioch, CA
Posts: 301
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Litespud View Post
people complain about your freehub? God, talk about a first world problem...
When riding with a group on a century I can understand their annoyance from my hub after listening to it for a few hours.

Originally Posted by DOS View Post
Indeed. I have a friend with very noisy Reynolds (I think) hubs. When riding in paceline in front of him, while I am hammering like hell barely able to stay connected to the group, it is most annoying to hear him coasting behind me.
This is something I am guilty of. My bike rolls really well, probably due to the nice bearings in the noisey hubs. I try to ride in higher gears at a lower cadence but that is only moderately helpful.

Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Life is too short to have to put up with buzzing hubs. Kind of like smoking. You can't do it without bothering the people around you.
Some people get bothered by very trivial things. I tend to not worry about their opinions much. But, if a usual riding buddy starts to show his annoyance then I may give more thought to fixing the issue, depending on the economics of course.
Bryan C. is offline  
Old 11-14-18, 09:13 AM
  #25  
Clipped_in
Rubber side down
 
Clipped_in's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Teh Quickie Mart
Posts: 1,592

Bikes: are fun! :-)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
Shimano hubs are quiter than most hubs out there, including DT and Chris King
^^^Major understatement. Shimano hubs are the polar opposite of Chris Kings as far as sound. I absolutely love DuraAce hubs and they are virtually silent.
Clipped_in is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.