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Aluminum Is More Elastic Than Steel

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Aluminum Is More Elastic Than Steel

Old 11-28-18, 09:48 AM
  #151  
McBTC
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
You didn't learn much.
Aluminum is a 'real presence in the bike industry'. I have owned several. Zinn nailed the dynamic relative to Fatigue life...yield strength of Al relative to SN curve and number of cycles. Engineers understand this. I am an engineer. Designs are created based upon material properties. An Aluminum frame could weigh 650g like an Emonda SLR carbon frame. It would likely fail. Yield strength matters. SN curve matters. No. of cycles of loading matters. Engineers understand these things. Its why airplanes are deemed safe by the FAA.

You need to get over 'yourself'. The industry ignores you.
Improvements in bike technology has ended the useful life of more old bicycles than frame-fatigue. I don't know if Trek's IsoSpeed will in the end be a breakthrough but it's an interesting idea and if it's a design that makes a lot of sense going forward, it seems to me that it is an example of the sort of technology (like building a flex-free frame with mechanisms to isolate vibration from the seat and bars), that dates older bikes. Who knows if, before long there may be a road bike-version frame shocks. As discussed earlier, the trend to fatter tires on road bikes has already changed the ride comfort dynamic.
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Old 11-28-18, 10:37 AM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
I don't know if Trek's IsoSpeed will in the end be a breakthrough but it's an interesting idea and if it's a design that makes a lot of sense going forward, it seems to me that it is an example of the sort of technology (like building a flex-free frame with mechanisms to isolate vibration from the seat and bars), that dates older bikes. Who knows if, before long there may be a road bike-version frame shocks.
Suspension on road bikes has certainly been done before. 3 editions of Paris-Roubaix in the early 1990s were won by road bikes with RockShox suspension forks, for instance.

For that matter, it's not like IsoSpeed isn't a suspension scheme. Trek just tries to avoid describing it as such because "suspension" has traditionally been a dirty word in road cycling.
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Old 11-28-18, 11:46 AM
  #153  
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There are several drop bar bikes with active suspensions
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Old 11-28-18, 08:44 PM
  #154  
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All I want is an XL alloy frame comfort/endurance, 105-equipped road bike that accepts 28mm tires front and back (and, if it has some sort of vibration damping/active suspension technology, all the better), for < $2K. I thought Trek's Domane might fill the bill but, no 105-equipped alloy frame for '19 and... who wants a carbon steerer tube on an alloy bike?
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Old 11-28-18, 08:58 PM
  #155  
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^Build it yourself.^
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Old 11-29-18, 01:57 AM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
All I want is an XL alloy frame comfort/endurance, 105-equipped road bike that accepts 28mm tires front and back (and, if it has some sort of vibration damping/active suspension technology, all the better), for < $2K. I thought Trek's Domane might fill the bill but, no 105-equipped alloy frame for '19 and... who wants a carbon steerer tube on an alloy bike?
I just got a 2019 Trek ALR5 and it goes really well.
Shimano 105 and it clears a 30mm (measured) tyre.
I also have a Domane SL6 disc with front/rear iso speed and although it helps a bit it is not huge.
The Emonda gives a very good ride with the 30mm tyres. If you put some decent wheels on it, it is lighter than the Domane and still cheaper.
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Old 11-29-18, 03:15 AM
  #157  
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Trek really did a nice job on their new ALR. Looks more like a sculpted carbon bike, just happens to be made from Al.
Tires are a game changer for comfort...an argument they matter more than the frame. I always use the mtb analogy. I have owned several with Al frames and 2 inch wide rubber run at 60 psi...what frame material? Big tires and lower pressure really isolate the road from the rider.

Specialized redesigned their Allez for 2018 and its a great Al bike as well. I have one which was a warranty replacement for my Secteur which inexplicably developed some rusty welds. The Allez for the $$ is really all the roadbike the average rider needs. Also the Allez Elite (versus Al aero crit bike Sprint version) uses a BSA BB and standard 27.2mm seatpost for fans of such things. What kind of wheels and groupset you place on the bike likely matters more than the frame because the frame is very good and btw, takes the bumps very well...little different than my carbon bikes really. With the advancement of Al now, biggest difference between carbon and Al is less than a pound in frame material...all use a carbon fork and new Allez even has a carbon steerer which is a nice touch at this price point.

Last edited by Campag4life; 11-29-18 at 03:19 AM.
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Old 11-29-18, 01:25 PM
  #158  
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Assuming no availability issues, I've been considering as my next 'new' roadie, Trek's latest 520 in the largest size and swapping out the OEM alloy fork with rack for a CF fork (with aluminum steerer tube and perhaps, giving it a bit more trail in the process). It's not 105-equipped but the end-of-bar shifting was eliminated for '19 and for me, I prefer STI shifting. Probably wouldn't do much if any touring but having a rear rack would be handy. Don't know much about Sora/Alivio but, the package looks like a great value. Emonda is a possibility but, I don't want a CF steerer in the event I might want to go with a stem extender-- doesn't seem to be an issue with Trek's Domane which has a pretty tall head tube.
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Old 11-29-18, 03:00 PM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
All I want is an XL alloy frame comfort/endurance, 105-equipped road bike that accepts 28mm tires front and back (and, if it has some sort of vibration damping/active suspension technology, all the better), for < $2K. I thought Trek's Domane might fill the bill but, no 105-equipped alloy frame for '19 and... who wants a carbon steerer tube on an alloy bike?
$1079.99 corporate price if you sign up for an account on their site. Anti-shock seatpost and stem, aluminum steerer.

https://www.raleighusa.com/merit-3

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Old 11-29-18, 04:32 PM
  #160  
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My 2019 Emonda alr5 has an alloy steerer.
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Old 11-29-18, 05:07 PM
  #161  
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George Hincapie went into a drainage ditch on his way to Roubaix, one spring day ,
when his fork's aluminum alloy steerer tube broke..

flex, fatigue, failure.. happens , in that order..
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Old 11-29-18, 06:23 PM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
Modern bikes are not made out of aluminum.
Except the one that won the US pro road race this year.

Should be obvious, but you don't build bikes to the same dimensions (inc ID/OD and wall thickness) with different materials.
I think it is also obvious the best material for an application depends a bit on the application - that includes the personality of the rider as well as what they are doing. Somehow at 1.5X my kid's (former) weight - I break wheels less.


For my performance builds I like (many things to argue here):
Steel BB spindle
Steel pedal spindles, carbon platforms
Alloy stem
Carbon bars
Tubulars - Carbon
Clinchers - Alloy, or maybe Mag
Spokes - SS - Aerolight or Sapim cx ray
Alloy axles
Ti Skewers
Alloy or Carbon seat post - it depends. Carbon softer, Alloy lighter.
Frame - carbon, but design and shape make a huge difference.
Brake cables - Cordz but they will nick and break so for front steel.
Cranks and rings alloy, but maybe carbon
Bolts - alloy for WB, Chainring, derailer points, head tube cap, Ti for brakes, sometimes steel - seat post bolts, it depends on torque and safety factors.

Last edited by Doge; 11-29-18 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 11-29-18, 08:29 PM
  #163  
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I like what I've got but it's a 2015 and it'd be nice to run 28s on the rear; and, a bit bigger bike would be nice but, I haven't seen a replacement at my price point... < ~$2K, in the 2019 lineup that gets my buds up.











...
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Old 11-29-18, 11:23 PM
  #164  
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Carbon 2018 Domane SL5 rim brake with Shimano 105 must be about right for price?
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Old 12-01-18, 05:07 AM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
Btw, I have a friend who was a good painter and he didn't like to get down off the ladder so much to relocate it. When he was young, he would pogo an aluminum ladder from one place to another.
I used to be a painter. Getting down from the ladder to move it always shat me, but I could never figure out what to do with the paint in order to be free to jump around with the ladder.

How did your friend avoid splashing paint everywhere?
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Old 12-01-18, 06:34 AM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
I used to be a painter. Getting down from the ladder to move it always shat me, but I could never figure out what to do with the paint in order to be free to jump around with the ladder.

How did your friend avoid splashing paint everywhere?
Probably wasn't a full can.
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Old 01-07-19, 06:36 PM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by HarborBandS View Post
I ride steel bikes.
I ride aluminum bikes.
I've owned a couple carbon fiber bikes in the past, but no longer own them.

I think aluminum bike frames got a bad rap in the early '90's when there were these super-stiff wide tubes out there on Canondales, Kleins, and the like. This characterization of aluminum bike frames has stuck, whether it's fair or not.

Personally I don't find my aluminum bikes that harsh. Yet my favorite bikes of all time, going back decades, are all steel bikes. I'm not sure how much of this is in my head vs. reality, but it saves me a ton of cash to just fix up 1980's roadies instead of buying modern bikes or framesets, so I might as well stick with it and be a half-second slower on my climbs (which no one is timing any way).

Steel is real! Maybe.
agree Harbor. for me it is about saving 'a ton of cash'. so i buy both, and don't notice much difference anyway. i tend to stay away from used Carbon though, as i have no skill in checking out the cracks in Carbon frames.

to save a ton of cash, you don't even have to go the Eighties route, plenty of newer used bikes to be had too. our local LBS has tradeins and now one of my faves is an aluminum Trek 1500. of course i am just as happy on my Trek 620 too. we C and V types look for the good in all bikes...guess we just like bikes. never had a frame failure in decades of riding either, i think some people ride with toooo much torque on the pedals or perhaps are over weight. bikes are made for less than 300 pounds generally.

over weight people might want to consider Touring bicycles made to go the distance or mtb's.
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Old 01-08-19, 10:00 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
Carbon 2018 Domane SL5 rim brake with Shimano 105 must be about right for price?
for '19 if you want an AL5 you have to buy the frame and have it built up... seems odd but it also could cost some sales --e.g., I'm not interested in a new SL5 because it has a CF steerer tube-- my current rig would be less comfortable without a stem extender
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Old 01-09-19, 04:02 AM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
My 2019 Emonda alr5 has an alloy steerer.
My new Allez has a carbon steerer. I have a rack on it and use it for light touring. Truthfully...mine is built with Campy and carbon handlebar and seat post, there is very little in speed difference between this bike and my fastest carbon bike. I love the new Aluminum Allez.

If you guys want a giggle, have a look at this guy's set up. I have the same black/white paint scheme. Check out how high his saddle is relative to his frame selection.
Not me. I am 6'1" and on a 58. This guy looks to be 6'6" and on a 56cm...lol:



Crazy position this big man chooses: Handlebar real close in and way down.


Last edited by Campag4life; 01-09-19 at 04:13 AM.
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