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Press Fit BB Stop You Buying A Bike ... Can It Be Converted

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Press Fit BB Stop You Buying A Bike ... Can It Be Converted

Old 11-26-18, 04:52 AM
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Witterings
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Press Fit BB Stop You Buying A Bike ... Can It Be Converted

Would a press fit BB stop you buying a bike nowadays or are they as good as threaded BB's and if it did fail in the future how easy / costly would it be to convert it ... it's a BB 86
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Old 11-26-18, 05:46 AM
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You can always buy a Wheels Manufacturing threaded replacement.

I wouldn't bother, Press-Fit BBs seem to be mature components now, refined to the point where they actually work without special adhesives and the like.

Buy the bike you want, and if, eventually, you find you hate the BB, replace it.
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Old 11-26-18, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
Would a press fit BB stop you buying a bike ...?
No.
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Old 11-26-18, 08:04 AM
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Use a Praxis conversion or an Enduro Torqtite.

The Torqtite is expensive but it takes two minutes to install.


-Tim-
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Old 11-26-18, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Use a Praxis conversion or an Enduro Torqtite.

The Torqtite is expensive but it takes two minutes to install.


-Tim-
Blimey ... those Enduro's are expensive

Since I posted I've been doing some research and found the Praxis, Hope and Wheels Manufacturing ones ..... do they actually convert it to a threaded BB or provide an alternative in between the 2 which is better quality / less prone to squeaking than a press fit and easier to service??
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Old 11-26-18, 09:07 AM
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I use BBinfinite.
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Old 11-26-18, 09:24 AM
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Yes. I wouldn't buy a PF30 bike. I did buy a BB30 bike and immediately swapped out the BB for a wheels mnfg and it's been fine, but I likely won't buy a BB30 bike again, either. My last bike was BSA, and my next bike likely will be as well.
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Old 11-26-18, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
Blimey ... those Enduro's are expensive

Since I posted I've been doing some research and found the Praxis, Hope and Wheels Manufacturing ones ..... do they actually convert it to a threaded BB or provide an alternative in between the 2 which is better quality / less prone to squeaking than a press fit and easier to service??
Wheels Manufcaturing presses in on one side, and then the other side threads into that.

I genuinely don't understand why 30mm is even still a thing. Shimano doesn't even use it and, at least around here, everyone rides Shimano. So everyone's using adapters already. Such a dumb concept for a problem that didn't even exist.
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Old 11-26-18, 07:48 PM
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Not an issue. If you have a creak or noise that can't be solved, Hambini bb adapters will do the trick.
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Old 11-26-18, 08:45 PM
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Would it absolutely stop me? No. Would I avoid it if I could find a reasonable alternative? Yes. I do have one bike with PF, but I got it at a drastic price reduction.
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Old 11-27-18, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by cruiserhead View Post
Not an issue. If you have a creak or noise that can't be solved, Hambini bb adapters will do the trick.
I don't expect the average guy to understand why Hambini is a bit of a fraud. Don't want to overstate it. But his videos and even his product are a disservice to the cycling industry.

His 'analysis' is bogus and I feel the same way about his product.

Last edited by Campag4life; 11-27-18 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 11-27-18, 06:54 AM
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Guys,
PF30 is not the monster in the room it once was. Screwing respective press fit halves together with bearings integrated into cups are by and large dead quiet.
If you run adequate preload even with spacer reducers from 30mm to 24mm to fit Shimano cranks, they will be quiet.

An interesting revelation on my new Cervelo R3. I pulled the crank off as I was going through the bike. Cervelo as many know uses an 11mm wider version of PF30 know an BBright. Cervelo now has a house brand BB with 'halves that thread together'. I don't expect any noise out of is. Again, this is basically a wide shell PF30.

Here's what's interesting. When I removed the left crank arm, many of you guys have taken Shimano cranks off...this is the new Ultegra 8000 crank which to me is a very sweet crank and would submit, best in class at its pricepoint...what did I see? Cervelo uses a 'wave washer' between left crank arm and their threaded together cup BBright...which again is nothing more than a 11mm wider shell PF30..extended on non drive side for added stiffness to chainstays.

So what up with a wave washer on a 'mechanically adjusted preload'...preload adjusted hand tight with thumbwheel before cinching left crank arm cinch bolts.
This would seem like belt and suspenders right? Why the redundancy? Well, it turns out to be pretty clever. What happens with many press fit applications when 30mm ID bearings are used and spaced down to 24mm Shimano spindle dia is, even with finger tight mechanical axial preload which 'should' load adapters laterally to keep them from creaking, this is not always the case. Further, some just don't get the preload right. What a wavewasher does is 'ensure' there is always a slightly preload on the spacers and the bearing inner races to keep them quiet.

The industry is moving forward you guys after being mired in the weeds for a few years and people struggling with press fit. What has prompted this progress? The aftermarket like Praxis and Wheel Manufacturing who apparently hire engineers to solve the riddle that the big bike brands throw over the wall to their consumers.

So, OP, no better time for Press Fit than the present.
But some designs are inherently more robust or have better workarounds than others. PF30, BB30 and Cervelo's BBright are among the best because they are under a 90mm shell and can have threaded together cups more readily than the 86-90mm wide shell BB's out there.

Sadly, my least favorite BB is on one of my most favorite bicycles...Trek road bikes which as you guys know that own them, they are outstanding...pick one, Emonda, Damone or Madone. I don't like a 90mm wide shell BB with 'carbon fiber' bores designed to have a metal bearing press/slip fit into a carbon fiber BB shell bore, replete with the poor abrasion resistance of carbon fiber. Come on Trek.

Below is the Cervelo brand (likely rebranded from one of the big aftermarket suppliers of BB conversions) BBright that they put on their new bikes. It is basically an outboard cup conversion on the drive side and on the non drive side, the bearing with cup is pressed inside of the shell like conventional PF30. A BB with a split personality, metaphorically speaking of course

How it works is...Cervelo BB shell is 79mm wide and protrusive 'outboard bearing on drive side'...it protrudes by 11mm for ample Shimano cup outboard cup spanner wrench purchase I will add, so net BB width as touted below is 90mm or the equivalent of other wide shell BB's. As a result this width BB requires a long spindle crank be it, Shimano, Campy or a long spindle version of BB30. A pretty sweet design. Threading together respective press in cups basically takes all the creak out of press fit as press fit creaking is generally the result of independent cups squirming around in their respective bore sides of the BB shell.
So to me, Cervelo has answered the bell on addressing the press fit issue of creaking and in fact one of the reasons I bought this bike and not a prev. gen Cervelo which used pressfit BBright with independent cups. Why did they change the design? Because it was needed. Too many creaky BB's out there.

Now, best I can tell, Cervelo uses spacer reducers in this BB. In other words the bottom bracket is spec'ed for a 30mm crank like Rotor which is their house brand and when they sell a bike like mine with full Shimano they use reducing spacers...and....wavewasher to keep them from vibrating/creaking.

Progress is a good thing.
Attached Images
File Type: bmp
Cervelo BBright Connect BB.bmp (4.01 MB, 169 views)

Last edited by Campag4life; 11-27-18 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 11-27-18, 08:01 AM
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Worked in an LBS for a bit

The creaks people complaining about were almost always pedals not the BB.

Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
Would a press fit BB stop you buying a bike nowadays or are they as good as threaded BB's and if it did fail in the future how easy / costly would it be to convert it ... it's a BB 86
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Old 11-27-18, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by raria View Post
The creaks people complaining about were almost always pedals not the BB.
Umm...everything creaks. Even money that BB's creak as much as pedals...and saddles can creak and seat posts within the seat tube, and wheel skewers and a host of other things that resonate on a bicycle.

I have to laugh about any denial. An entire aftermarket was spawned due to bicycle manufacturers that created bicycles predisposed to creak in the BB. There is a reason they have been successful including why Cervelo changed their bikes. The aftermarket makes a product that helps stop creaking. Pinarello for example went so far as to abandon PF30 and went back to BSA. Specialized dumped PF30 on their top of the line road bikes...which they didn't have to. Likely BB30 costs them more that a simple thread together PF30 BB would have resolved. Specialized really showed questionable judgment how they have handled their BB's in the last few years.

Last edited by Campag4life; 11-27-18 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 11-27-18, 11:15 AM
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That BBRight "converter" looks exactly like the Wheels unit I put in my R5 clone. I got it in 24 mm, but there were options.

heavier than two cheezy plastic cups, but rock solid, and if i have to carry an extra 50 grams to get bulletproof reliability ... where else in the frame would I rather put that weight?
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Old 11-27-18, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
That BBRight "converter" looks exactly like the Wheels unit I put in my R5 clone. I got it in 24 mm, but there were options.

heavier than two cheezy plastic cups, but rock solid, and if i have to carry an extra 50 grams to get bulletproof reliability ... where else in the frame would I rather put that weight?
Feel the same way.
If you did a net bike weight analysis and not just the thread together sleeve weight, likely weight penalty isn't that significant. BB30 of course has an insert molded alloy sleeve to create alloy bores for example versus just a 46mm ID virgin hole in the 79mm shell Cervelo coins BBright.
Trek's is uber light but then you get what you get with BB90 which are two metal bearings pressed into carbon bores. Defies credulity a bit that Trek has their BB design.
Its almost like planned obsolescence. Carbon bores are going wear faster than alloy bores...or a threaded sleeve pressed into a carbon bore and even before the threaded sleeve came along BB86 and PF30 both had long leg length cups that pressed in what has to be more solid than just narrow bearings with narrow purchase aka land for alignment... pressed into carbon bores like Trek does it. I find it surprising Trek would hang their reputation on that BB design and it goes back away.

Last edited by Campag4life; 11-27-18 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 11-27-18, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
I don't expect the average guy to understand why Hambini is a bit of a fraud. Don't want to overstate it. But his videos and even his product are a disservice to the cycling industry.

His 'analysis' is bogus and I feel the same way about his product.
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Old 11-27-18, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
I don't expect the average guy to understand why Hambini is a bit of a fraud. Don't want to overstate it. But his videos and even his product are a disservice to the cycling industry.

His 'analysis' is bogus and I feel the same way about his product.
Sounds like you're on the fence with this one
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Old 11-27-18, 12:30 PM
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I bought a new Colnago frame with PF86 BB. Using Campy, all you do is buy the correct cups, since the bearings are on the crank spindle. I was going to loctite the cups in place, but later decided to just grease the carbon bores and press the cups in place. So far, so good. I had a creak a few weeks back, but it was just my rear skewer that wasn't tight enough. If I have a problem, I'll use the loctite, but with Campy cups that are aluminum, the cups might be glued in so well that they can't be removed without damaging the carbon bores, unless you apply some paste wax to prevent a good bond and just use the loctite as a gap filler.

Last edited by DaveSSS; 11-27-18 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 11-27-18, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
Blimey ... those Enduro's are expensive

Since I posted I've been doing some research and found the Praxis, Hope and Wheels Manufacturing ones ..... do they actually convert it to a threaded BB or provide an alternative in between the 2 which is better quality / less prone to squeaking than a press fit and easier to service??
I have the Enduro Torqtite steel bearing version on my gravel bike. It is commonly available at 25% off list price.

I don't know anything about Hope or Wheels Manufacturing.

The Enduro Torqtite and Praxis are full bottom brackets. They are not adapters. They do not convert the frame. They slip into the frame and screw together. Photos of the Torqtite are below. Again, it took literally two minutes to install. Could not have been simpler. The Praxis is a little lighter, less expensive but slightly more complex to install.

This is the PF30 frame.



This is the Torqtite bottom bracket in three parts.



Slid into the bottom bracket shell... Tighten by hand....



Two standard Shimano 8 or 16 spline bottom bracket tools are used to tighten it up. Result...




-Tim-
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Old 11-27-18, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
Sounds like you're on the fence with this one
He is a purported engineer and he basically is slanting his analysis of throwing factory BB's under the bus to shill his own product.
There are so many things wrong with his analysis, not worth dissecting.
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Old 11-27-18, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
I bought a new Colnago frame with PF86 BB. Using Campy, all you do is buy the correct cups, since the bearings are on the crank spindle. I was going to loctite the cups in place, but later decided to just grease the carbon bores and press the cuos in place. So far, so good. I had a creak a few weeks back, but it was just my rear skewer that wasn't tight enough. If I have a problem, I'll use the loctite, but with Campy cups that are aluminum, the cups might be glued in so well that they can't be removed without damaging the carbon bores, unless you apply some paste wax to prevent a good bond and just use the loctite as a gap filler.
Good to hear Dave and nice to see you back on the forum. I always enjoy your technical analysis.
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Old 11-28-18, 08:58 AM
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No, I would not buy a bike with a press-fit BB. I don't care for the design.

That said though, I agree with the comments that many things creak on bikes, and I would not be surprised if most people who thought their BB's were creaking were actually hearing something else.
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Old 11-28-18, 11:09 AM
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Cannondale BB30s had a known creak issue that was easily solved with properly applied Loctite bearing retention compound. (Note I said properly applied - that meant leaving the bearing press in place for 24 hours while the Loctite cured.)

Some press fit BBs still have similar issues, thought it isn't much of a problem, and as noted, there are now amply threaded PF BB options out there.

As for Hambini, I"ve seen some of his videos, and I take them with a grain of salt. He bases broad statements on minimal examples.
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Old 11-28-18, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
Would a press fit BB stop you buying a bike nowadays or are they as good as threaded BB's and if it did fail in the future how easy / costly would it be to convert it ... it's a BB 86
what I like and how i ride means I have no interest in PF BBs.
there is no benefit for me and too many grest options thst interest me which are threaded.

BSA threaded bottom brackets are great for what I like to ride.
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