Bob Dopolina 

I'm think a rim with 23 Internal would be about 27 External. Weight would need to be close to the Archetype with a welded seam to be comparable.

What's the IN WIDTH for the Archetype?

mstateglfr 

17.5mm internal and 23mm external for the Archetype.



since I have your ear, thanks for making a really uncommon but SUPER useful product- the offset rim brake holders.
I built a steel frame last winter, my first one, and mismeasured the rear brake bridge, but didn't realize until after paint while building the bike up. Your offset holders make everything work perfectly.

Seattle Forrest

I've been riding a set of wheels with 25 mm internal width. Pavement, hard packed dirt, and gravel. I have nothing negative to say about those wheels. The stuff you're looking at will work great.

I must be the odd man out. I have a set of HED Ardennes, disc brake, and my opinion is "meh." That's a little unfair because I'm comparing them to stupidly expensive carbon hoops. Those are the two wheelsets I've been on in the last couple years.

motosonic

I'm partial to Easton EA90SLX, but I have a soft spot for the Shimano RS81's, too. But, HED Ardennes are nice as well. All great options for both racing or every day use.

Marcus_Ti

​​​​​
wouldn't be too wide, the problem is finding it...particularly in alloy rims. I think Easton made a 24mm wide internal rim for road pressures for a few years...but that is it. All the other rims that wide are carbon
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Bob Dopolina 

I love it when a plan comes together.

Bob Dopolina 

What about something like this? Maybe 490g?

Bob Dopolina 

Can you buy just the Shimano rims? Link?

Sy Reene

So my $.02 is the gravel bike riders also sometimes want to convert/ride their bikes on road. So I might ask what the narrowest tire you could safely mount on the above.
Even though many have pretty much dismissed the ETRTO charts (below).. for those wanting to run a 40mm tire, why go wider than a 21mm internal -- aero gain?

Bob Dopolina 

Sy Reene

I guess that's kinda what I'm asking. In what way does a 23c rim run a 40mm tire better than eg. a more run of the mill 19-21c rim?
I'd probably myself opt (if I had disc brakes) for something like the DT RR421 rim sizing.

Marcus_Ti

The only thing stopping you is alloy rims. Carbon fiber, this already exists. The problem in finding super-wide rims in alloy is max rated pressure (for road use). Lots of wide alloy rims exist, if you look at MTB rims--BUT, they cannot take even middling pressures. Even HED Belgium+ have a max PSI limit of 90PSI...which for many is "low".

Easton's R90SL is limited to 120PSI...although it isn't as wide
https://www.eastoncycling.com/media/...20pressure.pdf

Bob Dopolina 

Carbonfiberboy 

Another Kinlin XC279 (23 X 28) user. I use these rims for both my fast carbon road bike and our steel tandem. Bigger tires on the tandem. I build them both with CX-Ray spokes, more on the tandem, fewer on the road bike. I like the way the road bike looks with 23mm tires. Looks fast anyway. These rims are nice in that they come in drillings from 20-36, build up easily, and have easy tire changes.

And $50 from bikehubstore.

DOS

redlude97

Seems similar to the Stan's crest or a wider Grail. I'd prefer something in the 30mm deep range if its being marketed for road. Couldn't add that much weight would it?

Marcus_Ti

Would be well over 500g per rim. AForce's AL33 is nominal 505g and 19.6mm internal...so probably more like 530g at least.

https://www.bikehubstore.com/product-p/al33-ceram.htm

redlude97

Yea. Probably close to 600g if its anything like the FLO30 which is 26x30. Which isn't horrible for a rim that wide, assuming you aren't too worried about weight if you are running a rim like that with 28mm+ tires. Otherwise it makes sense to start transitioning to carbon

Bob Dopolina 

All of the above.

A 600g alloy rim seems excessive. Honestly, I think it's just mediocre extrusion but hey, that's just shade.

At that size of rim, carbon kicks alloy's arse. There's just no point.

The doodle I posted would seem more gravel specific. I think 23mm IN WIDTH is far beyond what's practical for road. I think 19-20 IN WIDTH is about the limit for 25c - 28c road tires.

What say you all?

Seattle Forrest

I think it's more complicated than that. The tire width should be matched to the rim width, and who knows what else?

Matt Gaunt

redlude97

I'd say for road there's a market for wide rims matched to wider tires, Rovals, Eastons are 28mm wide? Enve 31? Of course all in carbon and meant to be mated to 28mm+ tires. A 550g 27x~25-30mm alloy rim would probably have a market that overlapped between road and gravel. But carbon rims just make more sense in these widths paired with discs

Marcus_Ti

Yup.

Not sure why Easton seem to have taken their ARC24 off the market:

https://www.eastoncycling.com/produc...ils/arc-24-rim

Seems to be right about what you doodled

DOS

The ERTRO table seems way our of sync with what has become standard practice but I think you also have to factor in that what is 23mm tire on one rim won't be the same on another. I have both Belgium+ and Archetype rims and run primarily 25mm tires on both; but tires blow up considerably wider on the wider rims than they do on the narrower Archetypes. For example, conti 4000s on my Archetypes blow up to about 25mm but more like 28mm on the HED rims. I am now running tubeless on the HED rims and my 25mm tires blowup to almost 30mm while 23mm tires expand to 26mm or so. What limited research I did on this seems to indicate that running wider rims yields more air volume in the tire, which results in better handling and lower rolling resistance as compared to same tire on a narrower rim. On the aero side, on my Schwalbe tubeless tires, a calculator I found showed that the ideal aerodynamic configuration for Belgium+ was to run 23mm because it created uniform profile with the tire so minimized turbulence. Haven't a clue if any or the this is born out by actual science (but when have the views of strangers on the internet ever been wrong?), but I like my Archetype rims and really love my HED rims with tubeless. Very plush ride. At the moment I am running 23mm on the front and 25 on the back to have more tire under my fat ass.

Editing to add this link to an article on web page of the wheel builder from whom I bought my HED rims: https://sugarwheelworks.com/blog/how...tire-size.html

Nessism

I just ordered some Pacenti Forza rims from bikehubstore.com. They have a nice package discount with CX-Ray spokes. I realize that Pacenti had some cracking issues with their older rims but the Forza's have been beefed up and I like the idea of the offset rear. At any rate, that's the path I've chosen so we'll see.

The rims that seem to hold almost universal acclaim are the HED Belgium C2 & Plus, and the Easton R90 SL. There are other excellent rims as referenced in this thread too so the decision on what to go with can cause information overload if you are the analytical type. On the other hand it's hard to go wrong these days so...