Trainer realistic road feel - why important?
12-06-18, 08:32 AM
#27
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Also, regarding the mind-numbing issue of riding a trainer/rollers. Unless doing a recovery ride where I'll just watch TV or a movie, I always watch a structured workout training video. This however keeps duration down to one hour or less. For years I used the CTS videos, but currently, I really like the GCN workout videos filmed in Italy. ...And they do have a few really good Sweet Spot sessions.
Last edited by Clipped_in; 12-06-18 at 09:16 AM.
12-06-18, 09:09 AM
#28
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Part of my professional business career was software simulations of electric power plant control rooms. We made simulator / trainers for the operators to use to practice upset / failure modes and effects so that they would know what to do in the real world - millions of dollars to develop.
In aviation, airline and military pilots have flight simulators that allow them to get certified to fly new aircraft and flight against bogies. Those simulators are equal to takeoffs, landings. flight and combat - 10s of millions of dollars to develop.
If smart trainers and associated software and hardware reach the point that they simulate riding a bike in real world outdoor situations then there is no difference between simulation / fantasy and reality. Once parity is achieved, one can ask the same question about simulation or reality. Can one overtrain / burnout on simulation? Yes. Can one burnout or overtrain on the road? Yes.
IMO, it would be fantastic if the brave new world of smart training and video would provide real pack training skill sessions so riders could brake and coast and read the pack and if they make a mistake, crash out unharmed and do it again and again.
If I were to criticize indoor simulation on the bike is that it may be creating neuro muscular response that is NOT correct for the road and puts riders at risk in packs. But that is a big reach. I see over training and burnout risk equal inside and out.
In aviation, airline and military pilots have flight simulators that allow them to get certified to fly new aircraft and flight against bogies. Those simulators are equal to takeoffs, landings. flight and combat - 10s of millions of dollars to develop.
If smart trainers and associated software and hardware reach the point that they simulate riding a bike in real world outdoor situations then there is no difference between simulation / fantasy and reality. Once parity is achieved, one can ask the same question about simulation or reality. Can one overtrain / burnout on simulation? Yes. Can one burnout or overtrain on the road? Yes.
IMO, it would be fantastic if the brave new world of smart training and video would provide real pack training skill sessions so riders could brake and coast and read the pack and if they make a mistake, crash out unharmed and do it again and again.
If I were to criticize indoor simulation on the bike is that it may be creating neuro muscular response that is NOT correct for the road and puts riders at risk in packs. But that is a big reach. I see over training and burnout risk equal inside and out.
Oh and about recovery rides, I totally agree. I have come to the point where all my recovery rides are on the trainer. The controlled environment goes a long way toward making them what they are supposed to be.
My current trainer is sort of a hybrid resistance roller/fixed trainer that lock the forks and lets the back end move. The resistance isn't super consistent (not like the KK I had), but good enough and I don't have the bike feel issues that I did after riding a conventional fixed rear wheel trainer. Plus, it is super portable and it doesn't wear out my rear tire.
Last edited by Clipped_in; 12-06-18 at 09:48 AM.
12-07-18, 07:27 PM
#29
Señor Blues
Great post! I was thinking the same thing about pack training as I have been contemplating doing some Zwift group rides (on my dumb trainer) to see if it would mix things up and make doing 2 or more hours on the trainer bearable.
Oh and about recovery rides, I totally agree. I have come to the point where all my recovery rides are on the trainer. The controlled environment goes a long way toward making them what they are supposed to be.
My current trainer is sort of a hybrid resistance roller/fixed trainer that lock the forks and lets the back end move. The resistance isn't super consistent (not like the KK I had), but good enough and I don't have the bike feel issues that I did after riding a conventional fixed rear wheel trainer. Plus, it is super portable and it doesn't wear out my rear tire.
Oh and about recovery rides, I totally agree. I have come to the point where all my recovery rides are on the trainer. The controlled environment goes a long way toward making them what they are supposed to be.
My current trainer is sort of a hybrid resistance roller/fixed trainer that lock the forks and lets the back end move. The resistance isn't super consistent (not like the KK I had), but good enough and I don't have the bike feel issues that I did after riding a conventional fixed rear wheel trainer. Plus, it is super portable and it doesn't wear out my rear tire.
12-07-18, 07:51 PM
#30
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That’s cool, I like it. Tell me more about your setup. Did you fabricate it or is it a commercial product?
12-08-18, 06:28 AM
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12-08-18, 07:29 AM
#32
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Yeah, realistic road feel isn’t important for doing training workouts on a stationary, but becomes important for those who like to “ride” on stationaries.
Good training regimens yield stationary workouts which net power/Kj expenditures in one hour which are equivalent to typical 2hr road rides. Without all the factors that interrupt road ride intensity, like lights, traffic, uneven roads, wind and without coasting, stationaries are highly efficient and effective at producing focused workouts.
When not doing structured workouts or trying to replicate road rides, I see realism as being a legit consideration, and without doubt, if you’re just turning the pedals, it adds dimension to an activity lacking structure.
Personally I have no desire to spend 2 or more hours on the trainer; I want to hit my training goals and be off in an hour or so, usually less: I’m terrified to think that indoor riding could someday be simulated to the point of blurring reality, because I like being outside on the bike and all that comes with it...including the risk of getting hurt. Risk/benefit analysis yields richer results when skin is in the game.
Good training regimens yield stationary workouts which net power/Kj expenditures in one hour which are equivalent to typical 2hr road rides. Without all the factors that interrupt road ride intensity, like lights, traffic, uneven roads, wind and without coasting, stationaries are highly efficient and effective at producing focused workouts.
When not doing structured workouts or trying to replicate road rides, I see realism as being a legit consideration, and without doubt, if you’re just turning the pedals, it adds dimension to an activity lacking structure.
Personally I have no desire to spend 2 or more hours on the trainer; I want to hit my training goals and be off in an hour or so, usually less: I’m terrified to think that indoor riding could someday be simulated to the point of blurring reality, because I like being outside on the bike and all that comes with it...including the risk of getting hurt. Risk/benefit analysis yields richer results when skin is in the game.
12-08-18, 08:50 PM
#33
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I feel fortunate to live in a climate that doesn’t completely negate riding outside on the road. There have been a few times, due to schedule, I have done two plus hours on the trainer. It is not my favorite thing to do.
12-10-18, 09:32 AM
#34
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And yes, Feedback Sports Omnium. I am not affiliated with Feedback in any way, I just like their products.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO54mJA6M3o#action
Last edited by Clipped_in; 12-10-18 at 09:55 AM.
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