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Another Dang Saddle Thread (Super Duper Narrow Arione or Toupe)

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Another Dang Saddle Thread (Super Duper Narrow Arione or Toupe)

Old 12-05-18, 05:55 PM
  #1  
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Another Dang Saddle Thread (Super Duper Narrow Arione or Toupe)

I've got a Arione VS (relief channel) on one bike, measures 132 wide. It's not a perfectly comfortable fit but it's about the best I've found so far. No 3+ hour rides yet though. I bought a 125mm Arione for the second bike and set it up with the same specs. I prefer the 125mm saddle width but it has no relief channel and I can't handle it after 45 minutes. I've been wanting to try a 130mm Toupe or a 128mm Bontrager Montrose but I'm just flat out tired of buying saddles. So buy another 90% comfortable Arione VS or move on to the next option?

Background:
I've had an older Toupe before in 143 but had some saddle sores. I've tried other non cutout/non relief saddles and no success, but thought I'd at least try the Arione. My sitbones measure 90mm. I'm not even joking.
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Old 12-05-18, 07:28 PM
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Just ride without a saddle. You will build leg strength, certainly.

I wouldn't expect a relief channel to make that big a difference. if the narrow saddle numbs you, i'd play with saddle positioning. If you have narrow hips, I'd expect a wide saddle to rub .... but you didn't mention where the saddle sores were starting. Also saddle shape matter a lot. it also matters if you slide around a lot on the saddle or plant your but and pedal.

And none of us can really offer any help---you know that. Look for stores with a try-and-buy" policy ... . some stores I have heard of will let you ride a saddle for a while so long as you eventually by A saddle from them. Or, shop used .... or, decide that losing use of your dangling modifiers is worth saving the cost and hassle of finding the right seat.

You pretty much know you need a narrow saddle, which puts you way ahead of most saddle shoppers. But when you say "I bought a 125mm Arione for the second bike and set it up with the same specs ... " I worry. obviously you will need a slightly different saddle position ... it is a different bike and a Different Saddle. Play with it before you replace it. let it break in a little. Adjust the tilt and stuff. Fit it to You and the The Bike ... not to some different saddle on some different bike.

One of my bikes has one of those 100-gram unpadded CF saddles---obviously no relief channel---and I find it is good for about a metric century so long as my legs hold out (i.e. can hold me up so i don't sit on the saddle like a sofa.) I Never have numbness issues in my naughty bits---the pain comes where my bones press against the unpadded CF. When I am doing a longer ride on that bike and I know my legs are weak, I wear a set of bibs with a double chamois--and I think bib fit can have as much to do with numbness as the saddle.

As you know, ultimately you are going to have to keep shopping until you find the right one. There simply is no option. It's good that you are narrowing down the options.
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Old 12-05-18, 08:30 PM
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I used to suffer from saddle discomfort as well during long rides until I stumbled on to the Selle SMP Dynamic. It also has the relief channel you speak of. I don't even notice it anymore while riding. If you are looking for another option, I highly recommend them. They have different models dependent on your sit bone measurements.



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Old 12-06-18, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Just ride without a saddle. You will build leg strength, certainly.

I wouldn't expect a relief channel to make that big a difference. if the narrow saddle numbs you, i'd play with saddle positioning. If you have narrow hips, I'd expect a wide saddle to rub .... but you didn't mention where the saddle sores were starting. Also saddle shape matter a lot. it also matters if you slide around a lot on the saddle or plant your but and pedal.

And none of us can really offer any help---you know that. Look for stores with a try-and-buy" policy ... . some stores I have heard of will let you ride a saddle for a while so long as you eventually by A saddle from them. Or, shop used .... or, decide that losing use of your dangling modifiers is worth saving the cost and hassle of finding the right seat.

You pretty much know you need a narrow saddle, which puts you way ahead of most saddle shoppers. But when you say "I bought a 125mm Arione for the second bike and set it up with the same specs ... " I worry. obviously you will need a slightly different saddle position ... it is a different bike and a Different Saddle. Play with it before you replace it. let it break in a little. Adjust the tilt and stuff. Fit it to You and the The Bike ... not to some different saddle on some different bike.

One of my bikes has one of those 100-gram unpadded CF saddles---obviously no relief channel---and I find it is good for about a metric century so long as my legs hold out (i.e. can hold me up so i don't sit on the saddle like a sofa.) I Never have numbness issues in my naughty bits---the pain comes where my bones press against the unpadded CF. When I am doing a longer ride on that bike and I know my legs are weak, I wear a set of bibs with a double chamois--and I think bib fit can have as much to do with numbness as the saddle.

As you know, ultimately you are going to have to keep shopping until you find the right one. There simply is no option. It's good that you are narrowing down the options.
The relief channel or cutout is apparently something I can't live without as several saddles have proven so far. The Arione I matched to the Arione VS because both bikes are essentially the same, Giant Propels, and then made micro adjustments from there. I'm ready to try any other saddle really, I'm just not ready to drop loads of money to do it. I've been buying used from eBay and reselling the same way. I don't have any shops in the area with a decent try/buy policy, but thanks for the suggestions.

Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
I used to suffer from saddle discomfort as well during long rides until I stumbled on to the Selle SMP Dynamic. It also has the relief channel you speak of. I don't even notice it anymore while riding. If you are looking for another option, I highly recommend them. They have different models dependent on your sit bone measurements.



I've always heard good things about the Dynamic but I guess I've stayed away on looks alone. Maybe it's time to give it a shot if it comes narrow enough.
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Old 12-06-18, 04:08 PM
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fabric line
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Old 12-06-18, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by zoolzoo View Post
fabric line
Tried it. Really wanted that saddle to be the one, blue line matched the bike perfectly.
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Old 12-07-18, 03:26 AM
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Selle San Marco produces a range of saddles with cutouts and width in the 130-135 mm range. Check out the Aspide, Squadra, Era and Mantra.
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Old 12-07-18, 04:01 AM
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Dunno if it'll work for you, but various 130mm (or are they 131mm?) Selle Italia saddles have been good for my narrow butt. The tricky bit is setting up the angle (needs to be perfectly level for me) and fore/aft position. When I scoot back I want the ischial tuberosities snugged into the curve just where the saddle flares -- not actually sitting *on* the flared and more padded bit, just snugged against it.

And I seem to prefer a flatter saddle and long nose to scoot forward for climbs or downhill blasts. So far I'm not getting along with any kind of curved saddle, notably the popular Selle Turbo and anything similar to it.

I have a low priced but excellent Selle Italia SLS Kit Carbonio, the cheapest of that particular design from 2-3 years ago. No perineum relief channel but it's been fine for rides up to 50 miles. That's the limit for my aching neck (old C2 injury) but no problems with the saddle bones.

I noticed a similarly designed older Selle Italia in the bargain bin at the LBS, but with a full relief cutout and split rear section so it can flex quite a bit. They threw it in free with a tool purchase. It's been on my hybrid/mountain-bike lite, which is slowly morphing into a sporty city bike/faux-path racer. I'm having a wee bit of sitbone ache after 30 miles, but that was wearing jeans and with the albatross bar upright. I'm betting lowering the bar height a bit, and scooting the saddle back just a bit will help.

Can't say for sure whether I actually need a perineum relief channel or cutout. I seem comfortable with some pressure on the perineum, while the relief channels seem to transfer more pressure to the sitbones. But it may be a matter of tiny adjustments, just 1/8" fore/aft, maybe a tiny angle adjustment depending on how much the saddle flexes under weight. And saddle height, although I change that slightly when my knees and lower back/hips tell me to. Varies with the shoes and pedals.

I'd considered the SMP but I'm not sure I'd get along with the hammock type design and commitment to a single sitting position. Same reason I'm a little hesitant about the Selle Anatomica -- those have been comfy when I borrowed a friend's bike for a test ride around the block, but it's hard to say how it would feel after a long ride. I'm accustomed to scooting around a bit on a flatter saddle, so I'm not sure how I'd like a hammock type saddle. But if it's comfy for my usual 20-50 mile rides, that's fine.

I just ordered a Selle Italia Q-Bik, the closest thing they've made in a comfort saddle with a sport configuration, although the nose dips slightly. But it has the perineal relief hole, not just a channel. The Q-Bik is generally available under $30 and Nashbar just had it for $22 with free shipping, so I bought from them. But the Q-Bik was available only in something like 140mm. That's okay for me with more upright bikes, but not with a drop bar road bike. Should be okay with the hybrid project I'm working on.

BTW, a friend has switched to ISM and similar noseless time trial type saddles. He's one of the stronger riders I know, hardly ever misses a day outdoors or on Zwift, and by last year was getting saddle sores. He ditched the Fiziks and similar saddles. He says so far, so good with the ISM and similar noseless saddles with big cutouts or completely split left/right halves. Next time I see him I'll try to keep up long enough to check his riding position. But I doubt I'd be able to hang on for long even drafting. (Earlier this year when I nearly equalled his fastest times on a few popular segments, he offered to give me a leadout to try to beat his PR and KOM. I laughed and said "How is it a leadout if I can't keep up with YOU?!!" He's a good fella, enjoys going fast but isn't vain or possessive about his KOMs. Really encouraged me since I moved up from a comfort hybrid three years ago to a road bike now.)

Last edited by canklecat; 12-07-18 at 04:08 AM.
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Old 12-07-18, 06:03 PM
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SMP has info that recommends saddle width, partly on your normal (low weight) waist measurement. With my 30-32 inch waist, the narrowest SMP was a possibility. The Stratos model with standard padding worked well.

https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com...ll-about-smps/
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Old 12-10-18, 04:32 AM
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Update on the Selle Italia Q-Bik saddle I mentioned a few days ago. (Disclaimer: I'm a fan of the Selle Italia road saddle configuration, so I may be biased. They just fit me right.)

Short version: Outstanding value for $30 or less. Worth a try if you can still find one. I may have purchased the last one Nashbar had for $22, free shipping.

Many customer reviews described it as uncomfortable -- most of those folks rode comfort hybrids and mountain bikes. The positive reviews came from roadies who wanted something a bit more comfortable without going overboard into plush padding. I've been used to minimally padded road bike saddles and the Q-Bik is just darned comfy without feeling like an overstuffed recliner. No aches after an hour on the trainer or 30 miles Sunday night in the cold wearing jeans. I tend to sit heavily in the saddle on the trainer, and while riding the hybrid on casual group rides, rarely standing to sprint, climb or relieve butt pressure. If a saddle is gonna be uncomfortable it'll show up soon in those conditions.

It's basically a comfort version of the moderately firm SLS Kit Carbonio I've ridden all year on my road bike and really like. And it follows the familiar Selle Italia style that goes back a few years -- I also have an older, well worn Selle Italia made, Kuota branded split-rear saddle that's still useful.

The Q-Bik is just a bit wider at the widest flare, 140-145mm, but fits my narrow sitbones where it counts -- the curve between the nose and flare where the ischial tuberosities nestle most of the time. It feels the same in the sweet spot as my other two Selle Italias that measure wider at the flared rear, but about the same where the sitbones actually nestle.

Where the SLS Kit Carbonio and most Selle Italia road saddles are basically flat with very slight up-angle toward the rear, the Q-Bik has a slight nose dip and more of a hammock type flexibility mid-saddle. The thickest padding is on the widest, flared rear. This should suit my preferences for my hybrid, which is gradually being converted to a faux-path racer configuration (although I plan to use the albatross bar upright, but with a longer, lower stem -- subject to change at whim). I pedal very differently on this bike compared with my road bike so I want a few options for sitting. The hybrid has longish 175mm cranks (172.5 on the road bike), platform pedals (Look delta clipless on the road bike). I always wear padded shorts or bibs on the road bike, rarely on the hybrid -- usually jeans or baggy shorts, occasionally with winter tights or even long underwear, but rarely padded shorts or liners. I vary my position a lot on the hybrid, scooting forward and leaning forward near the stem for climbs and headwinds, shoving my butt back onto the widest part of the saddle for seated sprints, etc.

The Q-Bik shell flexes more than the SLS Kit Carbonio, about the same as the older Kuota branded Selle Italia (which has little padding). The flared rear isn't split but flexes as much as my split-rear Kuota label SI. That's good. The padding is firm and probably will never "break in" -- that's also good. I like it the way it is now.

If necessary -- if I develop saddle sores, rash or perineal discomfort -- I could swap the Q-Bik over to my road bike without saddle shock. It should be quite comfy with my barely padded Aero Tech Pro shorts, with their thin black and tan microfiber faux-chamois that is more like old school leather chamois than it is the current gel or progressive foam type pads.

It's 270 grams, not as light as my other two Selle Italias (those are closer to 200 g) but no matter, I wouldn't notice the difference since my road bike weighs 24 lbs and my favorite hybrid closer to 30 lbs.

The saddle arrived Saturday from Nashbar in less than a week after my Sunday night order. Very prompt, free shipping, great deal for $22. Alas, they're sold out but the Q-Bik is still available as unsold old stock from a few retailers, but seems to be almost depleted.

If you don't mind tossing another $20-$30 at a saddle this one might be worth a few bucks. If nothing else it'd be great on an indoor spin bike or sporty hybrid. I was on the verge of ponying up for a Selle Anatomica but I think the Q-Bik just saved me about $75.
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Old 12-10-18, 09:39 AM
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@canklecat, thanks for the update and excellent review of the Q-Bik. I looked around and it seems I can get one on eBay pretty easily, but I've also seen a few other options from Selle Italia that look very similar in profile but also come in a more narrow 131mm option. As far as I remember, I don't think I've tried one of their saddles yet, but I've just noticed the Canyon Grail AL I plan on buying early next year comes with a Selle Italia X3. I will let you know how it turns out after a few rides. Thanks again!
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Old 12-14-18, 02:12 PM
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Short update on the first Selle Italia SLS ride. 2:15 and 50 miles on the rollers with a few stops for adjustments. The saddle is mostly comfortable but I can tell it's still slightly wide at 131mm. I started to feel pain in the sitbones about 30 miles in. I noticed I was moving around a lot and standing more than usual in the last 20 miles. The cutout is nice and I definitely don't have any of the pressure issues from a solid saddle. Honestly the saddle reminds me a lot of the 143 Toupe I had a while back. Same fit and feel. However the 132 Arione VS on the other bike still feels more narrow than this saddle so I wonder if it's just not where it takes a sharp transition between its widest point and the nose. Perhaps a few more micro adjustments are in order.


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Old 12-14-18, 02:19 PM
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Beautiful bike!

Selle SMP Dynamic....I'm telling ya, you need to try it.
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Old 12-14-18, 03:31 PM
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yeah, that is a really sharp bike. Too bad it hurts to ride it.

Someday, your saddle will come.
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Old 12-14-18, 03:41 PM
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Another saddle touting thread.. Rolls/Turbo & Brooks Team Pro..
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Old 12-15-18, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
Beautiful bike!

Selle SMP Dynamic....I'm telling ya, you need to try it.
I've looked for a cheap used one to give it a shot but no luck so far. I also realize that if I were to move into a different price point, I may find that magic saddle but with my track record, I don't think I'm ready for that yet. I haven't been losing too much buying used and reselling through eBay.

Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Another saddle touting thread.. Rolls/Turbo & Brooks Team Pro..
I've never considered the Brooks saddles due to the look and the vintage market they play to but I see they have a fairly narrow modern looking saddle with a cutout now.
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Old 12-15-18, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by str8jakett View Post
Short update on the first Selle Italia SLS ride. 2:15 and 50 miles on the rollers with a few stops for adjustments. The saddle is mostly comfortable but I can tell it's still slightly wide at 131mm. I started to feel pain in the sitbones about 30 miles in. I noticed I was moving around a lot and standing more than usual in the last 20 miles. The cutout is nice and I definitely don't have any of the pressure issues from a solid saddle. Honestly the saddle reminds me a lot of the 143 Toupe I had a while back. Same fit and feel. However the 132 Arione VS on the other bike still feels more narrow than this saddle so I wonder if it's just not where it takes a sharp transition between its widest point and the nose. Perhaps a few more micro adjustments are in order.




2+ hrs on rollers is a pretty severe test for a new saddle.
I also prefer narrower saddles, & steer away from ones with a rapid transition from wide area to nose like your Sella Italia.
Another vote for SMP. I have a couple used available: Composite- 128mm, no padding. Glider- white, 130mm, padded. $80 ea
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Old 12-15-18, 02:56 PM
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FWIW, I've found that when using the indoor trainer (Cycleops) I'm more comfortable in my thickest padded shorts. I tend to sit more heavily in the saddle on the trainer. Outdoors I can get by with thinner padding because I'm supporting more weight on my legs to offset rough roads. And the road chatter seems to help a bit with circulation. Or maybe I'm just moving around a bit more on the saddle.
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