Shimano 12 Speed Road
12-26-18, 06:43 AM
#26
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if i am not mistaken, the Campagnolo 12S is 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29 or 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-28-32... this gives the advantage of all of the first 7 cogs have a one tooth difference, and then the ability to go to a bail out gear for all the climbing you can ever want to do. when i went to a 11 speed (with a 50-34 compact) iit took me forever to get used to the gearing because of the crankset gearing jumps. I think this will help make a compact crank more palatable gear ratio wise
12-26-18, 09:50 AM
#28
Senior Member
As I get older, I find the desire for a 32 growing. I use the 29 when in the seirra foothills a lot. In fact I did an uphill TT 2 weeks ago, where I spent over an hour in the 29. And when trying to go fast downhill I would love to get a 11. (I have a 12-29 now). My issue stems from the way the gear table shakes out with a compact crank. Somewhere I think I could probably go mid compact and 11-32 to get better ratios, and use cross over gearing less.
12-26-18, 10:12 AM
#29
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12-26-18, 10:23 AM
#30
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Even on that climb, 11-32 was way bigger than I needed.
12-26-18, 11:44 AM
#31
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While I have never climbed it the vast majority of my team and my coworker has many many times. It's not as steep as the stuff we have in the midwest but the duration is the killer. Hope I find out someday.
Anyway - yeah a 12-26 / 11-26 is pretty much all we use around here and even then you can make a case for a 1x with a 50 or 52 in front. The bailout is the small ring.
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12-26-18, 12:54 PM
#32
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I have done s couple of climbs around here, that look similar to that one (strava research) and 34-29 worked for me, but i still need to shed about 8-10 KG to get my power to weight ratio more in line with what would work better! goal for 2019 is 3.5 watt per Kg! currently more like 2.7 on a good day.
12-27-18, 01:48 AM
#34
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cheers
12-27-18, 09:10 AM
#35
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I can’t for the life of me work out why the only 12t high gear option available across component brands now is the 12-25. I spend 90% of my riding time between the 14 and 19, and if I had it, I’d probably get more use out of a 20 than an 11. But roads get into double digit gradients here and stay there for quite a while in some places, and I do need my granny gears from time to time.
Last edited by Leinster; 12-27-18 at 09:14 AM.
12-27-18, 10:21 AM
#36
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I love how you guys talk about your 28/29 “Granny Gear”. My granny gear is a 34. I don’t ride with that cassette all the time, but if there is a lot of climbing to do, I put it on.
12-27-18, 12:25 PM
#37
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Lots of angst here over gearing....
But I am reading that there is little appetite for folks to spend hundreds of dollars to get one more cog as a marginal gain. I think the bike industry shtick of adding another cog every 7 years to churn up some sales, and convince gullible early adopters to 'upgrade' is tapping out.
For rolling terrain and long climbs, the solution is a triple. As a Xmas present to myself I just bought a 10-year old KHS roadie off of Craigslist. $200. Shimano Tiagra 9 by 3 drivetrain. As with all used bikes, you should assume every part of the drivetrain is egregiously worn-out; it was, and this factored into the price.
Being short on 9-speed cassettes, I hobbled together a 14-28 cassette from loose cogs, and installed 30/39/53 rings.
I love this bike. I've been a climbing fool for the last few days, exploring hilly rides that I formerly avoided.
Ditching the useless 11 & 12 tooth cogs provides more gearing choices than on my 10-speed bikes. I spend 90% of my time in the middle ring.
Another discovery: how smooth are the older Shimano shifters with the exposed cable housing runs. Why exactly did Shimano put the cables under the bar tape, and introduce a bunch of extra friction? Pure pointless aesthetics? Anyway, the shifting on this bike is cleaner than my 2 new bikes with Shimano 5800.
But I am reading that there is little appetite for folks to spend hundreds of dollars to get one more cog as a marginal gain. I think the bike industry shtick of adding another cog every 7 years to churn up some sales, and convince gullible early adopters to 'upgrade' is tapping out.
For rolling terrain and long climbs, the solution is a triple. As a Xmas present to myself I just bought a 10-year old KHS roadie off of Craigslist. $200. Shimano Tiagra 9 by 3 drivetrain. As with all used bikes, you should assume every part of the drivetrain is egregiously worn-out; it was, and this factored into the price.
Being short on 9-speed cassettes, I hobbled together a 14-28 cassette from loose cogs, and installed 30/39/53 rings.
I love this bike. I've been a climbing fool for the last few days, exploring hilly rides that I formerly avoided.
Ditching the useless 11 & 12 tooth cogs provides more gearing choices than on my 10-speed bikes. I spend 90% of my time in the middle ring.
Another discovery: how smooth are the older Shimano shifters with the exposed cable housing runs. Why exactly did Shimano put the cables under the bar tape, and introduce a bunch of extra friction? Pure pointless aesthetics? Anyway, the shifting on this bike is cleaner than my 2 new bikes with Shimano 5800.
12-27-18, 12:28 PM
#38
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I’ve since seen bigger mountains, and know better. But I still consider anything 30 and above at the back, or less than 1.5 wheel turns, to be a granny. Not that I use the term in a bad way; if Alberto Contador can put a 30 on the back, so can I.
12-27-18, 01:06 PM
#39
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I’d happily add the 29, but have no desire for an 11.
I can’t for the life of me work out why the only 12t high gear option available across component brands now is the 12-25. I spend 90% of my riding time between the 14 and 19, and if I had it, I’d probably get more use out of a 20 than an 11. But roads get into double digit gradients here and stay there for quite a while in some places, and I do need my granny gears from time to time.
J.
12-27-18, 06:21 PM
#40
Senior Member
Shimano 12 speed XTR has already debuted.
Shimano's 12 speed road group will happen sometime in calendar year 2020. Campy already has 12 speed, SRAM has 12 speed Eagle, Shimano has 12 speed XTR. It'll be the norm in a couple of years.
I don't see the point of complaining about it. If you don't want it, don't buy it.
Shimano's 12 speed road group will happen sometime in calendar year 2020. Campy already has 12 speed, SRAM has 12 speed Eagle, Shimano has 12 speed XTR. It'll be the norm in a couple of years.
I don't see the point of complaining about it. If you don't want it, don't buy it.
12-27-18, 07:44 PM
#44
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The only appeal for 12sp, to me, would be if I ran 1x.
and since shimano isnt the trendy brand for 1x, as well as i have no desire to use 1x on my road/gravel/touring bikes, there is no actual appeal to me for Shimano road 12sp.
adding another cog within an 11-28 cassette or even an 11-34 cassette holds no appeal.
for 1x it would be useful as a 12th cog in an 11-42t cassette helps make the jumps a bit smaller.
I could see 12sp being successful for road if only because it'll be used for new bikes and those with upgradeitis.
if someone wants new Ultegra for example, they would have to get the 12sp. And simce I think very few seek out something like Sora as an upgrade(even if it moves to 10sp), if a bike is running 8sp for example and the owner wants to upgrade, they will often go for the newest(12sp) but not the ultimate(duraace).
and since shimano isnt the trendy brand for 1x, as well as i have no desire to use 1x on my road/gravel/touring bikes, there is no actual appeal to me for Shimano road 12sp.
adding another cog within an 11-28 cassette or even an 11-34 cassette holds no appeal.
for 1x it would be useful as a 12th cog in an 11-42t cassette helps make the jumps a bit smaller.
I could see 12sp being successful for road if only because it'll be used for new bikes and those with upgradeitis.
if someone wants new Ultegra for example, they would have to get the 12sp. And simce I think very few seek out something like Sora as an upgrade(even if it moves to 10sp), if a bike is running 8sp for example and the owner wants to upgrade, they will often go for the newest(12sp) but not the ultimate(duraace).
Campy introduced 12 speed this year. No one seems to care.
12-28-18, 07:41 PM
#45
Senior Member
Reading through the posts in this thread reminds me of when 7 speed came out, then 9 speed and after that 10 and 11 speed. What, who needs it? I see no need for it. Etc, etc, etc. At this point there really is no real need other than introducing a new standard which will replace the standard that came before it dictating replacement of equipment in x number of years as it is no longer supported.
I am still running 2x5 speed on my daily rider, and 3x6 speed on my touring rig. Has always worked well for me. I will say, at some point in the next year I will have a new touring frame and will spec with something modern and up to date. Be it 10, 11 or 12 speed is to be determined.
I am still running 2x5 speed on my daily rider, and 3x6 speed on my touring rig. Has always worked well for me. I will say, at some point in the next year I will have a new touring frame and will spec with something modern and up to date. Be it 10, 11 or 12 speed is to be determined.
12-28-18, 07:55 PM
#46
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I for one am very much looking forward to a 12 speed road setup. I would like a 48/32 up front and a 10-32 in the back. I will be able to climb anything and still have the upper range of a standard crankset with a tight group.
12-29-18, 08:49 AM
#49
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The only worth while upgrade I’ve seen for bikes in the past years has been electronic shifting, Di2 etap etc. I have zero regrets jumping in with both feet on E-shifting upgrade.
12-29-18, 02:55 PM
#50
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Otherwise ... 12-speed will just be the new standard a few years hence.
How the gearing will run, and all that, no one knows. I'd stick another gear in the middle of an 11-32 or run a super-tight 12-28 ... I am sure some options will be provided.
But that is a few years hence, and I cannot even see a need to go to DI2 anytime soon.