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Can't keep my feet warm

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Can't keep my feet warm

Old 12-24-18, 08:45 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Bmach View Post
I don’t get the bag thing. Seems like wet feet would contribute to getting cold feet. I would look into cycling boots if your feet are cold.
Vapor barrier works by letting the skin get wet and keeping the insulating layers dry. Nothing, no matter how woolly or poly, is as effective at insulating when it’s damp. If you’re in neoprene rubber rubber booties, that sweat isn’t evaporating, anyway. Definitely effective and one forgets about the slimy feeling.
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Old 12-24-18, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
This is what I do, except I place the handwarmers between the outside of my road shoe and shoe covers. Works pretty well.
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Old 12-24-18, 10:52 AM
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+1 to those suggestions about shoes being too tight, or wearing too many socks to make it a tight fit. I took that suggestion a couple years ago...to just wear normal, not tight socks, and then maybe a shoe cover. When it's a tight fit the circulation is restricted which contributes to feeling cold. I actually just have a couple pairs of black socks that I pull on over the shoe. Sometimes I put a plastic back over the toe of the shoe before pull the sock over it...just to toe. Works are a windbreaker, but still can ventilate.

Dan
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Old 12-24-18, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
cpl yes ago I got a larger helmet that fits better w warm head-ware. Iíve also modified a balaclava w scissors
I did the same. My feeling about the balaclava is that it's a necessary evil under certain conditions. And no way it's going to cover my mouth while riding..

Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Vapor barrier works by letting the skin get wet and keeping the insulating layers dry. Nothing, no matter how woolly or poly, is as effective at insulating when itís damp. If youíre in neoprene rubber rubber booties, that sweat isnít evaporating, anyway. Definitely effective and one forgets about the slimy feeling.
I've actually used neoprene socks. They don't breathe. One might think it's perspiration, but it's really condensation that builds up. And I can't stand it, I'd rather my feet be a little cold. The neoprene socks have been in storage for years at this point.
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Old 12-24-18, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by on the path View Post
I did the same. My feeling about the balaclava is that it's a necessary evil under certain conditions. And no way it's going to cover my mouth while riding..



I've actually used neoprene socks. They don't breathe. One might think it's perspiration, but it's really condensation that builds up. And I can't stand it, I'd rather my feet be a little cold. The neoprene socks have been in storage for years at this point.
I have used them as a vapor barrier with some insulating properties, over liner socks and thought they were okay. You can call it condensation and it does condense on the first impermeable layer it finds, but sweat glands are the only route by which noticeable amounts of water can pass through cornified skin.



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Old 12-24-18, 01:25 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post


https://www.staywarmed.com/best-rech...nsoles-review/

I've never used anything like this, and I'm not vouching for it. Just letting you know it exists.
Already exists. I use these in my ski boots, fit into my custom footbeds. You can also get an extension cord which would allow you to put the battery in your pocket (in skiing world, they attach to the power strap on your boots). They work great in ski boots, and some swear by them in cycling but I've never needed them but they would have been nice at subzero fahrenheit temps.

J.
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Old 12-24-18, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by _ForceD_ View Post
+1 to those suggestions about shoes being too tight, or wearing too many socks to make it a tight fit. I took that suggestion a couple years ago...to just wear normal, not tight socks, and then maybe a shoe cover. When it's a tight fit the circulation is restricted which contributes to feeling cold. I actually just have a couple pairs of black socks that I pull on over the shoe. Sometimes I put a plastic back over the toe of the shoe before pull the sock over it...just to toe. Works are a windbreaker, but still can ventilate.

Dan
Exactly right. You need a wind barrier and light insulation. Too tight = cold and cold fast.
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Old 12-24-18, 08:17 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
If you use two bags like I suggested in my post above, one against your bare skin, one on the outside held snugly in place with a thin dress dock, yes your feet are wet. But the only heat lost from our body is the heat in that small amount of sweat and a very small amount of heat to warm a thin plastic bag. Since the sock on the outside is dry, very little heat is lost through the inside sock.

By contrast, if you only use an outside bag, if your feet sweat at all, you dampen the sock(s). That moisture provides a pathway for heat, pulling heat out of your foot.

Try it. You don't have to believe me. (But do make sure your shoe is big enough. As others have said, tight fitting shoes = bad. Nad two bags and that thin outside sock take some room.)

Ben
Some backpackers do a similar trick sleeping in the wild. They call it a "vapor barrier" and swear by it. Sounds unpleasant to me but people who know their stuff say otherwise.
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Old 12-24-18, 08:21 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
Already exists. I use these in my ski boots, fit into my custom footbeds. You can also get an extension cord which would allow you to put the battery in your pocket (in skiing world, they attach to the power strap on your boots). They work great in ski boots, and some swear by them in cycling but I've never needed them but they would have been nice at subzero fahrenheit temps.

J.
Somebody needs to make them wireless and with induction charging. Probably not possible with current battery tech.
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Old 12-24-18, 08:31 PM
  #35  
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I use whole foot heat packs from walmart. 1.98$ per use but they last 11 hrs in my shoes. Not roasty warm but not noticably cold.
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Old 12-24-18, 09:04 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by 02Giant View Post
I recently received a pair of Grip Grab brand, Arctic Deep Winter Shoe Covers, I ordered based on a recommendation from @TimothyH.
On a recent 26 degree morning, I wore them over my least ventilated road shoe over a mid-weight merino cycling sock on an 70 minute ride. For me they worked great. Typically at that temp, my feet have gone numb. This was with a few of the name brands cold weather covers.
A bit $$. Worth it to me.
Where'd you get the Grip Grab shoe covers? A quick internet search turned up only sellers in Europe. Thanks.
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Old 12-24-18, 09:10 PM
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By my experience the big enemy is the spd plate sucking through the insole. Lots of 'insulated insoles' don't have enough to fight it without adding heat. The top is curable with covers, however.
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Old 12-24-18, 09:37 PM
  #38  
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Yup, I know that feeling. My toes get froze really easily.

Unfortunately my Scott Road Pro shoes are really summer shoes and very snug fitting. My feet are long and narrow, size 11 and A or B width in most sizes. Hard to find shoes of any kind that fit right but the Scott shoes are great. But only with a single pair of thin socks.

Even with a double pair of thin socks it's pushing the comfort limits. I've already replaced the original insole with a better insole -- ProFoot Miracle, very lightweight, single piece, full length, much more comfortable, no vents or detachable supports. Very slightly thicker than the original insoles, just enough to make it impractical to use thicker microfiber winter socks.

So when the temp reaches 50F I'll wear thin sandwich or snack baggies over my toes/socks. And Pearl Izumi lightly insulated full length shoe covers. Unfortunately the PI shoe covers are so snug the pressure on the top of the shoe across the Velcro toe strap cuts off circulation to my little toe. I may need to modify the toe strap to minimize that problem.

One trick I tried last year worked really well for insulating, although it wasn't very comfortable: aluminum foil, over the socks or between pairs of socks. The wrinkled foil over my toes bothered me after about an hour.

This winter I'm going to trim the foil using the insole as a template and put the foil under the insole. Shouldn't add any noticeable thickness and will help block the vents and reflect body heat better.

But if your shoes have a large enough toe box, try wrapping aluminum foil around your toes or entire foot.

I'm betting a shoe cover using foil Mylar would work well, but I haven't found any using that material. It wouldn't be flexible so fitting would be tricky. It would need to be zipped on or use closures that minimized stretching and pulling across straps, buckles and laces.

Last edited by canklecat; 12-24-18 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 12-24-18, 10:15 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by gevad View Post
Where'd you get the Grip Grab shoe covers? A quick internet search turned up only sellers in Europe. Thanks.
I ordered them through Bike24 in Germany.
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Old 12-24-18, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
If you use two bags like I suggested in my post above, one against your bare skin, one on the outside held snugly in place with a thin dress dock, yes your feet are wet. But the only heat lost from our body is the heat in that small amount of sweat and a very small amount of heat to warm a thin plastic bag. Since the sock on the outside is dry, very little heat is lost through the inside sock.

By contrast, if you only use an outside bag, if your feet sweat at all, you dampen the sock(s). That moisture provides a pathway for heat, pulling heat out of your foot.

Try it. You don't have to believe me. (But do make sure your shoe is big enough. As others have said, tight fitting shoes = bad. Nad two bags and that thin outside sock take some room.)

Ben
Makes sense now, but not for me. Iím lucky, my feet donít get cold. Normal socks and my booties and Iím good to 10 above.
Thanks for the explanation.
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Old 12-24-18, 11:05 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Somebody needs to make them wireless and with induction charging. Probably not possible with current battery tech.
The wires are between the battery and the heating element. No way to really get rid of that.

Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post

Vapor barrier works by letting the skin get wet and keeping the insulating layers dry. Nothing, no matter how woolly or poly, is as effective at insulating when itís damp. If youíre in neoprene rubber rubber booties, that sweat isnít evaporating, anyway. Definitely effective and one forgets about the slimy feeling.
Iíve done this with nitrile gloves in my mitts while skiing. Helps marginally, but the gross factor and stink factor is significant enough to rule it out for me. There are other better ways to stay warm. If my hands stink, Iíd shudder to think about feet and hygiene in general.

Layering on your hands is far more effective. There are over-mitts you can buy which go over your regular gloves/mittens and add another way to prevent air movement and keep warm and limit bulk. Phew.cc makes some cycling gloves that are just that. Amazingly warm without bulk. The principle applies
to regular gloves and over-mitts too.

Iíve tried it all especially in skiing down to -32F. During the winter Iím often outside for hours on end in rescue work so Iíve had a lot of experience at this sort of thing.
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Old 12-25-18, 06:04 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post

The wires are between the battery and the heating element. No way to really get rid of that.



Iíve done this with nitrile gloves in my mitts while skiing. Helps marginally, but the gross factor and stink factor is significant enough to rule it out for me. There are other better ways to stay warm. If my hands stink, Iíd shudder to think about feet and hygiene in general.

Layering on your hands is far more effective. There are over-mitts you can buy which go over your regular gloves/mittens and add another way to prevent air movement and keep warm and limit bulk. Phew.cc makes some cycling gloves that are just that. Amazingly warm without bulk. The principle applies
to regular gloves and over-mitts too.

Iíve tried it all especially in skiing down to -32F. During the winter Iím often outside for hours on end in rescue work so Iíve had a lot of experience at this sort of thing.
Havenít done it for the hands, but Iíve lived in vapor barrier socks for days at time, snowshoeing and skiing in single digit weather and sailing. No stink (YMMV), just wrinkly, white feet and only one thin wet layer to dry at night or off watch.
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Old 12-25-18, 09:00 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post

Havenít done it for the hands, but Iíve lived in vapor barrier socks for days at time, snowshoeing and skiing in single digit weather and sailing. No stink (YMMV), just wrinkly, white feet and only one thin wet layer to dry at night or off watch.
simply unnecessary. We get serious cold here and never ever needed to do this.
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Old 12-25-18, 10:59 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
If you use two bags like I suggested in my post above, one against your bare skin, one on the outside held snugly in place with a thin dress dock, yes your feet are wet. But the only heat lost from our body is the heat in that small amount of sweat and a very small amount of heat to warm a thin plastic bag. Since the sock on the outside is dry, very little heat is lost through the inside sock.

By contrast, if you only use an outside bag, if your feet sweat at all, you dampen the sock(s). That moisture provides a pathway for heat, pulling heat out of your foot.

Try it. You don't have to believe me. (But do make sure your shoe is big enough. As others have said, tight fitting shoes = bad. Nad two bags and that thin outside sock take some room.)

Ben
+1
Thatís an old trick, I learned it from some ice/mountain climbers.You donít want to sweat down your insulating layers if you are going to spend days in freezing temperatures w/o the ability to dry your shoes and clothes.
Some winter campers even use a big plastic bag as liner for the sleeping bag for the same purpose. You trade a little comfort every night to avoid the big discomfort of freezing.
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Old 12-25-18, 11:03 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post


https://www.staywarmed.com/best-rech...nsoles-review/

I've never used anything like this, and I'm not vouching for it. Just letting you know it exists.
Not too fond of that type, they add too much thickness to the insole IMO. I prefer the kind with the battery pack clipped to the shoe or strapped to the ankle.
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Old 12-25-18, 11:07 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Somebody needs to make them wireless and with induction charging. Probably not possible with current battery tech.
Iíve seen ones controlled by an app. Not seen induction charging.
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Old 12-25-18, 11:13 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post

simply unnecessary. We get serious cold here and never ever needed to do this.
Itís not really about how cold it gets. Itís about how much moisture that can get trapped in and degrade the performance of the insulating layers. Which is partly personal, partly how long you have to go between being able to dry your kit.
If youíre only out a few hours at a time, with good drying conditions inbetween, itís fairly easy to do without. But some sweat more and may need more preventative measures earlier.
Iíve started using surgical gloves innermost for full day outings to keep from sweating down my gloves or mitts. Looks weird, works fine.

Last edited by dabac; 12-25-18 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 12-25-18, 11:30 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
Already exists. I use these in my ski boots, fit into my custom footbeds. You can also get an extension cord which would allow you to put the battery in your pocket (in skiing world, they attach to the power strap on your boots). They work great in ski boots, and some swear by them in cycling but I've never needed them but they would have been nice at subzero fahrenheit temps.

J.
Donít think youíre talking about quite the same stuff.
You can get loose heating elements to attach to any soles. Therm-ic and Hotronic being two common brands that have/had those features. The soles in the pic is a finished, integrated item. Disassembly and transfer of functional items to another pair of soles would be fiddly.
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Old 12-25-18, 01:38 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by dabac View Post

Donít think youíre talking about quite the same stuff.
You can get loose heating elements to attach to any soles. Therm-ic and Hotronic being two common brands that have/had those features. The soles in the pic is a finished, integrated item. Disassembly and transfer of functional items to another pair of soles would be fiddly.
I guess where I'm going with this is that there is not that much extra room in either my cycling shoes or ski boots to use this. Putting the heating element - which is about the thickness of a piece of construction paper, typically doesn't disrupt fit at all. PCBs and batteries do. I would have to believe that rules it out for most users unless they specifically buy the shoes with that in mind. Besides that, I have customized my insoles in both my cycling shoes and my ski boots which rules it out for me at least.

J.
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Old 12-25-18, 01:44 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by dabac View Post

Itís not really about how cold it gets. Itís about how much moisture that can get trapped in and degrade the performance of the insulating layers. Which is partly personal, partly how long you have to go between being able to dry your kit.
If youíre only out a few hours at a time, with good drying conditions inbetween, itís fairly easy to do without. But some sweat more and may need more preventative measures earlier.
Iíve started using surgical gloves innermost for full day outings to keep from sweating down my gloves or mitts. Looks weird, works fine.
I understand.

Let me put it to you like this - I spend up to 8 hours or more hours at a time out in temps the can be as low as -32F and have never had use to vapor barriers. I've stayed nice and warm while doing that too. So again, I see this is as completely unnecessary.

I have tried the nitrile gloves under my mittens and while it sort of works, the hygiene issues are more than enough reason for me to forgo doing that. Instead, putting a windproof over-mitt over my mittens or gloves has worked super well and kept me warm. Personally, I think using vapor barriers which trap moisture close to the skin but keep it from being wicked away are just asking for it from a hygiene perspective. Keeping your core warm by using layers properly keeps your extremities warm and is where most people go off the rails.

J.
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