torger

Yeah, one key the difference here is that he actually sees the guy on the bike, adding some knowledge into the mix. But there are also other things to take into consideration, such as how easy the knee/elbow overlap becomes to manage, and how close the knees get to the bar when climbing and sprinting. With shorter functional reach those issues get more pronounced. The modern aero tuck with horizontal forearms and hands on the hoods also changes the fit dynamics a bit, also calling for adequate reach. A fit is about weighing together several factors, many which are contradicting. It's also the case that master fitter X that has done thousands of fittings will have quite different opinions from master fitter Y that has done thousands of fittings, that's because bike fitting is just as much an art as it is a science. In all cases they make their evaluations when having full information at hand rather than making wild assumptions.

torger

I'm truly sorry if that is what you honestly feel. I may have misinterpreted your intentions, but I think your comments in this thread speak for themselves and I don't think my reaction to them should be a surprise. Up to other readers to judge.

It's not that I think I have nothing to learn. I have lots to learn. But I do know enough so I can sift through what is good advice, and what is advice based on too much assumptions.

And here's a free unsolicited advice from little me -- when someone asks a question about alloy vs carbon wheels, don't give advice on bike fit.

What I have primarily learnt from this thread, in addition to the helpful answers to the original question, is that one should never post images of one's own bike

rubiksoval

I know an expro/elite amateur/national team member that rides with his hoods up higher than the OPs. I also know an ex-national champ who rides with his hood levers so low they point almost backwards. Both of whom are/were far faster than anyone on this forum. There's a Dutch pro rider that gained exposure at one of the classics last season because he rides something like 32mm track handlebars.

Fit it science and art. But it's also comfort, and preference, and a host of other things. To berate someone for the way they set up their bike is ridiculous. ESPECIALLY when it has zero to do with the thread.

rubiksoval

This so many times over. Go to three different fitters and pay $200 bucks each and you can get three completely different fits.

It's so much b.s. A "master" fitter is a bit of an oxymoron.

Fitting is a long-term process that no one is going to nail on a first attempt.

Campag4life

We can further dissect your pathology if you like, but you have already shown a proclivity to not accept advice...or just take it at face value from a guy who knows...not a little more about bike fit than you...but a lot more. Me. Sorry. But with all your misunderstanding of not only spirit of the advice but your repudiation of it, this whole thread is a pathetic reminder from the beginning. Your premise. Putting carbon wheels on that bike. Even considering it.

All kind of fits really. Twisted logic meet twisted handlebar.

Real question is, do you think the rider of this bike...a Bianchi who has his bars too far away and rotated back...also an Italian bike with undeniable pedigree...is he a cousin of yours...but moreover...should he get his teeth fixed? That is the true litmus test of your judgement. Should the drapes match the curtains or not?

Campag4life

I wasn't berating him. He berated me for offering advice.

Basic courtesy.

I know a lot of this will go over people's heads. An attempt. Some will understand. Its for them. For example, I believe Rube you should go old school and adopt Eddies' old position. Note how nice and even his drops were. What goes around comes around.

torger

Phew, trolling me does obviously work to some extent as I haven't stopped replying to this thread despite I said I would a few posts back, but now it just reached ridiculous levels. Although I wouldn't recommend it, anyone can read the thread from start to finish and form their own opinion on what happened here. I'm not going to argue about who's started what and who's showing bad behavior or not.

I've made my statements about the fit and fit in general, and that I think it's perfectly okay to give an old race bike a new life with modern components and non-elite fit to be ridden by a recreational cyclist. Some vocally disagree. I'll leave it as an observation.

To finish on a high note, here's Francesco Moser showing good position on the bike in a classic win from the time our expert learnt bike fit:

Campag4life

And his drops were usable...unlike...sorry you. Point of commenting on your bike you elected to post. Btw, I will now post one of my bikes that I currently have on the stand for quick cleaning and gear/tune check. Notice the handlebar position. Correct ergonomics is the point. Handlebar is positioned as was intended by the designer. My fit is not aggressive...only a couple of inches of drop. I am old.

Btw, Chi thought shallow drops were wrong on your classic Colnago. I see his point but I am not in that rigid a camp. I believe its ok to run a compact bar on a classic bike. To coin a car analogy...call it a resto-mod. Old meet new. I was commenting on your bar position is all.

As to the video of Moser hammering... like Lemond, both were known for their freakish flexibility and even reverse camber back angle. What an asset that would be going fast but few enjoy such supernatural genetics.

And lastly, to answer your question that no doubt many are somewhat flabbergasted you asked about putting carbon wheels on your Colnago, carbon wheels are a complete waste of money unless you are racing or trying to keep up with your group ride. They 'generally' have poorer ride quality than Al wheels for the reasons I explained earlier.

BillyD

rubiksoval

Except riding in the drops is slower and I don't do it unless I'm doing very aggressive cornering or sprinting.

So that's not coming around at all.

Chi_Z

it is only slower if your bar is so low you have to increase flexion of the hip to its extreme thus decrease your power output.

rubiksoval

Wrong.

Chi_Z

you win

rubiksoval

Indeed. Real bike races, too.

BillyD

downhillmaster

Seattle Forrest

You seem to have this exact problem with a lot of different people.

rubiksoval

I really do love these bikes.

My first real "team" bike was a blue/orange Colnago Dream Plus. Same lux paint scheme as above.

My favorite part is the top tube/head tube junction with the painting of the rider with one arm in the air. My inspiration over many a miserable training ride.

torger

a bit too many logos and a bit too many colors is a whimsical bonus you get with these bikes. But actually that fork could have more Colnago text on it, the painted steel forks often have a Colnago text that can be seen from the front. Now the only way to tell it is a Colnago if it's coming right at you is the logotype on the head tube, and the text is tiny on that

Kimmo 

Given the vertical rigidity of any wheel that isn't falling apart, there's no real-world variation in ride quality between wheels, no matter the material or design.

The only exception is as noted in the first reply, changing the width changes the shape of the tyre.

Psimet2001 

..... That and this tel me all I really need to know....

As for the original discussion of carbon wheels being more comfortable....

Remember some things. We use carbon simply because it allows us to obtain shapes that, if done in aluminum, would be much heavier and not as strong. It's not a metal. As a composite it brings with it some properties that some find beneficial. Some don't. Through the use of changing resins and additives in the resins other things can change as well.

So we use carbon to obtain shapes. Shapes lend themselves to properties on their own - area moment of inertia kind of stuff. Think I -beam vs solid beam. You can have all sorts of shapes. Those shapes will have all sorts of properties that will impact how a rim rides and feels. Much of that is simply due to how it changes how a tire fits or conforms, or how much air volume there is now.

All of this simply to say that asking if carbon wheels are more comfortable is akin to asking something like "are Fords faster"? It's simply a question that can't be answered without some fairly extensive context.

In general do I find that rims of roughly the same shape running the same tires, etc exhibit any real difference in ride feel? I would say yes. Early on in the carbon marketing literature we used to call this kind of stuff "shock absorbing" or "compliance". In reality it's just a bit of a feel. Like a car with a nice suspension that still handles quickly.

Can you get that same feel by throwing on bigger tires with soft compounds on a super stiff alloy wheelset? Sure. So It's all relative.

That being said - take someone who has never ridden carbon and put them on nice carbon wheels and ask them if they like them.

In general aluminum isn't given the credit it deserves as an amazing material for bicycle wheels. People are greatly dismissive of them when they in fact can easily represent one of the best solutions for most anyone's riding.

Then again - I make wheels. I can ride just about anything and yet I think I have carbon on almost every bike. So for me to say that there isn't a difference that is real enough to make me select them over aluminum would be disingenuous.

rubiksoval

All you really need to know about what? You messed up the quoting there. I don't have a Colnago Master whatever. That wasn't my quote. My quote centered around riding in the drops "coming back around", but it's not.

Riding in the drops is not the fastest way to ride. That's pretty well known by most everyone that has an interest in riding fast.