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Shimano phasing out 11/23 cassettes?

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Shimano phasing out 11/23 cassettes?

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Old 02-13-19, 06:05 PM
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CliffordK
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Shimano phasing out 11/23 cassettes?

I guess I'm a bit old-school, but I was surprised to see that the 11/23 cassettes aren't listed on the CS-9100 pages.

There still seem to be quite a few old stock CS-9000 11/23 cassettes around, but those could dry up quickly.

TT/Triathlon bikes?

The cassettes seem to mach well with the 50/34 cranksets that companies seem to be pushing.
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Old 02-13-19, 07:26 PM
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Seems to be.

I discovered this a year ago when I was installing a Di2 system and found the 11-23 I was using wasn't an option.

It"s not an option at the Shimano site either.
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Old 02-13-19, 11:07 PM
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If it is no longer selling and making a profit for Shimano, then it would be a good business decision.
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Old 02-14-19, 02:54 AM
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11 speed isn't "old school".

I still use 7 speed cassettes and 5 speed freewheels.

If you look beyond Shimano, there are other brands such as Sunrace and Sram, individual cogs can also be easily swapped.
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Old 02-14-19, 11:02 AM
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Makes sense. Fewer SKUs is more profitable. Someday, they'll only make 11-34 cassettes, but with enough cogs in the middle to satisfy everyone.
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Old 02-14-19, 01:21 PM
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Probably have a 3rd party source , you looked for any?
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Old 02-14-19, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Makes sense. Fewer SKUs is more profitable. Someday, they'll only make 11-34 cassettes, but with enough cogs in the middle to satisfy everyone.
At that point, they will convince us that 23 cogs won't be enough. We will need 1/2 step gears.
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Old 02-14-19, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by SHBR View Post
11 speed isn't "old school".
You mean you haven't adopted 12 speed yet?

What I would say has changed over the years is a steady increase in cassette size.

30 years ago, when 5x2 & 6x2 were king, most high-end road bikes were outfitted with something like 13x21 or 13x23 freewheels.

It was only the department store bikes that might have 14x30 or so freewheels, and triple cranksets.

Ok, so I'm a masher, and learned to climb hills by standing up and working. And, never was satisfied with 13T or so for the high end (I like the new 11T cassettes).

I generally neither seek out, nor avoid hills. On average, I get just under 1000 meters climbing per 100 miles riding. According to Strava, I tend to find myself much lower on the challenge climbing rankings than challenge distance rankings.

Anyway, yes, "old school" in the sense of not rolling pie plates on the back of the bike.

Originally Posted by SHBR View Post
If you look beyond Shimano, there are other brands such as Sunrace and Sram, individual cogs can also be easily swapped.


Might also add Campagnolo to the list, especially for Titanium/steel hybrid cassettes (albeit expensive). But, yes, it is likely that another company will pick up the slack.

Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Makes sense. Fewer SKUs is more profitable. Someday, they'll only make 11-34 cassettes, but with enough cogs in the middle to satisfy everyone.
I think it makes a lot of sense not to make an 11/21 straight block, 11 speed.

I think the "fewer SKUs" really makes a difference in the business model.

I'd assume on new bikes, that 11/23 isn't particularly popular in the hillier regions. But, may still be popular in Florida and some of the flatter regions. As well as the TT/Tri crowd which may have flatter fast courses.

If one's business model is to keep stock in LBS stores, then fewer stores will buy an expensive cassette that moves slowly.

Likewise, the cassette may not be picked up by a lot of OEM manufacturers, other than the TT as mentioned above.

On the other hand, if the model is to sell to big online distributorships like Ribble/Wiggle/etc, then I'm sure they don't like dead stock, but they may well be happy to sell an expensive cassette or two a week.

I believe the 9100 is virtually identical to the 9000 cassette including quite a few shared part numbers, and if they already have the 9000 tooling, it should take very little work to retool for the 9100.



I thought Campagnolo was going to 10T cassettes, but it looks like their new Super Record 12-speed cassettes are only currently offered in 11-29 and 11-32.

SRAM's new "Red-12" is coming out shortly. Not a lot of details, but photos seem to indicate a 10-28 cassette in the works, with fairly tight gearing, and two "escape sprockets".

I may have to resign myself to large cassettes.
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Old 02-14-19, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Probably have a 3rd party source , you looked for any?
3rd party Shimano, or 3rd party other brand?

https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-CS-9000-3324B.pdf
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-CS-R9100-4065.pdf

The R9100 added an 11/30 cassette, but dropped the 11/23.

Shimano has supported some of the older cassettes, but not necessarily overlapping offerings.

The CS-6800 also has a 11/23 cassette, but not the CS-R8000



SRAM Red 1190 also seems to go directly to 11-25 (as well as a very similar 11-26)
https://www.sram.com/sram/road/produ...-1190-cassette

But, their monoblock does sound interesting. Not great for mixing and matching, but light, and apparently it has good steel.

SEQLITE has an 11-23, probably 1 chain per cassette. But, it seems rather rare.

https://guide.alibaba.com/shop/seqli..._75196855.html
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Old 02-14-19, 04:58 PM
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Because that’s just a corn cob straight gearing at 11-23t 11 speed.

.... and no one is racing anymore so it has little to no real use or appeal to any actual market. Road is Dead.
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Old 02-14-19, 06:09 PM
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Lots of companies want a slice of the replacement parts market, so making Shimano compatible spares is kind of a no brainer..

checked Italian aftermarket stuff yet?
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Old 02-14-19, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Road is Dead.
I concur

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Old 02-14-19, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Because that’s just a corn cob straight gearing at 11-23t 11 speed.

.... and no one is racing anymore so it has little to no real use or appeal to any actual market. Road is Dead.
Picky, but ... a 12-23 12-speed is a straight block. Gotta go 13-speed to get the 11-23. I know, I ride Cycle Oregon on my fix gear with a 12-23 12-speed "cluster". (Every cog on a wire loop Two cogs then get taken off and put on my wheel and for the big hill days a third gets strapped onto the tool bag.)

My favorite cassette of all time is 12-23. Now I am in the backwoods still riding 9-speed so I have to choose between the 13t cog and the 18, The 18 usually wins since i ride alone. Love the 12 for big downhills. Running a triple, 14-19 straight then 21, 23 is pretty sweet, especially on long climbs.

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Old 02-14-19, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
You mean you haven't adopted 12 speed yet?

Ok, so I'm a masher, and learned to climb hills by standing up and working. And, never was satisfied with 13T or so for the high end (I like the new 11T cassettes).

Anyway, yes, "old school" in the sense of not rolling pie plates on the back of the bike.

Might also add Campagnolo to the list, especially for Titanium/steel hybrid cassettes (albeit expensive). But, yes, it is likely that another company will pick up the slack.

I think it makes a lot of sense not to make an 11/21 straight block, 11 speed.

SRAM's new "Red-12" is coming out shortly. Not a lot of details, but photos seem to indicate a 10-28 cassette in the works, with fairly tight gearing, and two "escape sprockets".

I may have to resign myself to large cassettes.
If you want to burn money on esoteric cassettes, I'm sure someone can machine a cassette as well.

I'm not a fan of the friction that 11T cogs create, and they don't last that long either if used regularly.

Bigger chainrings are also an option, and probably more cost effective, as larger chainrings tend to outlast every other drivetrain component.
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Old 02-15-19, 08:20 AM
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The only thing gained with an 11-23 is the 18T cog. If you analyze the percentage of change from the 11 to the 17, each shift becomes progressively smaller. An 18-19 shift is only a 5.3% change, compared to the 8.3% change from 11 to 12. If the rider can't tolerate a 5 rpm change in cadence, more practice is needed. Of course, the 17-19 shift is 10.5%, but it's either that or the shifts keep getting smaller and smaller. Those who ride a lot of hills or the mountains, know that larger percentage changes are welcome on the climbs.

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