Psimet2001 

I can't wait for the industry to get off it's ass and realize that most people in the road and cross world use multiple wheelsets on the same bike and that current disc systems are just not built for that.

Neutral race support has become a complete joke in this regard. If your team isn't behind you with a wheel or you didn't bring your own int he wheel truck or in the pits then you get a neutral bike with flat pedals until they can figure out which setup you have and rotor size and thru axle not to mention how many gears and what system you have anymore. It's changed the sport of road racing already and definitely for the worse in this regard. If it saves someone from dying on a descent then who am I to judge.

....but we don't have descents in Illinois.

noodle soup

All of this is true, but it's irrelevant to the cyclist that doesn't race.

the axle issue is insane

Psimet2001 

At least we have gotten to 12mm and 12x142...now we just need to standardize the way it attaches to the bike.

WhyFi

Thread pitch, you mean? Yeah, that'd be nice.

Psimet2001 

Thread pitch, axle length, or even attachment style. Some now are expanding collet retention systems instead of captive threaded systems, etc.

WhyFi

So you're saying that it might suck if you lose your axle?

Psimet2001 

Yes that would suck...but more so I am saying there are so many variants the chances of having what is needed in a neutral race support vehicle is nill. I deal with Van Dessel as a dealer and even with them we have 2 major standards of axles and then 2-4 variants of the non-speed release ones.

Mavic's speed release is a promising idea and technology but I would know nothing of it if it wasn't for Van Dessel going that way and I just simply don't see it being adopted across the board.

Marcus_Ti

I did like Shimano's e-thru attempt....I suspect it is going the way of the DoDo, sadly.

WhyFi

Understood, I guess I'm just not understanding why you'd need one from a neutral support vehicle unless you lost yours in a wheel change.

Canker

https://www.amazon.com/Syntace-Disc-.../dp/B001PTBPY0
There you go problem solved.

Don't give a rat's butt about the racing part.

Psimet2001 

In most grassroots racing a lot of racers don't bring backup wheels. Whether by knowing or not they just don't. Sure that's their problem but.... the role of neutral race support has been to bring replacement wheels. Every circuit race we have in the Intelli Cup has the NRS car chasing. They don't have rider's own wheels loaded in (not a wheel truck in other words). In this scenario if you're on disc - and you flat - you lost. Whether you had wheels with you that day or not.

Comes up in cross all the time as well. The first time we see a Tour contender lose a big chunk of time because their team car wasn't in the right place and all the neutral services were no help will be the time that companies start taking the interchangeability of their systems seriously. Until then they apply the same thinking as mtb to road and it just doesn't work.

Psimet2001 

We shim rotors all the time for racing packages for cross where it's needed. It's nothing new. The issue is the size and lengths of the system axles as well as the tool needs/thread pitches, etc.

Walk up to any bike with quick release...ever. Now do the same with 2 or 3 thru axles form the last 2 or 3 years. It's a problem for those of us for whom it's important. You can say you don't care about racing but what happens in racing WILL dictate what will happen in the technology and has for quite a while.

HTupolev

In 2019, if I was looking for a new frame, adherence to standards is probably the main reason that I would consider going custom.

WhyFi

Still not following. If I buy a new TA wheelset, it doesn't come with axles - you use the axles that come with your bike. If you need a neutral wheel at a race, it's the same deal, no? If I need a 100/12mm and they have a a 100/12mm, I pull my axle out, swap wheels, shove my axle back in, same as when I swap between wheelsets at home. In what scenario would support need to provide an axle as well?

Psimet2001 

For the most part that is correct. Where they would need to provide you with an axle would be in the case of Mavic Speed Release. The axle becomes captive in the hub and travels with the wheel.

The other issue is that you're not the one changing your wheel in most instances. While you know your front axle needs a 6mm hex wrench and is bent slightly so it sticks when it's at whatever position, or your retaining nut has been warped by the 2mm set screw so it locks the axle up at a certain thread position but doesn't actually bottom out... Some are quick release cams that then lock and un-thread. some are retaining collets that if you try to un-thread will come completely apart.

To the initial point though the biggest problem has been 9mm, 10mm, 12mm, 15mm TA variants and 140mm or 180mm rotors and having to adjust the caliper position because of a massive change in position (CLD to 6 bolt for instance).

It's just not something that can happen in less than a few second anymore. I have watched NRS respond with only giving out bikes for the riders to jump on.

Psimet2001 

I don't think that means what you thought it means...

Maelochs

This. Discs aren't widely accepted among the GC contenders, from what I have seen ... (though I have only seen the Tour Down Under this year, and there were some riders on discs .... but i didn't pay much attention.)

Teams already realize that a slow wheel change could lose a Grand Tour ... if we thought of it a couple years ago, trust,me, they thought of it before that. It hasn't happened, and might never---because no team would want to take that gamble. The first time it does, if it ever does .... no GC contenders will ride discs until a new standard is promulgated.

prj71

They'll just change the bike instead of doing a wheel change.

https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...o-racing-2018/

mstateglfr 

This has been responded to, but I still thought it would be helpful to mention something that may have not stuck out- there have been calipers capable of handling a wider tire and there continue to be calipers capable of handling a wider tire. I have some that can take a 35mm tire- the tires just need topping off(the last 30psi, really) once mounted on the bike.
Quality midreach calipers and long reach calipers works great. The reason they arent popular is mostly because the bike companies dont design frames for the calipers anymore. I use mine on a frame I built so the clearance was planned into the build. An effective 30mm tire has a boatload of room still.

mstateglfr 

If someone doesnt like disc brakes, go custom/handbuilt and get rim brakes. Itll be more expensive, but itll be exactly what you want. Less need for that overly stiff beefed up fork, etc. The material weight is higher, but there is less overbuilding and lighter components, so the net result will be a a pound or so more. Pretty trivial penalty.

Psimet2001 

As I mentioned this will be the trend in the future at some point. All the cool kids will be running rim brakes.

Kapusta

mstateglfr 

For sure- they can become more wiggly as the arms get longer. Simple physics n whatnot. The long reach TRP calipers I use are significantly better feeling than some long reach Tektro calipers Ive used(briefly). Im pretty sure its like most things in cycling- the more expensive and better designed product will perform/feel better.
But yes, there is a point where a different brake style is better than caliper. Totally agree.

Kapusta

colnago62