UmneyDurak

Is zwift worth it without smart trainer? Just with regular trainer, but with power meter (speed, cadence, and hr too of course).

I guess the feedback from zwift won't be there, but how important is it?

Mainly just looking to make work outs on a trainer "easier" and more "fun". Right now I watch TV, but tend to space out, power drops, miss power targers.

Thanks

Dean V

I know plenty of people that have been more motivated to do indoor training with Zwift but still using a "dumb" trainer.

str8jakett

I use Zwift with dumb rollers and a power meter and it's the only thing that's ever held my dedicated attention and motivation for an entire season of winter indoor riding.

BluFalconActual

jpescatore

On business travel I've used a laptop running Zwift and a PowerCal heart rate monitor/power "sensor" to ride Zwift on stationary bikes in hotel and gym exercise rooms. Personally, the lack of connection from what I saw on the screen to what the resistance felt like was a deal killer - that was the same reason videos and a dumb trainer never worked for me, either.

But, Zwift in that mode is kind of like videos that are always changing - if all you needed over videos was more variety, then dumb trainer Zwift will give you that.

For home use, $500 (I guess more like $600 now) for a smart trainer was worth it for me - I kind of think of it as paying $25/month for Zwift vs. $15...

colnago62

redlude97

Are you planning on just riding around, or doing specific workouts or group rides/races? A smart trainer helps with intervals, and helps keep you in the pack in groups because you can respond when others surge due to grade changes

OBoile

This is exactly what I have. It works fine. The only real difference is that your resistance doesn't change when you go up/down hills. Your speed still changes to reflect the power your doing or course.

I've never used a smart trainer, so I can't say how much better or worse it is, but I can say that Zwift with this setup is far better than just watching TV.

caloso

I've been doing Zwift for awhile using the PM (and a BT bridge heartrate monitor) on a dumb trainer. I've never used a smart trainer so I don't know what I"m missing, but I don't think it's much. I actually was in the market for a new trainer this year and came very close to buying a direct drive trainer, but what killed the deal for me was that most of the time I'll use the trainer to warm up for races and I didn't want something that I had to plug in.

So I got a Kinetic Road Machine. It calculates your wattage based on drum speed and a power curve. Compared to my Quarq, it runs about 5% high and has a bit of a lag so it doesn't respond immediately to short, sharp efforts. But it means that I can do Zwift with any of my other bikes without a PM.

Also if you're mostly using Zwift in workout mode, you really don't care what other riders are doing so getting dropped when there's a surge isn't that big of a deal.

OBoile

While there's no erg mode, there's nothing stopping someone from doing intervals on a "dumb" (is that what we call it?) trainer. I do them twice a week. You have to focus a bit to make sure you're doing the correct power, but in a way that helps pass the time.

Would you be able to expand a bit on how a smart trainer helps with responding to surges?

ksryder

Entirely personal preference. For me, it is not worth it without the smart trainer (I've used it with both). Without the change in the resistance simulating outdoor riding, it's just another thing on the screen. I got a lot more out of TrainerRoad when I had a dumb trainer.

But as others on this thread have shown, many people enjoy using Zwift without a smart trainer. Horses for courses.

redlude97

Sure, but erg mode just makes it easier. Generally when you hit an incline in zwift everyone's w/kg briefly jumps as the resistance ramps up as our tendency is to try to maintain cadence. If you're on a dumb trainer and don't anticipate an upcoming grade you'll often drop back and potentially out of a draft as power yoyos for those on smart trainers. Generally you'll find a trainer difficulty setting that allows you to respond to terrain changes without require too much change in effort and/or shifting. I think most people race on ~40% difficulty

OBoile

Interesting. Thanks.

surak

I trialed Zwift for a week with rollers and a PM. To make it more realistic, I proactively shifted gears to match grade. I felt it was pretty engaging and that engagement seems to be backed by the data -- I just started digging into Golden Cheetah and noticed that my Zwift week was also when I got the biggest jump to my LTS (fitness) compared to a month of TrainerRoad and two months of the Sufferfest that bookended that trial, and without purposely pushing to go hard.

Canker

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/.../rp-prod125671
$240 for a tacx vortex smart trainer. It is an entry level trainer but at that price it was cheap enough for me to be able to justify trying one. I've only had it a week so I can't really say if it is worth it over my cheapo fluid trainer yet but I do like it.

UmneyDurak

Thanks for feedback. Umm right now mostly I just think to help with intervals to keep concentration up so I can maintain power.. Highly doubt I'll be doing zwift races or group rides.

On side note. Speaking of ergo mode on power trainers. Couple of questions, out of curiosity.
For people who use it regularly, does it affect your ability to maintain power on the road? Like you get used to trainer keeping power up, and find it harder to push it by yourself on the road?
I was poking around zwift website and seems like even with smart trainer you can feed power numbers from your PM instead of smart trainer. Does it mean there won't be feedback from zwift?

OBoile

The races and group rides are actually a really good way to pass the time too. You don't have to be competitive... it's as serious as you want to make it. But it can definitely make an hour go by quickly.

redlude97

If you want to just do intervals, I'd look into trainerroad or sufferfest for erg based interval training. You can use your powermeter as the readout in zwift, and it will control the trainer to try to adjust the power to match, thats what I do to keep my numbers consistent on the trainer/road. I actually find it easier to pace and control efforts on the road after using erg mode, you start to get a pretty good feel for how it should feel at different power levels without having to constantly be focusing on controlling your effort, but I only use erg mode like once or twice a week and do group rides and races the rest of the time so I'm still simulating real world efforts on a regular basis.
Exactly, could never ride the dumb trainer for more than an hour before zwift, now I regularly ride between 1-2 hours and up to 2.5 hours without wanting to kill myself. Could never do that just staring at a wall or trying to watch netflix on the bike

kreative

"To make trainer rides easier & more fun".

I definitely think Zwift is worth it as it's done what you're asking about for me. I started on a "dumb" trainer and it was fun. The smart trainer is a game changer though. It totally changed the experience and worth the investment for me.

MinnMan

This.

zacster

I did Zwift on a dumb trainer last year with PM, and then bought a smart trainer this year. The smart trainer is what makes it realistic. In simulation mode you feel the hills both up and down, the drafts, gear changes and even the slight change in intensity, and it all reacts pretty well on my Kickr Core. In ERG mode you don't feel it those changes but you get the requisite power regardless of how fast you are pedaling or gearing. I use both, sometimes favoring simulation, sometimes ERG. Group rides are generally in ERG mode with some that include all-out sprints where ERG mode lets go. I haven't done any Zwift racing so I don't know, but that should all be in simulation I would think. There is also level mode, which is more like a dumb trainer. My fluid 2 trainer had a power curve but I'm not sure if level mode reacts the same way.

I'm a New Yorker so you'd think my least favorite world would be NY, but I find the Central Park perimeter loop to be my favorite Zwift ride, in simulation of course. Harlem hill feels like Harlem hill, except twice as steep. The sprints must be done in sim mode. There is something satisfying in placing in the top 10% on the sprints, even at age 64. And I always suspect that some of those numbers are impossible, how can someone do it in half the time I just did going all out over such a short distance?

kcblair

Thanks for the tip . Does the unit come with US power cable ? KB

Canker

No, it comes with the UK power cord.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I bought that adapter.

kcblair

Thanks, the female end , that connects to the unit, appears to be similar to a printer /scanner cable (which I have many lying around). GOing to order one, free shipping and 10% off new accounts , is a deal, not to pass up KB.

jadocs

Yeah, Zwift on a dumb trainer even with a PM, Cadence, HR is not even close to being hit with actual gradients. Funny story: I use smart rollers (with PM, HR, Cad), just yesterday I was on Zwift and I was recovering on a decent in a big gear, going fast not paying attention looking at my front wheel with my hands on the tops (not hoods). The next climb approached and I was caught unprepared. The hill hit hard (steeeep), I had to power through at 500+ watts the whole way. I was wrecked afterwards, but I would have never have gone that hard had I been prepared. So you are probably thinking why didn't I just change gears? Well, because smart rollers, I'm fighting to stay upright and keep rolling. I was pulling hard on the tops because that's where my hands were when I was caught and pressing hard on the pedals. It was too steep to ease back and I wasn't going to stop.