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Trek announcing "something that will change cycling forever"

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Trek announcing "something that will change cycling forever"

Old 03-21-19, 11:22 AM
  #401  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
does not compute, does not compute
Minimalist rig that does exactly what I need and nothing more.

Previous workhorse was a touring bike which was OK, but heavy and slow. This is way more fun.
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Old 03-21-19, 11:25 AM
  #402  
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Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
Minimalist rig that does exactly what I need and nothing more.

Previous workhorse was a touring bike which was OK, but heavy and slow. This is way more fun.
I get that you like your bike, but just can't imagine going into a custom shop and speccing a fendered bike for hauling gear, commuting and bad weather, but specifying that you don't want it to be able to take wider than 23mm tires.
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Old 03-21-19, 11:46 AM
  #403  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
I get that you like your bike, but just can't imagine going into a custom shop and speccing a fendered bike for hauling gear, commuting and bad weather, but specifying that you don't want it to be able to take wider than 23mm tires.
The bike is for me and no one else -- I wanted a practical commuter I could take in anything with the soul of a race bike. Most commuting bikes are way overbuilt by my perspective.

When I started my long commute with a touring bike, I started with 28's, then dropped to 25's, and then to 23's. Just a teeny bit lighter for tires/fenders and I like tight lines. I know I'll never mount bigger tires, so I don't even want the option. I'm not sure I've carried 5 lbs and know I'll never even bust 10, so I don't even want the capacity. I do ride in a lot of slop (I chew up a set of rims pretty much every year), so I wanted real fenders -- though I wanted them tight. This thing is also built for my 140lb weight, the steer tube is cut, and it's not going to be something anyone other than me likes. But my experience is that if you really know what you need, you don't need anything else.

If I were having it built today, I'd probably go disc brakes, IGH, and belt drive since I also go through lots of tranny components as well as rims, but the tech wasn't quite where I wanted at the time this was built. Even after all this time, I love every ride on this thing.
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Old 03-21-19, 11:46 AM
  #404  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
I get that you like your bike, but just can't imagine going into a custom shop and speccing a fendered bike for hauling gear, commuting and bad weather, but specifying that you don't want it to be able to take wider than 23mm tires.
One can haul gear with 23mm tires, although I've moved to favoring 25mm tires.

One can add fenders to a bike with narrow tires, although I've been running fenderless.
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Old 03-21-19, 12:50 PM
  #405  
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As far as the helmets and the ad campaign, I'll probably check them out once they start popping up in stores. So, in that way, it was effective in getting the information out. I'm more likely to buy a helmet than the latest decoupled carbon wonderbike.

REI appears to carry three of the more interesting WaveCel helmets, at least online.

https://www.rei.com/b/bontrager/c/bike-helmets

Although I'll probably try to check them out in person rather than going solely by internet specs.

Unfortunately Trek has made an interesting choice of designs, features, and pricing.

Bontrager Charge WaveCel Helmet This is marketed as their commuter helmet. But, while warmth and rain may be an issue for some commuters in the winter, heat and sweat is a major problem for summer commuters. I could be surprised, but it looks like it would be about a 4 month helmet. The rear taillight option is good... I think. As long at the light is easy to use and not easily lost.

Bontrager Blaze WaveCel Helmet This one comes with a front accessory mount, but lacks the rear accessory mount. It also has a small, apparently moveable visor. I've had issues with visors in the past that obstruct my vision, so they all have been taken off. It depends how Trek deals with those issues. It appears as if that visor is moveable. Does it lock in place? Would a visor help with rain? Sun?

$150 0n the other helmets was a bit hard to swallow, but $300? Really?

Bontrager Specter WaveCel Helmet This is the one I'd probably end up with. It appears to have the ventilation that I need. Unfortunately it lacks both the front & rear accessory mounts. As was commented earlier, the liner style may make home accessory mounts problematic.

Colors? They do appear to have some reds, yellows, and orange colors for visibility, although reds and oranges are less visible at night.

They do mention reflective elements on some of the helmets, but not al of them, and only on the back, not the front or sides. Wrap-Around?

I just find it odd that none of the helmets seem to have all the features that a hardcore commuter might want.

And, one gets stuck with an odd mixed selection of features on some helmets, but not others.

Thus, it is likely that I'll pass on this for now.

Perhaps they'll hit a "home-run" with their second generation WaveCel helmets.
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Old 03-21-19, 12:52 PM
  #406  
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This entire announcement is snooze-worthy. Sorry.
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Old 03-21-19, 12:54 PM
  #407  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
While the helmets have been out in demo models and in testing for some time, Trek only made the formal announcement this week.

I'd imagine that Smith is working to get several of the helmets, and is evaluating their options.

Also, does this fall under the MIPS patent?
OK, I found out that the Smith and the Bontrager are not the same thing, not even close, so there is no pat infring. https://www.bikemag.com/gear/apparel...et-technology/ It appears that the Wavecel is indeed a very important advancement in the way helmets will protect one's head, and they have the crash data to support the tech with the highest ratings ever received by a helmet to date.
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Old 03-21-19, 01:09 PM
  #408  
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Originally Posted by motosonic View Post
This entire announcement is snooze-worthy. Sorry.
Correct.

Why are we even still talking about it? It may be time to get this thread locked or let it fall off page 1.

Oops now it's at the top again!!

Sad.
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Old 03-21-19, 01:12 PM
  #409  
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Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
One the other hand, visibility when I'm on my trike is a serious problem -- especially large vehicles next to me often can't see me so I need to be ready at all times for vehicles to move in on me and make sure I don't get pinned against something.
The whole and sole reason i don't own a tadpole trike. I want one, but I know the people in cars will hit me even if they can see ... and with that thing, i would be below the hood/fender line. Some SUVs could probably ride right over me without impediment.
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Old 03-21-19, 01:18 PM
  #410  
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Because of health, work, and weather, I haven't gotten to ride since the 19th. I hope to get out this evening, to find out exactly how "cycling is changed forever."
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Old 03-21-19, 01:31 PM
  #411  
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Originally Posted by greatscott View Post
OK, I found out that the Smith and the Bontrager are not the same thing, not even close, so there is no pat infring. https://www.bikemag.com/gear/apparel...et-technology/ It appears that the Wavecel is indeed a very important advancement in the way helmets will protect one's head, and they have the crash data to support the tech with the highest ratings ever received by a helmet to date.
Science and technology is an evolution of concepts.
  1. First we had the hard shell over EPS foam of the early Bell helmets from the early 80's.
  2. Then the net over foam from the later 80's.
  3. Followed by the thin plastic over foam of the 90's.
  4. Mips from around 2010
  5. Smith Honeycomb Koroyd
  6. Now Bontrager WaveCel
While each generation may be different from the previous one, it is unlikely that they are generated independently, and each successive generation would not exist without the previous generation.

It depends on how narrowly or broadly the patents are interpreted.
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Old 03-21-19, 01:38 PM
  #412  
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Originally Posted by kromozome View Post
So my Trek dealer texts me at 9 o'clock tonight to say that I may wish to cancel / hold my Project One Madone SLR order because of Trek's announcement that "A change like this comes along once every 30 years" and this will "change cycling forever". He's heard nothing from Trek but says this is not unusual for big announcements.

Bold Trek Announcement

Well, that's interesting. What do you think? Would you hold off on your order too? I think I will given it'll only be a 3 week delay. Any speculation of what this "something" could be? I'm kind of thinking a new graphene frame (I know this is not a new technology, but it hasn't been produced by a big manufacturer yet).
What a letdown lol.
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Old 03-21-19, 02:10 PM
  #413  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Thank you @CliffordK. The GoPro mount is interesting.

Is it safe to say that the WaveTech material precludes the use of any strap on accessory?

I don't believe it couldn't be used with a Light & Motion Vis Pro, for example, which attaches with velcro straps in the rear and rubber straps in the front.

The L&M Vis 360 is similar.



Inability to use with strap on accessories is the only reason why I don't own a Smith Overtake which is the same concept as the Trek released by Smith over three years ago.


-Tim-
Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
I'll stay with notTrek brand helmets. Thanks for the info though.

-Tim-
I just looked at the helmet and the wave matetima is not attached to the foam in the top of the helmet. A strap for a light or GoPro can easily be attached.
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Old 03-30-19, 06:00 PM
  #414  
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I just bought one.

$300 - 25% off for surrendering an old helmet. I gave them a broken one my daughter had 15 years ago. They seemed ok with that.

I decided my 20 year old mountain bike helmet could be upgraded. I'm leaving for Utah tomorrow, and my technical skills kind of suck, so it isn't beyond the realm of possibilities that I put this to the test, but I sure hope not.

The helmet actually seems much better in person. I think they did themselves a disservice with all the hype.

Last edited by wgscott; 03-30-19 at 07:08 PM. Reason: Added link to the helmet
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Old 03-31-19, 05:02 AM
  #415  
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Me too as to just buying one. Have not ridded with it yet as I'm still on concussion protocol from a recent bike accident. Very well fitting and comfortable. While I might agree Trek over hyped it, I disagree it's a yawner. Another poster pointed out it has been solidly researched and shown to be an improvement. As someone who is now suffering with post concussion syndrome , this is no yawner or joke. And as they say you only have one brain. Please do everything to protect it.
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Old 04-15-19, 09:27 AM
  #416  
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Not to dredge up this thread again, but I did notice the Bontrager Specter Wavecel has been discounted on Trek's website to $119 from $150, and the Bontrager XXX Wavecel is now $239 down from $300.

Is this a sign that the new helmets are not selling as well as they had hoped, and they have a warehouse full of these things?

I am really tempted to pick up a Specter actually. Highest rated helmet on the Virginia Tech independent testing results, and $119 is a reasonable price for a high-end helmet. I am sure my old non-MIPS Giro Foray (which is not tested) would score a lot lower, and the pads have worn out on it anyway.

Anybody tried the XXX Wavecel yet? How is the ventilation on it?
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Old 04-15-19, 09:54 AM
  #417  
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I was reading about the discounts... it sounds like there is an across the board spring discount that Trek is running, not just on the helmets. Odd timing, however, to coincide with the release of the greatest change in cycling in 30 years!!!

Reviews on the helmet still seem mixed.
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Old 04-15-19, 10:14 AM
  #418  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I was reading about the discounts... it sounds like there is an across the board spring discount that Trek is running, not just on the helmets. Odd timing, however, to coincide with the release of the greatest change in cycling in 30 years!!!

Reviews on the helmet still seem mixed.
Ah, good to know.

As far as reviews: I can hardly find any reviews. And the ones I have found are pretty positive, and somewhat inconclusive. Helmet reviews are kind of useless I guess, because the comfort and fit are personal, and you cannot comment on the safety without crashing... so yeah.

The only objective information so far is: It is heavier than the average helmet, and the XXX is really expensive. But the independent VT testing shows they are also the safest helmets on the market...

On ventilation, the only reviews on the XXX I can really find are like: "the weather isn't hot yet, so cannot comment on the ventilation" or "the XXX is hot, but this is my first ever aero helmet, so cannot compare". I mean, any aero helmet will be hotter than a lightweight fully vented helmet, so all these reviews are useless to me.
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Old 04-15-19, 10:51 AM
  #419  
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Many of us wouldn't put a Bontrager product on our head if it gave us the ability to fly.

I'll wait for Giro to come out with their version. Let the competition begin.


-Tim-
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Old 04-15-19, 12:10 PM
  #420  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Many of us wouldn't put a Bontrager product on our head if it gave us the ability to fly.

I'll wait for Giro to come out with their version. Let the competition begin.


-Tim-
Thinking the same thing, like everything Trek it is way overpriced for what it is.

Several months ago I was looking for some bottle cages and went to a local Trek store. Nothing but Bontrager accessories that are variants (color/material) of the same thing...so much for options. I wonder how they stay in business.

I was underwhelmed when I saw the new helmet in person.

Last edited by jadocs; 04-15-19 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 04-15-19, 12:52 PM
  #421  
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
Thinking the same thing, like everything Trek it is way overpriced for what it is.

Several months ago I was looking for some bottle cages and went to a local Trek store. Nothing but Bontrager accessories that are variants (color/material) of the same thing...so much for options. I wonder how they stay in business.

I was underwhelmed when I saw the new helmet in person.
Overpriced? The Spectre and XXX wavecel pricing is in line with Giro Synthe and Aether, Smith Trace, and other high end road bike helmets. Not any more or less overpriced than any other brand? They all happily charge $250+ for what is essentially a foam and plastic hat with some paint on it.

I fail to see why Bontrager products would be any better or worse than others. Brand fanboyism is stupid, whether cars, computers, bicycles. I buy whatever brand happens to have the best product for the best price that fits me the best at time of purchase.
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Old 04-15-19, 01:45 PM
  #422  
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Originally Posted by maartendc View Post
Overpriced? The Spectre and XXX wavecel pricing is in line with Giro Synthe and Aether, Smith Trace, and other high end road bike helmets. Not any more or less overpriced than any other brand? They all happily charge $250+ for what is essentially a foam and plastic hat with some paint on it.

I fail to see why Bontrager products would be any better or worse than others. Brand fanboyism is stupid, whether cars, computers, bicycles. I buy whatever brand happens to have the best product for the best price that fits me the best at time of purchase.
Trek's idea of a "sale" is $400 off a 12k bike and $200 off a $3.5k bike. No thanks...

If I owned a Trek I probably wouldn't think twice about a quality Bontrager accessory, but I'm certainly not going to put run of the mill Bontrager accessories (what you find in most Trek stores) on my Fondriest. Just like I wouldn't run into Walmart and buy Bell accessories. Maybe that does make me a fanboy.
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Old 04-15-19, 01:58 PM
  #423  
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
Trek's idea of a "sale" is $400 off a 12k bike and $200 off a $3.5k bike. No thanks...

If I owned a Trek I probably wouldn't think twice about a quality Bontrager accessory, but I'm certainly not going to put run of the mill Bontrager accessories (what you find in most Trek stores) on my Fondriest. Just like I wouldn't run into Walmart and buy Bell accessories. Maybe that does make me a fanboy.
... Okay. I'm talking about their helmets here, not about the pricing on Trek bikes.

Also: yes that kind of makes you a fanboy, or I guess a snob? Do you only buy bottlecages that are handmade by a master artisan in a cabin in the Italian Alps or something? As far as I can tell, Bontrager products (helmets, bottle cages, gloves, bar tape, wheels you name it) are just as good / bad as anything from Giro, Elite, Cinelli, Reynolds or whatever. And the pricing is about the same as well, most brand name cycling products are best bought on sale... Probably all made in the same factory in Taiwan as well. Do people love to hate Trek / Bontrager because they are one of the biggest brands?

The only Bontrager product I currently own is my summer riding gloves, and they have been very good quality so far (4 seasons in, cannot fault them). I would happily get a helmet from them. But brand loyalty / bashing is just not for me, I own a Cannondale, a BMC, a Trek and a host of European brand city and mountain bikes (Norta, Minerva, etc.).

More importantly: The one and only respectable, independent testing that I have seen on bike helmets, the Virginia Tech one, is rating their Specter, Ballista and XXX helmets currently as being the top 3 safest among all brands (according to their testing methodology). From where I'm sitting, that makes their helmets top-tier, and the other brands have some explaining / catching up to do on why I'm paying them $200+ for a helmet that is less safe! (and I currently own a Giro helmet, which I like. I WISH it was as safe as the Bontrager ones)

Last edited by maartendc; 04-15-19 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 04-15-19, 02:10 PM
  #424  
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Originally Posted by maartendc View Post
Anybody tried the XXX Wavecel yet? How is the ventilation on it?
I bought the mountain bike version. Ventilation is definitely one of its strong points.
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Old 04-15-19, 02:11 PM
  #425  
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Arse Technica has an article on it.
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