Aero vs Lightweight Again
 

Hello,

First time back in a couple of years. I am getting back to cycling after a couple of years off the bike. I am struggling with the various trends and data out there with aero vs lightweight. I have two bikes that I am looking at and was wondering if I could have some feedback on them by some fellow riders.

2019 TCR Advanced
2018 Cervelo S3 Disc Ultegra

The Giant seems to win in terms of price and total package, but here are a list of what I would like feedback on:

1- Comfort => Is the aero that much more uncomfortable?
2- Speed => Does the aero give me that much more advantage over lightweight with deep wheels 42mm?
3- Quality of wheels => aluminum vs carbon
4- Overall ride

My riding:
1- Flat to undulating roads
2- Punchy short climbs
3- Ride distance 30-50km week-end 75-125km week-ends

Thanks for any advice and feedback
Nassa

1- Comfort => Is the aero that much more uncomfortable?:
The Cervelo is probably a good deal stiffer in the seatpost area, due to the seatpost being a lot wider. I think you will notice the difference over longer distances if you ride rough / bumpy roads. If roads are smooth, not a big difference probably.

2- Speed => Does the aero give me that much more advantage over lightweight with deep wheels 42mm?:
Probably not. Fit on the bike makes the biggest difference, then wheels, then helmet / frame. But if you do ride a lot of flat terrain at speeds OVER 35 kph, the difference could add up. If it is really rolling terrain and lots of short climbs, or if you ride slower on average, I'd rather have a lighter bike personally.

3- Quality of wheels => aluminum vs carbon:
Those Mavic wheels on the Cervelo are very heavy, at 1850g. I'd wager the Giant's wheels are only 1580g and much more "valuable" (more expensive if you'd buy separately). Overall, the Giant out of the box should be about 500g lighter, which is not insignificant, but unless you do a lot of sustained climbing won't be that noticeable.

I did some research, the Giant TCR with Ultegra mechanical should be around 7.6 kg, which is just OK for a "climbing bike". Some lightweight climbing wheels (1350g), lighter saddle, handlebars and tires can probably get this bike closer to 7kg.
The Cervelo S3 with Ultegra mechanical should be about 8.1kg, which is also just OK for an aero bike. Not bad, but not extraordinary. Getting lighter wheels can get this bike to 7.7 kg or so, but it will be a costly upgrade if you want lightweight, deep section wheels.
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/review...ervelo-s3-disc (lists weight with Red Etap, I deduced from there, Ultegra should be about 350g heavier)
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/group-...t-bikes-346737 (lists weight with Ultegra Di2, Ultegra mechanical should be about 100g lighter)

4- Overall ride:
Depends on the fit / what you prefer. I personally would prefer a lighter, nimble bike for rolling terrain and short steep climbs, but everyone has their preferences. All-in-all, for the type of riding you do, there is not a clear winner in my opinion. Both are solid bikes.

I can't speak to either of these bikes, but I have an aero bike that is 16.5lbs and have no problems with climbing or long rides. If the geometry works for you and the fit is good, you should be fine.

I say go with the one that you think looks the best, performance differences for the average rider are most likely going to be negligible. If you like the way it looks, you'll want to ride it more. :thumb:

I'd go for less weight over more aero. But if the differences between two bikes that otherwise suit you in comfort and any other respect are just a pound or a little more, then go for the aero.

When you get to the small differences of performance when there is less than a pound between the two to compare, then IMO, you have to already be in pretty excellent riding shape to realize the differences and see them in your performance.

Aero trumps weight for going fast, except when you're riding up a reasonably steep hill. But the difference is small.

Personally I love the rest Cervelos ride.

Giant TCR's are widely considered among our all time favorite bikes among all the riders I have been riding with over the years.

Bikes and geometries are personal. Bikes either seem to work for you or not. The aero of one over the other is pretty insignificant IMHO. If you're not comfortable on it or enjoy riding it then all the aero in the world won't help. Besides Giant has a wind-tunnel for testing and I am sure they can list as much biased data as Cervelo can.

The only time I would ever favor aero in a bike selection is when discussing a new TT bike and only if I was racing on it (which I mean why would you own a TT bike unless you were racing on it).

Thank you fo all your comments.
My lbs is only getting the Giant in April and the Cervelo is last one in my size.
Still undecided.

For this amount of money, I would not let myself be pressured into getting the "last one in my size". There are MANY good bikes in the $4000+ range. Test ride a couple of them, see which you like, see which one fits you. Which one do you like the look of, etc.

If I was spending THAT kind of money on a bike, I would have to absolutely be in LOVE with it!!

I agree, but at the same time, most lbs don't allow you to test ride unless it is on a trainer for a couple of minutes.

Which other bikes would you suggest?

Im not too familiar with US pricing, but no DI2 at this price`point? How about a scott foil 10 at five grand?

The place I bought my first Cervelo from was happy to send people out on long test rides. They'd let you do a century on any bike on their floor if you could arrange to do it on a weekday (because other people want to do test rides on weekends). They're very expensive bikes and the shop knows people won't buy them unless they're certain.

They'll have more in your size; if that one sells and you want an S3 they'll be able to get you one. I agree, don't let that pressure you.

Hmm, I have not bought many bikes new from a store (I mostly buy used bikes), but from what I've heard, most shops let you test ride extensively from bikes that are in stock.

Especially expensive bikes, people tend to test ride. I would insist on it, or take my money elsewhere honestly.

See if you can test ride them both, especially for the kind of money you're talking about. Weight or speed won't matter if you don't find the bike a comfortable fit and ride. My nice bike is an aero bike, and weighs about 7.5kg. I find it a very comfortable ride and have done many century+ rides on it, with the longest to date being 150 miles. I'll be doing a double century on it in June as long as the weather isn't too foul (if its going to be heavy rain, I'll want the bike with hydraulic discs for at least one of the descents).

This is more about which is the better bike, not aero vs lightweight. The TCR in my mind is clearly better of the two.

For similar money you can get a Cannondale SuperSix Evo disc Di2 or a DuraAce/Spidering equipped rim brake.
I think it's a better bike than most, and a brilliant performer.

Although they are all nice choices, of the two you are looking at, the TCR is a better overall bike imo.

But, for the money, I would take the Cdale in a heartbeat over them both. You get way more, and a better overall bike for similar money.

That sounds insane.
Who would ride a century, then just return the bike and say "naw, didn't like it".
And would would buy a "new" bike with a century on it?
Who would sell a bike as new with at least one century on it?

I am pretty sure if I were spending $4K and the shop said, "Take it around the parking lot," I would say "Goodbye." For m, for a bike, that is a lot of cash. if I cannot get customer service when i am ready to buy a $4K bike, what am I facing in the future?

Also ... if the bike got really used hard or scuffed up or they couldn't put it back on the shelf as "New" i'd imagine they would discount it. i t would still sell for a lot of money. And people would sure remember that shop. Word-of-mouth advertising is both the cheapest and the best.

To the OP: For someone who rides for pleasure, not competition, the differences in performance (time over distance) would be negligible, and unless you road Fast all the time the aero wouldn't be a big bonus ... but unless you absolutely assaulted every hill, the lower weight wouldn't be a big bonus.

2 important questions you should ask:
Do you spend more time climbing or more time in the wind?
Which bike fits and suits you best when you test ride it?

A lot of shops have "demo bikes" of their most popular models in the most popular size. So it is not that hard to imagine. That is why you see some bikes being sold as demo bikes at a discount.

I recently saw a GCN video about pro racers in Dubai. They were interviewing pro riders about their bikes and there was a team that chose Giant TCR's over aero bikes because they are fast and comfortable. You can take that with a grain of salt, but I have three friends who rave about how comfortable the TCR frameset is. You should also look at the Canyon bikes.

I'd say go for comfort first. However, if the two are very similar in comfort, go aero. I've got a Madone with the Isospeed & it's as comfortable to me as any bike I've ridden. I think it's faster at higher speeds (25mph or higher) for a given wattage than my other bikes. So if it's just as comfortable I think it's a win.

I mean obviously the teams have only the choice of 1 bike brand, the sponsor. However, they theoretically should have availability of the Giant Propel, their aero frame. So maybe it is indicative that the TCR is a good all-round bike, or maybe that aero frames really don't make THAT much of a difference. I am sure they would be using deep section wheels on the TCR in Dubai.

I have heard nothing but good things about the TCR. But if you want the most comfortable frame, you should probably look at their endurance frame, the Defy.

All relative and personal. I have loved and been comfortable on a TCR since day one and I'm too fat and don't ride enough and would be steered to a defy if I walked in off the street into a shop. Good thing I know what I like and don't like.

Normally I try not to wade into threads like this but since you're open to any advice and feedback -- both are nice bikes but I ride with a bunch of pretty good riders on pretty nice bikes and I'm not mature enough to show up for a ride with the most expensive bike and the cheapest legs.

Sure, I am not saying the TCR is not / cannot be a comfortable bike (and I wouldn't know, never ridden one). I am merely pointing out that the TCR has a more race-oriented geometry than the Defy. Just depends on what you are looking for.

Test ride is key.