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Which carbon rim profile and depth would be better?

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Which carbon rim profile and depth would be better?

Old 03-08-19, 08:07 AM
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Which carbon rim profile and depth would be better?

Hi Guys,

Looking to buy carbon wheels for my new bike. Riding on good roads, in moderately windy conditions. Max wind would be maybe 10-15mph. Planning to run them with Schwalbe Pro One 28mms.

So some questions:
  1. Would 46 be really too deep and difficult to handle? Have read some older threads which make it sound like above 40 is kind of dicey with wind and gusts of wind.
  2. They have a V profile with a wider inner width [21mm], and a U profile with a narrower inner width [17.9mm]. I read on some older threads that the U profiles are better in windy conditions? True?
  3. Am I right in assuming that the wider profile will be easier when the tyre is deflated? That is, will it have a better chance of remaining seated? I have tubeless on a 21 inner width set and they never get de seated, while the tyres I have on a 17mm inner width Velocity rim always get de seated.
  4. Is it easier to mount tyres on wider rims? My narrow rim Velocities drive me to tears when I have to mount a tyre.

    So, which depth, and which profile?

    Oh, and the deeper certainly have the bling factor, which I want, but not at the cost of rideability.

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Old 03-08-19, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by deepakvrao
Hi Guys,

Looking to buy carbon wheels for my new bike. Riding on good roads, in moderately windy conditions. Max wind would be maybe 10-15mph. Planning to run them with Schwalbe Pro One 28mms.

So some questions:
  1. Would 46 be really too deep and difficult to handle? Have read some older threads which make it sound like above 40 is kind of dicey with wind and gusts of wind.
  2. They have a V profile with a wider inner width [21mm], and a U profile with a narrower inner width [17.9mm]. I read on some older threads that the U profiles are better in windy conditions? True?
  3. Am I right in assuming that the wider profile will be easier when the tyre is deflated? That is, will it have a better chance of remaining seated? I have tubeless on a 21 inner width set and they never get de seated, while the tyres I have on a 17mm inner width Velocity rim always get de seated.
  4. Is it easier to mount tyres on wider rims? My narrow rim Velocities drive me to tears when I have to mount a tyre.

    So, which depth, and which profile?

I'd go with the 46mm hoops because they are much wider than the 45mm ones. I nearly purchased those, but then I noticed the 56mm hoops are even wider(and only an ounce heavier.

The newer v shaped hoops behave very differently than the old ones(that come to a point in the center).

here's a link to an independent aero test that includes the 56mm hoops. They did quite well(better than many of the big boys).

https://www.hambini.com/blog/post/bi...one-is-fastest
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Old 03-08-19, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
I'd go with the 46mm hoops because they are much wider than the 45mm ones. I nearly purchased those, but then I noticed the 56mm hoops are even wider(and only an ounce heavier.

The newer v shaped hoops behave very differently than the old ones(that come to a point in the center).

here's a link to an independent aero test that includes the 56mm hoops. They did quite well(better than many of the big boys).

https://www.hambini.com/blog/post/bi...one-is-fastest


Thanks for the link- I hadn't seen that.

More super-useful info. from Hambini!
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Old 03-08-19, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by woodcraft
More super-useful info. from Hambini!
the WW thread on this test is a fun read too.
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Old 03-08-19, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
I'd go with the 46mm hoops because they are much wider than the 45mm ones. I nearly purchased those, but then I noticed the 56mm hoops are even wider(and only an ounce heavier.

The newer v shaped hoops behave very differently than the old ones(that come to a point in the center).

here's a link to an independent aero test that includes the 56mm hoops. They did quite well(better than many of the big boys).

https://www.hambini.com/blog/post/bi...one-is-fastest
Fwiw the majority of Slowtwitch forums deem that dude pretty questionable. Research him a bit and weird stuff comes up.
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Old 03-08-19, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep


Fwiw the majority of Slowtwitch forums deem that dude pretty questionable. Research him a bit and weird stuff comes up.
I agree hes pretty questionable, but I feel the same way about many of the people on the Slowtwitch forum.
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Old 03-08-19, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep


Fwiw the majority of Slowtwitch forums deem that dude pretty questionable. Research him a bit and weird stuff comes up.


I've see nothing questionable or weird. Maybe some whining from wheel mfgs that he has dissed (Flo, Zipp).

Link?
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Old 03-08-19, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by deepakvrao
Hi Guys,

Looking to buy carbon wheels for my new bike. Riding on good roads, in moderately windy conditions. Max wind would be maybe 10-15mph. Planning to run them with Schwalbe Pro One 28mms.

So some questions:
  1. Would 46 be really too deep and difficult to handle? Have read some older threads which make it sound like above 40 is kind of dicey with wind and gusts of wind.
  2. They have a V profile with a wider inner width [21mm], and a U profile with a narrower inner width [17.9mm]. I read on some older threads that the U profiles are better in windy conditions? True?
  3. Am I right in assuming that the wider profile will be easier when the tyre is deflated? That is, will it have a better chance of remaining seated? I have tubeless on a 21 inner width set and they never get de seated, while the tyres I have on a 17mm inner width Velocity rim always get de seated.
  4. Is it easier to mount tyres on wider rims? My narrow rim Velocities drive me to tears when I have to mount a tyre.

    So, which depth, and which profile?

    Oh, and the deeper certainly have the bling factor, which I want, but not at the cost of rideability.



1) What is "too deep to handle" depends on your local riding conditions and your bike handling skill.

2) Profiles are a very tricky thing to compare (again dependent on conditions)...and we go back and forth like fashion it seems.

3&4) Inner-width has little to do with mounting/unmounting tires. It is about tire shape/profile. Whether a rim holds onto a tire or not deflated depends on the hook-profile and the tire.

Unless you're in surface cross-winds like you get in Vendee/Normandy or Zeeland or the Great Plains USA...odds are 46mm isn't too hard to handle.
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Old 03-08-19, 01:43 PM
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I thought him legit at first also, then did my own reading. I came out not so sure.

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/S...t_P6710888-19/
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Old 03-08-19, 08:34 PM
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Thanks guys for all the help. Going with the 46mm hooked rims.
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Old 03-09-19, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
3&4) Inner-width has little to do with mounting/unmounting tires. It is about tire shape/profile. Whether a rim holds onto a tire or not deflated depends on the hook-profile and the tire.
.
I wonder though.. if you think about it, for a given tire size (eg. 28mm), doesn't a wider rim imply that the tire's 2nd bead that you're trying to get into the rim, has to stretch further to get mounted? If the first bead is sitting in the center/deepest section of the rim, with a wider rim, the rim's opposite edge is further from that center and tire has to be stretched further to get over, no?
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Old 03-09-19, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by deepakvrao
Thanks guys for all the help. Going with the 46mm hooked rims.
Enjoy!!
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Old 03-09-19, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
I wonder though.. if you think about it, for a given tire size (eg. 28mm), doesn't a wider rim imply that the tire's 2nd bead that you're trying to get into the rim, has to stretch further to get mounted? If the first bead is sitting in the center/deepest section of the rim, with a wider rim, the rim's opposite edge is further from that center and tire has to be stretched further to get over, no?
I suppose a narrower rim could make it more impossible to get a tube inside a tubeless tire.

My experience has been that the tire bead does more for holding onto the rim than the rim-width does. A tire like a Panaracer GravelKing SK 43mm will basically let go of the bead hooks once you deflate it and so much as touch it--whereas a "TNT" Vittoria Terreno Dry will need force applied to the beads to get it to let go of the rim.
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Old 03-09-19, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep
I thought him legit at first also, then did my own reading. I came out not so sure.

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/S...t_P6710888-19/

Wow. A tempest in a (wind) tunnel.

I still have found his youtube videos- especially modeling aerodynamics- to be very helpful.



AFAK rim depth, I've found 56mm Easton EC90s fastest, but a bit of a chore in cross winds (sadly retired now),

followed by 50mm Yoleos w/ semi- modern profile,

followed by 35mm Dura ace, which have larger tires for bad road/weather conditions. (above all carbon tubular)

followed by 24mm Roval alloy clinchers,

followed by various Mavik & other boxish tubulars & clinchers.
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