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Buy/Build New Bike??

Old 03-09-19, 02:26 PM
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TnTA2
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Buy/Build New Bike??

I'm in the market for a new road bike or at least a new frameset and wheelset. Currently ride a 12-13 year old Masi Vincere aluminum frame with 10-sp Campy Centaur and Fulcrum 5 wheels. It never really fir me well, rides harsh and is uncomfortable on rides >40 miles. I'm looking at the following options:


1) A new-old-stock Bianchi Infinito CV Rim Brake Frameset ($2600) and a set of Campy Shamal Ultra clinchers ($986) and swapping over my Centaur parts.The eventual plan here would be to upgrade to Chorus 11-speed in the future


2) LBS Parlee Ultum Disc w/ Ultegra, DT Swiss (not sure model) wheels for $4800.


The Parlee was about 1.5lbs lighter than the Bianchi Oltre they had on the floor. I saw it weighed. And it definitely feels lighter, too.


The LBS guy is trying hard to steer me away from Campy and toward Shimano, probably due to industry direction and profits. He's also saying there won't be much in the way of rim brake bikes in about a year. I don't have a use for disc brakes as they aren't really better in dry conditions and areas where there aren't long descents. Discs require more maintenance, are heavier than rim brakes and can be noisy until adjusted. I LOVE my Campy stuff and there's nothing wrong with it other than sowing a little cosmetic wear from years of use. It's been bombproof for 10 years. That said, I know the Shimano stuff is far better than it was in the past.


Anyone have any input on either of these setups? Is Shimano, specifically Ultegra, really that much "better" than Campy? I told by the shop that has the Infinito that I want it and I plan to order the frames wet and Shamal's on Monday. It's what I really think I want, and have listed after for a few years now. Matte Black and Celeste is a sweet-looking bike, too.
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Old 03-09-19, 04:16 PM
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Are you sure these 2 choices are going to fit you well and not ride harsh ?. Same question another way is are you basing theses frames on the Masi experience ?

I’d be test riding a whole lot of bikes, not building up from a frame.

And personally I would sure not be paying out $2600 for an immensely overpriced Bianchi frame. You can get a complete carbon bike for near that, likely Ultegra with maybe disc brakes. And that’s a bit more future proof.
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Old 03-09-19, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TnTA2
He's also saying there won't be much in the way of rim brake bikes in about a year.
It's true that rim brakes are vanishing from quality OEM builds, but I wouldn't use that to inform what you should buy now. Selection for rim-braking-related parts will thin out over time, but not disappear any time soon.

That said, I know the Shimano stuff is far better than it was in the past.
What's that supposed to mean? Shimano has been creating top-notch stuff for a very long time. Even pre-1984 they did fantastic work, they were just in SunTour's shadow.

Is Shimano, specifically Ultegra, really that much "better" than Campy?
No, both companies make stuff that works.
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Old 03-09-19, 05:53 PM
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One option is to find a good frame (even used), and unbuild the old bike, and build up the new frame with all the old components.

As far as "harsh riding", I would encourage you to evaluate your needs before throwing thousands of bucks into a new bike.

Fatter tires (at lower pressures) give a cushier ride.

Some of the brands have made attempts to add a little flex into the frame for a bit cushier of a ride. For example the Specialized Roubaix.

Get the right saddle?

I also like the flat top (aero) handlebars.

Will your bike shop give you a bike that you can take out on a 100 mile ride?
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Old 03-09-19, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve B.
And personally I would sure not be paying out $2600 for an immensely overpriced Bianchi frame. You can get a complete carbon bike for near that, likely Ultegra with maybe disc brakes. And that’s a bit more future proof.
Any bikes in particular you know of under $3,000 that have at least Ultegra or Centaur/Chorus and decent wheel set?

I've also looked online at the Bianchi Intenso (rim and disc) in 105 and Ultegra. I'm not opposed to going to Shimano, but still think I'd prefer Campy for several factors like familiarity, feel, lever operation, etc. I might have cooled off a bit on being sold on the 2017 Infinito. I'm just not sure how wise it would be to buy a bike I've never ridden. I wanted to test ride the Parlee and the Oltre today at the shop, but it was pouring rain.

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Old 03-09-19, 07:56 PM
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A lot will depend on your finances, desires, and needs. I'm not convinced the most expensive wheelset is always the "best", but again it depends on what you're doing. Racing? Touring? Commuting? Group Rides? Etc.

I'm not convinced that rim brakes are going away any time soon, although perhaps we'll see more rim brakes with aluminum rims, and disc brakes with carbon rims.

As you're looking for a high end bike, also consider if you want to use electronic shifting (Di2/EPS). 11-speed? 12-speed?

Hydraulics?

You didn't list the location. I think you can buy Parlee direct from the factory in Beverly, Massachusetts.

Look at the Specialized Roubaix. I think Trek has a couple of similar models designed to reduce shock.
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Old 03-09-19, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TnTA2
Any bikes in particular you know of under $3,000 that have at least Ultegra or Centaur/Chorus and decent wheel set?

I've also looked online at the Bianchi Intenso (rim and disc) in 105 and Ultegra. I'm not opposed to going to Shimano, but still think I'd prefer Campy for several factors like familiarity, feel, lever operation, etc. I might have cooled off a bit on being sold on the 2017 Infinito. I'm just not sure how wise it would be to buy a bit I've never ridden. I wanted to test ride the Parlee and the Oltre today at the shop, but it was pouring rain.
Pretty close

https://www.brandscycle.com/product/...p-306074-1.html

This is at my LBS, but I think it’s the standard Specialized price that any Specialized dealer will have. I’d bet with some searching you’d find other stuff as well. This particular shop runs a sale in late March/April and it’s usually 10% off.

And note that with the Bianchi you listed, plus wheels, you’d still be at 10 speed moving gear over, then need to lay out cash for 11. It’s ALWAYS cheaper to buy the complete bike as opposed to building, unless you get a really, really great deal on the frame or buy Chinese.

The real question is fit as you state the Masi doesn’t. Are you sure what you want to move to as a frame ?, are you comfortable mail ordering a frame that you know will fit.

Doing a frame and components does get you exactly what you want, if you are certain of the size. I’ve done 7 road frame buildups so know pretty much what works at this point so am comfortable ordering a frame only. You do get the wheels you want as well as the components. One thing I’m a curmudgeon on is I never want a press fit bottom bracket, so that drives my choices when I’m looking.

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Old 03-09-19, 09:24 PM
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Re: No discs in a couple years---Maybe not on a lot of new production bikes. But there will be calipers, levers, cables, and pads around for a long time to come. Shimano is still making rim brakes on its latest group set releases, and even if they switched to all-disc three years from now when the next-gen Ultegra and 105 a released, they might keep making some stuff just to service legacy customers. If not ... buy stuff now for five years form now and you will be the E-Bay king of rim brakes.
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Old 03-09-19, 09:35 PM
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We also see a lot of trickle down technology in the bike industry.

So, heaven forbid, we stop seeing Dura Ace and Super Record cable actuated rim brakes, we'll undoubtedly see them in the groupsets a few steps below (105/Chorus)??? And, those will borrow most of the technology from the former top of the line groupsets (perhaps minus some titanium).
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Old 03-09-19, 09:52 PM
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Being concerned about the sizing/geometry/fit of a new bike is starting to sink in. I'm not terribly worried about rim breaks going away, but I am a little off-put by the sheer amount of disc-equipped bikes being shoved down our throats. There are some applications where discs have an advantage, but how and where I primarily ride, they provide about zero benefit, especially at the cost and weight penalty they bring. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to a disc bike if everything else was dialed in.

If not for spending over $5k all-in on a Parlee Ultum Disc, I might be more heavily considering it. Being able to have the LBS fit me for frame size, stem length, etc BEFORE ordering is very appealing. I might call and ask for pricing on the rim brake version, depending on what the spec differences (if any) are. Wednesday is supposed to be 70* and dry, so I might take a vacation day from work and go test ride some bikes. That is, if I don't cave and order the Infinito CV sight unseen
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Old 03-10-19, 03:55 AM
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If you are spending $5K for a bike, take your existing bike to a Real fitter and get your "perfect" riding position dialed in----$200--$300 instead of $5k and finding out you should have gotten the next size up or something.
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Old 03-10-19, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by TnTA2
I'm in the market for a new road bike or at least a new frameset and wheelset. Currently ride a 12-13 year old Masi Vincere aluminum frame with 10-sp Campy Centaur and Fulcrum 5 wheels. It never really fir me well, rides harsh and is uncomfortable on rides >40 miles. I'm looking at the following options:


1) A new-old-stock Bianchi Infinito CV Rim Brake Frameset ($2600) and a set of Campy Shamal Ultra clinchers ($986) and swapping over my Centaur parts.The eventual plan here would be to upgrade to Chorus 11-speed in the future


2) LBS Parlee Ultum Disc w/ Ultegra, DT Swiss (not sure model) wheels for $4800.


The Parlee was about 1.5lbs lighter than the Bianchi Oltre they had on the floor. I saw it weighed. And it definitely feels lighter, too.


The LBS guy is trying hard to steer me away from Campy and toward Shimano, probably due to industry direction and profits. He's also saying there won't be much in the way of rim brake bikes in about a year. I don't have a use for disc brakes as they aren't really better in dry conditions and areas where there aren't long descents. Discs require more maintenance, are heavier than rim brakes and can be noisy until adjusted. I LOVE my Campy stuff and there's nothing wrong with it other than sowing a little cosmetic wear from years of use. It's been bombproof for 10 years. That said, I know the Shimano stuff is far better than it was in the past.


Anyone have any input on either of these setups? Is Shimano, specifically Ultegra, really that much "better" than Campy? I told by the shop that has the Infinito that I want it and I plan to order the frames wet and Shamal's on Monday. It's what I really think I want, and have listed after for a few years now. Matte Black and Celeste is a sweet-looking bike, too.
Why donít you simply buy the same bike you have now used on EBay for like $500 and then place it at the 40 mile marker on your ride so you can switch bikes there and ride another 40 miles in comfort.
Sounds like the perfect solution and would save you a lot of money.
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Old 03-10-19, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by TnTA2
Any bikes in particular you know of under $3,000 that have at least Ultegra or Centaur/Chorus and decent wheel set?

I've also looked online at the Bianchi Intenso (rim and disc) in 105 and Ultegra. I'm not opposed to going to Shimano, but still think I'd prefer Campy for several factors like familiarity, feel, lever operation, etc. I might have cooled off a bit on being sold on the 2017 Infinito. I'm just not sure how wise it would be to buy a bike I've never ridden. I wanted to test ride the Parlee and the Oltre today at the shop, but it was pouring rain.
These are offered in other groupsets as well, as well as a non-disc version. At the bottom of page there's a Build Your Own button to customize a bit as well.
Just another option.

https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribbl...gnolo-potenza/
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Old 03-10-19, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by TnTA2
Being concerned about the sizing/geometry/fit of a new bike is starting to sink in. I'm not terribly worried about rim breaks going away, but I am a little off-put by the sheer amount of disc-equipped bikes being shoved down our throats. There are some applications where discs have an advantage, but how and where I primarily ride, they provide about zero benefit, especially at the cost and weight penalty they bring. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to a disc bike if everything else was dialed in.
I totally agree that discs have very little advantage over rim brakes for the everyday weekend warrior and is why I don't use them.

But I'm certain that I've purchased my last road frame with rim brakes for 2 reasons. 1) Should I ever desire to go the carbon wheel route I'm not doing it on rim brakes. Disc brakes eliminates the issues related to overheating, special pads, mediocre performance in wet conditions, all common to carbon rim brake wheels. Disc make more sense for this use (without getting into the whole Carbon vs. Aluminum debate). 2) The frame manufacturers have some flexibility as to clearance when using disc as opposed to side pull brakes, with disc allowing wider rims and tires. Thus some greater flexibility in wheels and tires. I could see my next carbon having 2 sets of wheels, one being a fast road set, 25-28mm tires, tighter rear gearing, maybe carbon rims, while my 2nd set of wheels would be for dirt/gravel use,32 or 34 big cog, 32-36mm cross tires, aluminum 32 spoke, etc.... so 2 bikes for the price of 1 with a 2nd set of wheels.
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Old 03-10-19, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster
Why donít you simply buy the same bike you have now used on EBay for like $500 and then place it at the 40 mile marker on your ride so you can switch bikes there and ride another 40 miles in comfort.
Sounds like the perfect solution and would save you a lot of money.
Few questions have a perfect answer,. This one does, and this is it.
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Old 03-11-19, 11:26 PM
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Thanks for the insights, all. Some good advice! I think I have decided to at least go test ride a few options in my price range at my LBS this week. I might even pay their fit fee to at least see which size Infinito CV frameset I should choose if I go that route. If I buy something online, they will help measure and make adjustments to dial in the fit.
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Old 03-12-19, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by TnTA2
Thanks for the insights, all. Some good advice! I think I have decided to at least go test ride a few options in my price range at my LBS this week. I might even pay their fit fee to at least see which size Infinito CV frameset I should choose if I go that route. If I buy something online, they will help measure and make adjustments to dial in the fit.
I'd go for the fit to get your current bike to fit right. Yes, it may show that another frame will work better for you, but getting the fit to determine which size of a model you are lusting after is a case of you going in with a predetermined mindset. Not the way to arrive at a perfect fit but a great way to lock yourself into another mediocre fit for the next 20 years. Do a fit based around correcting what you've got. Probably a new stem and some tweaks in position. $150 in parts? Ride the corrected fit a few miles. Then, and only then - look at a bike that does what your current bike cannot. (And keep your old bike as a rainy day and "B" bike.)

Ben
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Old 03-12-19, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
I'd go for the fit to get your current bike to fit right. Yes, it may show that another frame will work better for you, but getting the fit to determine which size of a model you are lusting after is a case of you going in with a predetermined mindset. Not the way to arrive at a perfect fit but a great way to lock yourself into another mediocre fit for the next 20 years. Do a fit based around correcting what you've got. Probably a new stem and some tweaks in position. $150 in parts? Ride the corrected fit a few miles. Then, and only then - look at a bike that does what your current bike cannot. (And keep your old bike as a rainy day and "B" bike.)

Ben
precisely my thinking. Once you know where you need your contact points, you can set up a lot of different frame sizes to fit---and you can also choose which frame size will offer you the fit you need with the minimum of compromise (too many spacers, ridiculously long or short stem, too much or too little seatpost, super-set back seatpost with saddle all the way back or zero setback and saddle all the way forward ... )

Your current set-up might be a little off in every way. In fact, when I hear, "it is fine for 40 miles, and then ... " my first thought is bad fit. Sure, a bike that is too stiff will transmit a lot of shock and vibration, but if it fits right you should be able to know that that is all that is wrong. I'd suspect your hand, elbows, and shoulders (and maybe your triceps muscles) would feel it worst. (I rode a borrowed Cannondale 6-13 (I think) on a tour a few years back--swapped bikes with a buddy for a few days--and for the first hour or so it was great, and by the end of the second hour my neck and shoulders were really starting to hurt. Too much weight forward--he had a longer and stronger torso and could lean further more comfortably. I could have taken the same bike, maybe moved the seat back a couple millimeters, shortened the stem 10-20 cm (or switched to compact bars), and maybe added 5-10 mm spacers and it would have been great.

Once you know how your body wants a bike set up, you can fit yourself to a lot of bikes,. otherwise, as @79pmoone suggests, you might be replicating your fit issues on a new frame.

Seriously, if you are planning to spend $5K on a bike and maybe keep it for ten years, isn't it worth it to spend a couple hundred up front to make sure you start out buying the right size? Then after several months on the new bike, if you still want a fitting for that bike ... again, the cost of the fitting is insignificant beside the cost of the bike. On another hand, maybe you wouldn't eve need the second fitting because you had already learned what your body liked best.
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Old 03-12-19, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by TnTA2
Any bikes in particular you know of under $3,000 that have at least Ultegra or Centaur/Chorus and decent wheel set?
Sure: https://www.cannondale.com/USA/bike/...f-a4abf5261c81
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Old 03-12-19, 04:51 PM
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The Cdale Evo is a really nice ride.
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Old 03-13-19, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
We also see a lot of trickle down technology in the bike industry.

So, heaven forbid, we stop seeing Dura Ace and Super Record cable actuated rim brakes, we'll undoubtedly see them in the groupsets a few steps below (105/Chorus)??? And, those will borrow most of the technology from the former top of the line groupsets (perhaps minus some titanium).

I actually think we will definitely continue to see rim brakes mostly on ultra high-end 10k+ bikes and discs more in the middle tier. Mostly for weight reasons and because rim brakes are far easier to work on at home. I also think riders on the super high-end don't care what the industry is pushing when cost is not an issue.

In this riders case, if price is an issue I would also go the rim brake route for lower overall future costs as well. The odds of something changing with disc technology is certainly higher with discs than rim.
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Old 03-13-19, 01:40 PM
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I'm considering paying for the fit and adjustments. I'll find out if the LBS has something that is a better fit, and if not and I can narrow down my choices, have them assemble and adjust a frameset or bike I buy elsewhere. I think they charge $250 for the fit/geometry check, researching an online purchase and assembling the bike, if needed. Sounds like a pretty good deal. I need to get on it ASAP though, because if a 50cm Infinito CV rim brake Fram will work for me, they may not be available for long.

As far as the Infinito CV vs my current bike, the effective top tube length is exactly the same and the seat post angle is 71.5 vs 72. Top tube is about 25mm higher on the Infinito, but I think standover height will be better due to the slope of the top tube. Essentially, if I can dial in the fit of the current bike, then the CV would in all likelihood prove at least as good, if not better.

Lots to think about here.

Last edited by TnTA2; 03-13-19 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 03-23-19, 11:00 AM
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Well, I went and test rode the Parlee Altum Disc LE and the Bianchi Oltre XR3, both in a size 50cm, both disc brake versions and with Ultegra. The Parlee felt just about perfect to me, and the Oltre felt a little too stretched out, as expected. The Parlee was fast, responsive and smooth. Unfortunately, the Oltre needed a derailleur adjustment and seemed to have a bottom bracket squeak, which kinda soured the experience. I did come away impressed with the Ultegra gruppo, far moreso that I was expecting. It shifted with precision and was very smooth. Brake modulations was very good and I had no issues adapting to the shifter operation or the brake feel. I wish they had a Chorus-equipped bike to compare, but I could ride Shimano and not have any issues as long as it proved as reliable as my old Centaur setup.

I could get a brand new 2019 Infinito CV Disc version from the online retailer I've been chatting with for $3,800 shipped to my door. I just don't have the most faith in what I'm being told by them and if something is wrong, it could be a nightmare to get sorted. I'd pay about $1200 more to buy the Parlee, but would be working with the LBS through the entire process and know I'd get good service and support after the sale. The online retailer tells me there are several Bianchi warehouses in the US and they get updated inventory lists regularly. I called yesterday to ask about pre-built Ultegra Infinito CV and was told they conveniently had just received an updated inventory list an hour prior, at 3:00 on a Friday afternoon. Can anyone confirm the existence of these Bianchi warehouses? My LBS says they can't get the bikes/frames the online seller seems to have access to. Weird.

I still haven't even decided whether I'd even want disc brakes or not. The negatives outweigh the positives, at least in my situation, but it means more options to choose from. I can get a 2018 Infinito CV in Ultegra rim brake for $3084 shipped (supposedly). Part of me still wants to try to get the 2017 Infinito CV frameset, Shamal Ultra wheels and move my Centaur stuff over. Anybody think re-using 8-10 year old Campy components is a bad idea? It's only 10-speed, but I think I'd be fine with that. I have a new Centaur 12-27 cassette to swap over if I keep the current stuff.

I've got the new bike bug but I am still struggling with making any solid decisions.
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Old 03-23-19, 11:41 AM
  #24  
ridelikeaturtle
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Originally Posted by TnTA2
I've got the new bike bug but I am still struggling with making any solid decisions.
Why limit yourself to carbon? Would you consider a titanium bike? The Litespeed T5 looks nice.
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Old 03-23-19, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ridelikeaturtle
Why limit yourself to carbon? Would you consider a titanium bike? The Litespeed T5 looks nice.
I guess I should also consider titanium, but there are no Litespeed dealers near me. But they do offer unconditional 30-day return policy on bikes purchased direct, so seems relatively low-risk. My preferred LBS sells Mosaic, and the RT-2 looks pretty interesting. I didn't really want to add more choices to my decision, and I had considered Ti bikes early, on but really got onto carbon due to me having wanted an Infinito CV for so long and working toward that goal. I still think I'd prefer to do everything through the LBS and not have to deal with the uncertainty on ordering through an online retailer, though.
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