Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Addiction LXXIV

Old 04-05-19, 04:43 AM
  #226  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
I'm 45min SE of RVA. try to keep up.
I was being polite and did not want to say BFE so I said RVA.
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Old 04-05-19, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post

So was the slippable fabric cover on those old things a form of proto-MIPS or did the friction increase the rotatory forces and shred your white matter worse?
I had heard the latter, which is probably why they moved away from the fabric covers pretty quickly. I don't know if the increased risk was ever proven or just hypothetical. Back then they mainly did drop tests which don't really consider rotation forces.
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Old 04-05-19, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by DougRNS View Post
I was being polite and did not want to say BFE so I said RVA.

Show some respect! This is the birthplace of America!


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Old 04-05-19, 05:37 AM
  #229  
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I had several of the Giro beer cooler helmets. Around 1988, the USCF (now USA Cycling) was doing a study on these helets because they were very popular in US racing and it had been proposed that the fabric cover "gripped" the paveent during a crash and amplified certain injuries.

So, I crashed in a criterium and woke up in the hospital with a concussion and loss of recent memory. My Giro helmet had totally disintegrated. Within 24 hours, the helmet had been collected and sent off soewhere for study.

Never saw the results of the study but the helmet did disappear fro production within the year or shortly thereafter.
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Old 04-05-19, 05:48 AM
  #230  
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I mentioned this recently but in 2016 after our tandem crash and subsequent injuries, I had over a hundred scans and tests while in ICU which yielded a laundry list of incidental conditions, one of which was white matter disease too advanced for y age. I had a follow up CT or MRI, don't remember which, and saw a neurologist.

I had three concentrated spots of damage. He asked e if I had ever had a concussion and I told hi that I raced bikes in the 80s and knew that I had had two for sure. IIRC, he said I did not have general white after disease but injury related damage. Anyway, we spent about 15 minutes talking about cycling and I never had to go back.
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Old 04-05-19, 05:56 AM
  #231  
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Fro the March, 1988 newsletter of the Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute:

"We Need Reports of Shell-Less Helmet Performance

Since the performance in the field of shell-less helmets is one of the big question marks of our day, we would appreciate anything you can share with us in the way of war stories or performance reports of actual field crashes. We are also interested in any stories of breaking apart during crashes, or of any damage by solvents or normal handling. Please send them to our new address."

Lots of info at helmets.org
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Old 04-05-19, 09:05 AM
  #232  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Yes, when commuting and running errands, but not when I tour. When I tour I carry a light weight combo lock to deter crimes of opportunity. Gets sporadic use as I am often in places where there are few people.

I believe this is it:
Thanks for that tip. You travel more heavily loaded than I will be, that providing a deterrent in and of itself. I will also be riding a 40 year old bike that, while valuable to me, might not have value on the bike theft market. I will be traveling through the land of my childhood as a stranger to the traffic and bike culture of the area. I look forward to it still, and am living for May 2, the day I set out.
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Old 04-05-19, 09:08 AM
  #233  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
I had a similar one by Bell. The screen kept the bugs out.
Mine was RhodeGear, to this day my favorite bike accessory company. I still use a wing mirror and flickstands from them.
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Old 04-05-19, 09:14 AM
  #234  
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Day four of almost complete inactivity. I hope to extend my convalescence through the weekend. I do plan to begin trial packing today though.
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Old 04-05-19, 10:34 AM
  #235  
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For anyone interested in why we know as much as we do about concussion and no more, this is most of the reason. The results at the time the lab was closed are described briefly on p. IV. Not saying this work should have continued, but these guys discovered what we think is the important mechanism and had the last chance to test prevention and treatment in a large primate TBI model. Helmet design has been complete guesswork ever since.
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Old 04-05-19, 11:18 AM
  #236  
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
For anyone interested in why we know as much as we do about concussion and no more, this is most of the reason. The results at the time the lab was closed are described briefly on p. IV. Not saying this work should have continued, but these guys discovered what we think is the important mechanism and had the last chance to test prevention and treatment in a large primate TBI model. Helmet design has been complete guesswork ever since.
Interesting read. Thanks for posting.
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Old 04-05-19, 11:24 AM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
For anyone interested in why we know as much as we do about concussion and no more, this is most of the reason. The results at the time the lab was closed are described briefly on p. IV. Not saying this work should have continued, but these guys discovered what we think is the important mechanism and had the last chance to test prevention and treatment in a large primate TBI model. Helmet design has been complete guesswork ever since.
Certainly there are mechanical tests which could be done. Think crash test dummies.
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Old 04-05-19, 11:42 AM
  #238  
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Originally Posted by seedsbelize View Post
Thanks for that tip. You travel more heavily loaded than I will be, that providing a deterrent in and of itself.
Believe me I take that into consideration. Many people I see can barely get in and out of their cars, much less ride or even push a fully loaded bike.

My biggest concern is grocery shopping before camp, when I have all my gear attached. It wouldn't be hard to snatch a pannier, jump into a car and dash off. One reason I prefer to make camp and then go shopping with one pannier that I can carry with me into the store. If I am shopping fully loaded in a populated place, I will sometimes ask to bring the bike inside the store. Never been turned down. I did that in Brattleboro, VT last year because there are quite a few junkies in town. If there is a large vestibule, I will roll it in without asking.

In the end, I am not worried in most situations. The only time someone tried to steal something of mine was in WY. I was at a private campground. The tent area was close to a dirt road that led to some residential area. The night before I had camped in an undeveloped area with no access to water, so my pots were dirty. Set up the stove to boil water to clean them. I left the stove sitting in the grass and went to do laundry by the campground office. Two kids drove by and stopped. One got out, jumped the little fence and was headed towards my stove. Fortunately, I was sitting outside the laundry room reading and saw what was going on. I made a bee line for my tent. Kid jumped back over the fence, jumped into the car and it sped off.
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Old 04-05-19, 01:44 PM
  #239  
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Welp, I decided against buying a U lock, because I don't really need one. I also decided to do some waistband reduction on a stretched out pair of tri shorts, instead of buying new, and a few other cuts. So I bought a NOS L&M Rando 500, which can be used as a dyno light, or not. I have an extra dyno wheel, so of course the obvious choice is to build a bike around it, no? The issue I have with dyno lights is that when you stop moving, the light goes out, and if there is a repair to do, you have to carry an extra light. This should solve that problem.
So I spent the morning learning about lights, and dynos, and the differences between lumens and luxes, and rectifier bridges and the like. And beam angles and focus and, and and. I'm a bit paranoid about visibility out on the road, especially in unfamiliar territory, especially where there is lots more traffic and it's generally moving much faster than what I'm used to. How many of us think about the colorblind drivers out there when we pick out a jersey?

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Old 04-05-19, 01:44 PM
  #240  
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Originally Posted by seedsbelize View Post
Certainly there are mechanical tests which could be done. Think crash test dummies.
There is no reliable way to model the response of the contents of the head, especially the brain. We don’t know much about its mechanical properties or how it moves under acceleration forces. Any useful model has to provide information at the level of the individual nerve fiber. They can do this in rodents, but those injury models have very little to do with the kind of thing that might happen to you or me on a bike.

i should have added that the lab was closed permanently in 1991 in the midst of ongoing controversy.

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Old 04-05-19, 03:07 PM
  #241  
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Not wishing to start a helmet debate but I've heard a zillion anecdotes where people claimed that they would have been severely injured or worse if they hadn't had a helmet on. But, and it's a controversial but, how do we know for sure? There are no measurements or recordings to be had after the fact and I'm pretty sure that no one is going to go out and try to repeat their accident without a helmet.

And then there is the helmet itself which increases the size and weight of the head. I know in my construction field, I wasn't required to wear a hard hat until after at least 20 years of work and I was amazed at how any times that I hit my head on bridge beams and such after that. I don't ever remember smacking my head before I started wearing a hard hat. My own anecdote, I know.

Regardless, I wear a helmet religiously. Just always wondered.
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Old 04-05-19, 03:29 PM
  #242  
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr View Post
Not wishing to start a helmet debate but I've heard a zillion anecdotes where people claimed that they would have been severely injured or worse if they hadn't had a helmet on. But, and it's a controversial but, how do we know for sure? There are no measurements or recordings to be had after the fact and I'm pretty sure that no one is going to go out and try to repeat their accident without a helmet.

And then there is the helmet itself which increases the size and weight of the head. I know in my construction field, I wasn't required to wear a hard hat until after at least 20 years of work and I was amazed at how any times that I hit my head on bridge beams and such after that. I don't ever remember smacking my head before I started wearing a hard hat. My own anecdote, I know.

Regardless, I wear a helmet religiously. Just always wondered.
You get pretty used to walking under beams and such with 1/2" to spare. Add an inch of helmet, then reduce your view range even a little bit with those small hardhat brims and you'll ding your head a lot more alright.

I don't think there are a whole lot of crash situations where a crash without helmet involving zero contact or a light grazing would equate to the same crash with a helmet practically tearing your head off

I'm sure they can occur but rarely I'd guess.
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Old 04-05-19, 03:55 PM
  #243  
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr View Post
Not wishing to start a helmet debate but I've heard a zillion anecdotes where people claimed that they would have been severely injured or worse if they hadn't had a helmet on. But, and it's a controversial but, how do we know for sure? There are no measurements or recordings to be had after the fact and I'm pretty sure that no one is going to go out and try to repeat their accident without a helmet.

And then there is the helmet itself which increases the size and weight of the head. I know in my construction field, I wasn't required to wear a hard hat until after at least 20 years of work and I was amazed at how any times that I hit my head on bridge beams and such after that. I don't ever remember smacking my head before I started wearing a hard hat. My own anecdote, I know.

Regardless, I wear a helmet religiously. Just always wondered.
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Old 04-05-19, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr View Post
Not wishing to start a helmet debate but I've heard a zillion anecdotes where people claimed that they would have been severely injured or worse if they hadn't had a helmet on. But, and it's a controversial but, how do we know for sure? There are no measurements or recordings to be had after the fact and I'm pretty sure that no one is going to go out and try to repeat their accident without a helmet.

And then there is the helmet itself which increases the size and weight of the head. I know in my construction field, I wasn't required to wear a hard hat until after at least 20 years of work and I was amazed at how any times that I hit my head on bridge beams and such after that. I don't ever remember smacking my head before I started wearing a hard hat. My own anecdote, I know.

Regardless, I wear a helmet religiously. Just always wondered.
These are the right questions to ask and having been involved in clinical trials on and off for the last three decades, if there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that null results and the occasional devastating side effect are to be expected. Helmets are common sense and I wear one virtually every time I get on a bike, but common sense is violated surprisingly often, when people actually take a rigorous look at things. Finally, it is said that the three most dangerous words in medicine are, “in my experience,” so ignore the anecdotes.
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Old 04-05-19, 04:11 PM
  #245  
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I wear the helmet to protect against sunburn.
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Old 04-05-19, 04:47 PM
  #246  
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post

There is no reliable way to model the response of the contents of the head, especially the brain. We don’t know much about its mechanical properties or how it moves under acceleration forces. Any useful model has to provide information at the level of the individual nerve fiber. They can do this in rodents, but those injury models have very little to do with the kind of thing that might happen to you or me on a bike.

i should have added that the lab was closed permanently in 1991 in the midst of ongoing controversy.
I listen very carefully to the things Machka tells me. She has done an incredible amount of research on the subject, working as she does for the state health department, and being my wife, and seeking out what my medical carers have been able to say..

One of the things she has said is that gauging head injury levels can be difficult because it can vary so much despite the similarity of the cause. The outlook for me was not very good -- and mine had nothing to do with cycling -- but I seem to have surprised more than a few of my medical people with my ability to make what is regarded as a "remarkable recovery".

I still a little way to go, but it has made me ultra-aware of safety important when riding a bicycle, and doing just about anything else in my day-to-day living.
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Old 04-05-19, 04:51 PM
  #247  
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I believe in helmets. I need a new one for the upcoming busy riding year.
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Old 04-05-19, 05:00 PM
  #248  
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Oh, and two of the other important factors that I picked up were medical questions often during my initial treatment related to smoking and alcohol consumption. For me, alcohol intake went down to almost zero about a decade ago (Machka is not a drinker at all, so my own life has to fit that) and is now permanently zero for the rest of my life. I finished cigarette smoking even longer ago than that. And I have never been an illegal drug user.
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Old 04-05-19, 05:05 PM
  #249  
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Originally Posted by BillyD View Post
I believe in helmets. I need a new one for the upcoming busy riding year.
I was a reader of an another bicycle group a long time ago, and was devastated to read one of the members had his wife fall from a bike while on tour after literally just getting on it. She died because her unprotected head hit the ground. So I understand you post, BillyD.
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Old 04-05-19, 05:08 PM
  #250  
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Speaking of safety, I'm modifying this fender mount with a pocket knife.

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