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What's Healthier, Cycling or Moderate Alcohol Use?

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What's Healthier, Cycling or Moderate Alcohol Use?

Old 05-01-19, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets
I think I'm averaging .4-.5 12 oz beers per day over the past year.
“Life’s Simple 7” program to better heart health seem like common sense. Ways to prevent CHD (coronary heart disease) were found to be...


The seven simple measures that can save your life – or the life of someone you love:

1. Be physically active.

2. Eat a healthy diet.

3. Don’t smoke.

4. Maintain a healthy weight.

5. Keep blood pressure numbers in a healthy range.

6. Maintain healthy cholesterol numbers.

7. Keep healthy blood sugar numbers.


Nothing to do with alcohol is mentioned there although the AHA does concede that recent research does seem to indicate a potential benefit to moderate consumption of alcohol in the prevention of heart disease-- e.g.,



The best-known effect of alcohol is a small increase in HDL cholesterol. However, regular physical activity is another effective way to raise HDL cholesterol, and niacin can be prescribed to raise it to a greater degree. Alcohol or some substances such as resveratrol found in alcoholic beverages may prevent platelets in the blood from sticking together. That may reduce clot formation and reduce the risk of heart attack or stroke. (Aspirin may help reduce blood clotting in a similar way.) How alcohol or wine affects cardiovascular risk merits further research, but right now the American Heart Association does not recommend drinking wine or any other form of alcohol to gain these potential benefits.

The AHA does recommend that to reduce your risk you should talk to your doctor about lowering your cholesterol and lowering high blood pressure, controlling your weight, getting enough physical activity and following a healthy diet.

There is no scientific proof that drinking wine or any other alcoholic beverage can replace these conventional measures.
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Old 05-01-19, 09:40 AM
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Funny to consider that a bike ride followed by a cocktail comprised of 3 parts of bone broth to 1 part blue agave tequila, a squeeze of lime and garnished with a kippered herring and a celery stalk may help prevent heart disease.
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Old 05-01-19, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by McBTC
Funny to consider that a bike ride followed by a cocktail comprised of 3 parts of bone broth to 1 part blue agave tequila, a squeeze of lime and garnished with a kippered herring and a celery stalk may help prevent heart disease.
It would probably be just as healthy without the tequila. Maybe not. Probably tastes different, though. I really don't see anything funny about that except "garnished with a kippered herring." Is that served with some Grey Poupon?
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Old 05-01-19, 10:41 AM
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I tell you something funny. My wife's parents are divorced so I have 2 set of inlaws. Both sets are filled with hard drinkers/alcoholics who try to pass on the family tradition every chance they get. My MIL weaves baskets and does chair caning. She goes to craft fairs on the weekends and sells her wares. My 2 kids are 16 and 14 years old currently. About 5 or 6 years ago we were at a summer craft fair in the Norther Neck of Virginia with them. It was a hot miserable day. It was already in the mid 90s/high humidity by about 11am. They had a shade canopy set up and some fans blowing circulating air, but it was miserable. My wife's stepfather was complaining constantly about the conditions and hoping that they would close/leave early because of the heat. They closed early at 11:30 instead of noon. We packed up and made it back to their house a little after noon. The kids and I went into the house and started watching TV. My wife and inlaws head out onto the back deck, which has a shade roof and set up some fans. They turn on some country music and go to drinking beer. By then the temp had risen to triple digits. My wife comes in after about 15 minutes because it was too hot. Her stepfather came in after that and asked my kids why they are not outside playing. He tells them it is a beautiful day and they should be outside enjoying it. My son looks at him and says something like, "it's not pretty outside, it horrible. It's about 5 degrees hotter than when we were at the craft fair. You kept complaining at the craft fair about how hot it was. The only difference now is that you can drink beer out there. You couldn't at the craft fair. It's too hot we, are staying inside." The stepfather looks at me and I shrug my shoulders and say, "they're not stupid, they are smart kids." The stepfather goes back out. He sits out there the rest of the afternoon in that heat putting away Miller Lites and singing with Kenny Chesney. He only got up to drain his lizard and make room for more Miller Lite. That was a funny exchange between my son and my wife's stepfather. At least it was funny to me.

Last edited by seypat; 05-01-19 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 05-02-19, 11:14 AM
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A guy I raced with used to put diluted beer in his water bottle ... nuts, IMO.
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Old 05-06-19, 09:04 AM
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No impact on craft brewskis due tariff increases on Chinese goods that I can think of... although, China's stock market is apparently taking a helluva beating. I guess bike prices could escalate but perhaps not if made in Taiwan instead of China.
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Old 05-06-19, 09:08 AM
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Time to start stockpiling, ahead of the impending high tariffs against China! A meal of Chinese food is not complete without a couple of these.

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Old 05-06-19, 10:51 AM
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Drink all you want, but don't encourage others to drink...

Originally Posted by McBTC
No, I agree with you-- opinions on opinions about opinions is pretty worthless. But, the latest science on the matter of moderate alcohol consumption and it's positive relation to longevity, and to the extent to which the supposed relationship believed sort of goes beyond science... which is interesting.
You have quoted a number of "studies," opinion pieces, and proferred a variety of items you might describe as factoids, though others might think of them as assertions, all in favor of "Moderate Drinking."

The only people I know/knew who buy/would have bought, into your "healthy Moderate Drinking program" are all alcoholics, and many now deceased (all of whom died by age 68).

Feel free to guzzle if you think doing so will extend your lifespan or keep you from getting Alzheimer's. It probably won't.

Any real science about causal relationships between alcohol consumption and increased lifespans, can only be carried out on bacteria, animals and insects.

Studies of associative relationships between alcohol use and increased longevity or other "health benefits" must be rigorously quantified and qualified to eliminate secondary relationships and missing elements producing results a study sponsor was looking for, such as "better health through moderate drinking."

BTW, I am not a teetotaler, though I don't drink much any more. Three or four beers per sitting - two or three times a year. Think Super Bowl and World Series.

Like most of us, I drank more when I was young and younger. But there was very little good science on the subject then.

The good science that's now out there all indicates no real health benefits from drinking. Those with financial interests in your drinking might tell you otherwise, but those with no ax to grind won't.

After all, every molecule of ethanol contains a radical hydroxyl ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrox...droxyl_radical ) and provides no nutritional benefit of any kind - only empty calories - and possible cellular damage.
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Old 05-06-19, 10:59 AM
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I didn't realize the latest research came out in 2008. That was eleven years ago.
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Old 05-06-19, 11:12 AM
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Moderate Rum Consumption Makes You a Sailor

Originally Posted by McBTC
No, I agree with you-- opinions on opinions about opinions is pretty worthless. But, the latest science on the matter of moderate alcohol consumption and it's positive relation to longevity, and to the extent to which the supposed relationship believed sort of goes beyond science... which is interesting.
Originally Posted by McBTC
snopes is skeptical ...ecember 6, 2010
However, let it be noted that according to her ship's log, "On July 27, 1798, the U.S.S. Constitution sailed from Boston with a full complement of 475 officers and men, 48,600 gallons of fresh water; 7,400 cannon shot; 11,600 pounds of black powder and 79,400 gallons of rum."
-----------6 comments:
  1. Christopher
    October 22, 2013 at 7:39 AMIf you run the the numbers provided:
    - 209 Days on Cruse.
    - 187,700 Total Distilled Spirits Gallons used on cruse.
    - 475men on board

    This equates to 1.89 Gallons per man per day. The US Navy ration for distilled spirits was .5 Pints.
    Thus the author implies that each man aboard Constitution consumed on averag 1.89 Gallons (or 30.25 times his daily ration)a day for the duration of the cruise.

    I should also note that even If one accepts the statistics of distilled spirits loaded aboard the Constitution, one certainly need NOT accept that it was due to crew consumption.

Let's hope not

At 1.89 gallons per day at a proof rate between 95 and 114, (47.5% - 57% alcohol by volume) that's .9 - 1.1 gallons of pure alcohol which would probably kill anyone if consumed within 24 hours.
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Old 05-06-19, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by slowrevs
I didn't realize the latest research came out in 2008. That was eleven years ago.
Not so... e.g.,


December 28, 2018

Association of Alcohol Consumption After Development of Heart Failure With Survival Among Older Adults in the Cardiovascular Health Study

Justin S. Sadhu, MD, MPHS1; Eric Novak, MS1; Kenneth J. Mukamal, MD, MPH2,3; et al
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2719576
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Old 05-06-19, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by slowrevs

Let's hope not

At 1.89 gallons per day at a proof rate between 95 and 114, (47.5% - 57% alcohol by volume) that's .9 - 1.1 gallons of pure alcohol which would probably kill anyone if consumed within 24 hours.
Snopes shoots it down... it's all BS.
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Old 05-07-19, 08:23 AM
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Reading the above study concerning an increase in longevity among a group of older adults, diagnosed with heart disease, who engaged in moderate alcohol consumption. while the Findings were that, "consumption of 7 or fewer alcoholic drinks per week was significantly associated with increased survival compared with abstinence from alcohol, after controlling for other factors," which is similar to other studies as far as defining what constitutes a 'moderate' amount of alcohol, if I read it correctly, "Consumption of 10 drinks per week was associated with the longest survival," i.e., >7 drinks/wk-- perhaps similar to definitions like, e.g., 1 drink /day for women and 2 drinks /day for men as being a moderate amount.
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Old 05-07-19, 11:28 AM
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Still at it I see.
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Old 05-07-19, 01:08 PM
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So!

Originally Posted by McBTC
Not so... e.g.,
My reference to your statement of "the latest research," being 11 years old, followed your post (#147) of this thread, which read:

Originally Posted by McBTC;
The latest research concludes that either heavy alcohol consumption or abstinence can cause dementia (look out around age, 76). If neither is better, one approach is... moderation--e.g., two drinks a day keeps the doctor away?
Loyola University Health System. "Moderate Drinking Can Reduce Risks Of Alzheimer's Dementia And Cognitive Decline, Analysis Suggests." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 31 December 2008. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081229200750.htm>.
Further, your reference to more recent research ( https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2719576 ) ignores one of the major conclusions stated in the linked article, i.e., that drinking more than 7 drinks per week over a long term is associated with the onset of alcohol induced cardiomyopathy.

A close reading of the linked article indicates the authors' lack of certainty in the survival rates of drinkers drinking more than 10 drinks a week as they showed the longest survival. The authors noted that the limited number of study subjects may not have produced accurate results in terms of drawing strict conclusions. They write: "Our study had several limitations. We used a single measure of alcohol consumption after the diagnosis of HF and could not adjust for the association between subsequent changes in alcohol consumption levels and survival. We did not have information about the cause of HF or about left ventricular ejection fraction and cannot comment whether the associations of alcohol consumption and survival differed among patients with reduced vs preserved left ventricular ejection fraction. Given the limitations of our sample size, we did not perform subgroup analyses by age or sex. In addition, the group of patients who consumed more than 7 drinks per week after the diagnosis of HF consisted of only 17 individuals, limiting any conclusions that can be drawn about higher levels of alcohol consumption. Despite attempts to control for important covariates, we cannot exclude the possibility of residual confounding between alcohol use and other favorable prognostic factors influencing its observed association with improved survival."

So, who needs to get heart failure so having a drink a day may extend your life a few more years?

Drink lightly and ride your bike regularly instead.
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Old 05-07-19, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by slowrevs

Drink lightly and ride your bike regularly instead.
This evening I'll be riding to happy hour for some Manhattans.
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Old 05-07-19, 01:43 PM
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Too much ethanol WILL kill you

Originally Posted by McBTC
Snopes shoots it down... it's all BS.
Sorry Charlie, the truth of the matter is that that much alcohol would kill you.

The BS of the story is irrelevant
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Old 05-07-19, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
This evening I'll be riding to happy hour for some Manhattans.
Enjoy your Manhattans and ride safe.
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Old 05-07-19, 01:54 PM
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still at it

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2719576

Originally Posted by McBTC
Reading the above study concerning an increase in longevity among a group of older adults, diagnosed with heart disease, who engaged in moderate alcohol consumption. while the Findings were that, "consumption of 7 or fewer alcoholic drinks per week was significantly associated with increased survival compared with abstinence from alcohol, after controlling for other factors," which is similar to other studies as far as defining what constitutes a 'moderate' amount of alcohol, if I read it correctly, "Consumption of 10 drinks per week was associated with the longest survival," i.e., >7 drinks/wk-- perhaps similar to definitions like, e.g., 1 drink /day for women and 2 drinks /day for men as being a moderate amount.
I don't believe you read it correctly.

I believe you are reading it the way you want to believe it, rather than for what it says.

Findings may be less important than Conclusions or Limitations.

And interpreting another's research to fit your definition of Moderate is a definite No No.

No science there at all.
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Old 05-07-19, 02:47 PM
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Too much of anything usually isn't smart. For example...


Too much exercise can kill you - especially if you're a white man: Study finds 7.5 hours a week of fitness DOUBLES your risk of heart disease

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...white-man.html

Even too much of a good thing can kill you but avoiding exercise altogether isn't going to increase you longevity. That's what I think is interesting here-- the latest research came to the same conclusion concerning consumption of alcohol. That doesn't change the fact that some folks should continue to eschew alcohol of any kind.
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Old 05-07-19, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by slowrevs
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2719576



I don't believe you read it correctly.

I believe you are reading it the way you want to believe it, rather than for what it says.

Findings may be less important than Conclusions or Limitations.

And interpreting another's research to fit your definition of Moderate is a definite No No.

No science there at all.
I don't think any of this is serious. It's a thread.
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Old 05-07-19, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
This evening I'll be riding to happy hour for some Manhattans.
Next time you're in Winthrop, get a bottle of Community Red from Lost River Winery.

Pretty much the only thing I ever drink. I have a case on my self, more to remind me of my favorite place than to actually drink. Their other wines are great, too, but that one is truly special.
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Old 05-07-19, 06:12 PM
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Maybe yes, maybe no - but it certainly is annoying...

Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
I don't think any of this is serious. It's a thread.
Granted, the thread initiator has exhibited annoying characteristics throughout, but the point of the thread from the beginning appeared to be a misleading search engine submission.

Search engines don't discrimenate between fact and fiction, or intent to be honest or mislead. Their algorithms count links and end sources and allocate rank based on those characteristics and a few others.

"Salting the web with misinformation" has become a big business.

Hopefully, a young person who reads this thread may come away with a different perspective than some may have intended.

Have a great week and have a beer or glass or your favorite wine.

Last edited by slowrevs; 05-07-19 at 06:18 PM. Reason: typo fix
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Old 05-07-19, 08:27 PM
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Cheese is good with beer but nuts too... Cheers!
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Old 05-08-19, 10:07 AM
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Beer is best?


Hoist those tankards high. Dutch researchers report in a major medical journal that -- at least in terms of preventing heart disease -- beer is better than either wine or liquor, and all are better than water.

https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/...eart-disease#1
… supposedly due to nutrients in beer -- folic acid and vitamin B-6 -- that help to reduce homocysteine (an amino acid linked to heart disease that is commonly found in meat) levels in the blood. Health opportunity-- ride you bike enough to justify the calories in a daily consumption of a moderate amount of... beer?
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