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-   -   Need to replace drivetrain and trying to figure out what set to upgrade to (https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/1171200-need-replace-drivetrain-trying-figure-out-what-set-upgrade.html)

ckc 189 04-22-19 07:06 PM

Need to replace drivetrain and trying to figure out what set to upgrade to
 
Hi everyone,

I have a 2008 Trek Madone 6.5 that I bought used a couple months ago and I am having trouble getting everything to shift correctly consistently and my bike mechanic said I just need to replace my drivetrain because things are just getting worn out. Ill list out everything the bike has currently below, but Im trying to decide if I should buy a completely new Shimano 11 speed 105 R7000 groupset or spend a little more and get the new Ultegras, or just replace chain rings, cassette, front derailleur, and chain with Ultegra 6700 (which I believe is a 10 speed, so I wouldnt have to do anything with the wheel hub). Will I be able to tell a noticeble difference with a newer 105 11 speed, vs older mix and match 10 speed, or is not worth the extra money??

The bike has a bunch of mismatched things but I will do my best to list everything
Shift Levers - Dura Ace
Front and Rear Derailleurs - Ultegra 6700
Brakes - Dura Ace Rim Brakes
Rear Cassette - 10 speed Ultegra 12-30 (6700 if I had to guess but not positive)
Crank Rings - 50/34 Sram powerglide
Crank Arms - 175 mm Bontrager carbon fiber

I have never done this before, so any other advice would be appreciated!

MoAlpha 04-22-19 07:24 PM

Many here know more than I, but I will go on record as saying that “things are just getting worn out” is not a satisfactory answer from a mechanic. If you are inclined to do less than buy a new group, I would replace the derailleur cables and housings, chain, and cassette, and then reevaluate. Visual inspection will tell you if the chainwheels need to go.

Obviously a new group will be fun to buy, install, and ride, so if that’s what you want, enjoy!

noodle soup 04-22-19 07:34 PM


Originally Posted by MoAlpha (Post 20896248)
Many here know more than I, but I will go on record as saying that “things are just getting worn out” is not a satisfactory answer from a mechanic.

+1

It's a lazy explanation of the problem, but sometimes it's the easiest way to explain it.

Components wear out, and sometimes it's better to replace the whole drivetrain, than to replace a few bits at a time.

Sapperc 04-22-19 09:32 PM

First, I suggest you get a second opinion from another mechanic and have him or her explain what exactly as a minimum needs to be replaced and what specifically is worn, broken, or otherwise wrong and in need of maintenance on your current drivetrain and the rest of the bike.

Having said that, assuming the current drivetrain components are original, you would no doubt experience a quantum leap in performance by installing the current or even last year’s closeout model 105 groupset, but at a huge cost. And Ultegra is going to be not a little more, but much more. And then there is installation, unless you are experienced in installing and tuning the drivetrain and cockpit.

If you can get the bike rolling with new cables, chainrings, and cassette, that is probably the best way to proceed. Make it road worthy, get out and ride it, see what else if anything needs attention, and gauge how enthusiastic you are about cycling and this bike in particular.

Don’t be in a hurry to start dumping money into this thing. There are clothes, accessories and equipment you will want to budget for first. You will always have the option to upgrade.

Best of luck with your bike!

stackinBBs 04-23-19 05:14 AM

I would second the opinion that you may not NEED to replace everything, but on the off chance that you WANT to: I installed an R7000 105 group this spring and so far it's been great. Pretty reasonably priced from Merlin, a considerable upgrade from the old 6600/Tektro mix that was on there, and a quick and easy install (assuming your wheels are 11spd compatible).

ckc 189 04-23-19 07:46 AM


Originally Posted by Sapperc (Post 20896448)
First, I suggest you get a second opinion from another mechanic and have him or her explain what exactly as a minimum needs to be replaced and what specifically is worn, broken, or otherwise wrong and in need of maintenance on your current drivetrain and the rest of the bike.

Having said that, assuming the current drivetrain components are original, you would no doubt experience a quantum leap in performance by installing the current or even last year’s closeout model 105 groupset, but at a huge cost. And Ultegra is going to be not a little more, but much more. And then there is installation, unless you are experienced in installing and tuning the drivetrain and cockpit.

If you can get the bike rolling with new cables, chainrings, and cassette, that is probably the best way to proceed. Make it road worthy, get out and ride it, see what else if anything needs attention, and gauge how enthusiastic you are about cycling and this bike in particular.

Don’t be in a hurry to start dumping money into this thing. There are clothes, accessories and equipment you will want to budget for first. You will always have the option to upgrade.

Best of luck with your bike!

I havent necessarily gotten a second opinion but I have gotten 2 of the best shops in town to try to tune up the shifting and neither one of them have been able to do it where it is working smoothly.

I kind of jump into things completely head first so I already have bike shoes, helmets, clothing etc.

I will probably try to learn how to replace everything myself, I like learning how to work on stuff. But It looked like I can get a complete 105 groupset for $440 or $640 for new ultegra

Do you think the new 105 would be an upgrade from 5-10 year old ultegra and dura ace components?

Dave Mayer 04-23-19 08:07 AM


Originally Posted by ckc 189 (Post 20896856)
Do you think the new 105 would be an upgrade from 5-10 year old ultegra and dura ace components?

I have 2 new bikes with 11-speed 105.

I also picked up 2 used bikes with minimal miles, one with 9-speed Tiagra, and one with 8-speed Shimano 600 STI.

The smoothest and most reliable shifting of any of them? The 25-year old Shimano 600. You have to hand it to Shimano: they did indexed shifting and brifters right - out of the gate.

Best STI shifting I've ever experienced? Dura-Ace 7700. 9-speed. That was one quality gruppo. The materials and finish in this gruppo are definitely 2-levels higher than with the current 105.

I can already hear the howls of protest, that the new stuff is always better than the old. But most of these will be comparisons of old gruppos with worn out chains, gummed-up shifters, and frayed cables.

Right out of the box, the (good) old STI stuff was as smooth/ crisp as the new stuff.

Actually, when Shimano put the shifter cables under the bar tape, it introduced sharper cable bends, and a lot more friction. Plus the shifters started eating cables. Shifting got worse right then.

Sapperc 04-23-19 10:43 AM

This forum is buggy. Lost my response 3 times during auto save. So this will be short. Only fair comparisons are what Dave has done. Actual side by side comparisons of specific bikes. Even then the findings are biased by the testers. ckc 189, only you know your intentions for this bike. Restore the bike or upgrade till there is no where else to go with it. A 2008 bike will have limitations at some point.

My experience is that in the last few years Shimano mechanical road groupsets at 105 and above provide similarly flawless shift performance. It doesn’t need to get any better. The biggest differences between them come down to the materials used and weight savings of the higher end groupsets. But we are talking ounces for the drivetrain and brifters only.

Hope this helps.

popeye 04-23-19 11:00 AM

6mo ago PBK had Ultegra DI2 groupset for ~$1200. Not much diff from DA, I have both.
You tune it with a button press and it holds unless you hit something.

base2 04-23-19 11:24 AM

You can get a cassette for $50, A chain for $20-$30. Cables for $8. And a rear Ultegra 8000 derailleur for ~$75...An R7000 is $50 or so.

$150 if you do it yourself.

Maybe some housing by the foot if you feel so inclined, but you could also just turn the housing around 180 degrees to save a buck or 2.

Since you took it to 2 different shops...Did either shop check the derailleur hanger alignment?

Dave Mayer 04-23-19 11:51 AM

Lots of good maintenance suggestions here.

Except note that the current generation of 11-speed Shimano rear derailluers (plus 10-speed Tiagra) will not be compatible with your shifters.

At our bike Co-op, I would help you install a new chain, new cables and housings. Plus a light spritz of WD40 on the guts of the STI shifters. This would take 30 minutes and cost around $60 all-in. There would be a 95% chance at this point that your shifting would be perfect.

Plus I'd check the rings and cassette for excessive wear. If they were kaput, then things would get more expensive, but still less than the cost of a new gruppo. Likely only your small chainring would need replacement. And if your cassette was worn, we have a large bucket of replacement cassette cogs which could be scavenged to replace only your worn ones. At $1 per cog.

Anyway, all of this would be far cheaper and faster than complete drivetrain replacement.

Plus, you wouldn't have to buy new wheels, as you would with a 11-speed 'upgrade'.

alcjphil 04-23-19 12:09 PM


Originally Posted by ckc 189 (Post 20896221)

The bike has a bunch of mismatched things but I will do my best to list everything
Shift Levers - Dura Ace
Front and Rear Derailleurs - Ultegra 6700
Brakes - Dura Ace Rim Brakes
Rear Cassette - 10 speed Ultegra 12-30 (6700 if I had to guess but not positive)
Crank Rings - 50/34 Sram powerglide
Crank Arms - 175 mm Bontrager carbon fiber

I have never done this before, so any other advice would be appreciated!

Sometimes it is a good idea to go back to the original question. I had a look through this parts list and I have a question: Which version of Dura Ace shift levers? The 7800 exposed cable levers are one of the best versions Shimano ever made. The 7900 with shift cables under the bar tape are not as well regarded. My grandfather was an auto mechanic, very old school. He had trained at the Morris Garages(MG) works. He ran a shop with about 30 employees, including several master mechanics. One of his pet beefs was "stockroom mechanics" who would simply replace parts until the problem was cured

kingston 04-23-19 12:59 PM

I'd go with new centaur or watch ebay for a good deal on a late 2000's chorus 11 speed group.

TiHabanero 04-23-19 06:36 PM

Your bike is 10-11 years old with how many miles? Foul weather riding?

It makes sense that the drive train is shot provided it has 20,000 or more miles on it.

Athens80 04-23-19 07:48 PM

Price replacement chain rings, cassette, front derailleur, and chain versus a 105 group set. You could have all new 5800 under $380 or new R7000 under $450.

Falchoon 04-26-19 04:01 AM

Ditch the SRAM chainrings and get Praxxis or Shimano


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