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Durability of low price low spoke wheels vs 32?

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Durability of low price low spoke wheels vs 32?

Old 04-30-19, 06:57 PM
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Durability of low price low spoke wheels vs 32?

Hi guys I'm basically trying to find some good durable wheels for a coworker. He is 100kg.
Now i see most if not all shimano/campy/mavic cheaper 0-250€ wheelsets use 24 in the rear and 20 spokes up front, pretty much.

I'm trying to find a pair of wheels that will not break spokes during regular use for an older chesini and a new disc equipped genesis croix de fer for my coworker.

He has already broken spokes on the genesis rear wheel. and its 32 spoke, straight gauge though, not dt, not wheelsmith, not sapim as far as i could tell. and the tensions were all over the place. I rebuilt it correctly but i thinks it gonna start breaking more spokes soon.

So now I'm looking for some good quite cheap 32spoke disc wheels. lets stay below 200€
****************************

Then I'm also looking for a some wheels for his older chesini lugged steel bike. He has tubular rims on it now and he wants regular rims. a rebuild is not really on the map here, but instead a new cheap pair of wheels are. I have good luck with my shimano rs-whatever 120€ for a complete set wheels. but I'm 70kg. I just measured the spokes and these are straight guage 2mm, so these are subpar in durability already there.

I'd like to find some 32 spoke butted spokes wheels for his old bike.

Whats out there?

Also how durable will the regular straight guage cheap wheels from shimano/mavic/campy be when they are only 20/24 spoke for a non smooth 100kg rider? I kinda feel NO F-ing way here.

Last edited by carlos danger; 04-30-19 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 04-30-19, 07:25 PM
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If he has already broken 32 spoke wheels, I'd look at 36 spoke wheels at a minimum. It's possible he could get away with fewer spokes and a custom, hand-built wheel, but that eliminates the "low price" requirement in the request.
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Old 04-30-19, 08:22 PM
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the ones he have now are straight guage though. and subpar (machine) builds. I'm thinking "medium well builts" but 32 spoke and eyeletted and butted spokes will do. good rims.

I have found some "customs" on bike24.de that are shimano hub and butted spokes, 32, brass nipples, and one has open pro rims and the other some mavic 300 series rim (the disc ones) and they are under 200€ for each pair. i'm thinking this is the best deal for durability. I can go over them and finish them if required.

thats a lot cheaper than i can build them for him. since it takes me about 3h for each wheel to do properly plus measuring and calculating. and simply ordering/buying the stuff.

chainreaction used to have a custom wheel shop but not they are out of stock with everything. they did quite good builds imo. good enough.
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Old 04-30-19, 11:23 PM
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We use 28 spoke front and rear on our tandem (300 lb team) with no issues.
I think just going off the number of spokes is not a good way to determine a wheels durability.

Last edited by Dean V; 05-01-19 at 02:45 AM.
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Old 04-30-19, 11:34 PM
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Dude might need to spend some money at some point if he wants wheels that will last. Either good handbuilt wheels with enough spokes, or new wheels taken to a trusted wheelbuilder who can ensure that the spokes are at adequate and even tension before they see a lot of miles.
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Old 04-30-19, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Dean V
We use 28 spoke front and rear on our tandem (300kg team) with no issues.
I think just going off the number of spokes is not a good way to determine a wheels durability.
No of course. its always the build quality in the ends that determines durability. and also the judgement of the builder for a specific application. But I will not be building them this time. I'm trying to either find out if run off them mill cheapies will work or the bike24.de ones will be better; all things being equal pretty much.

I cannot assume a 200€ pair will be built good. no way. at least not up to regular standards for hand builts.
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Old 04-30-19, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
Dude might need to spend some money at some point if he wants wheels that will last. Either good handbuilt wheels with enough spokes, or new wheels taken to a trusted wheelbuilder who can ensure that the spokes are at adequate and even tension before they see a lot of miles.

I completely understand this, and this is also my own opinion. i build all my wheels. and i have all the stands and meters.

But in this case both sets have to be cheap. That excludes me building them. But since he has had no good luck with cheap factory builds I wanted to know if any factory cheap ones were better than the other. even just slightly.

and imo 24 in the rear is not a good starting point at least. not for durability. no matter what.
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Old 05-01-19, 05:10 PM
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Ever look at Shimano Sweet Sixteen wheels? Tandem wheels with 16 spokes front and rear. Long and good track record on those wheels.

32 spoke wheels are good. Redundancy is good. 32 is enough to hold anyone. OP admits the wheel with breaking spokes has erratic tension. If the tension is no good probably fewer than 16 spokes are ever doing anything except being along for the ride.

Wheels that work are well built wheels. You can find them for cheap. You can also spend thousands and get not much for it. I handbuild for people who already own megabuck wheels and they tell me they've never had wheels so good as mine. Well, those people have been unlucky. The more you spend the better the chances the wheels are good but no guarantees. OP should find someone local with a good reputation for wheelbuilding. That is not the most expensive builder. Yellow Jersey in Wisconsin still builds large numbers of wheels, has built tens of thousands, the labor charge per wheel is $25. A build takes 15-20 minutes and they are probably working the phone or responding to email while the build is in progress.

Ten days ago I picked up a pair of wheels for free. Brought them home and checked them. One spoke on the rear wheel had low tension. Tightened that one spoke. And then both wheels were perfectly trued, perfectly tensioned, perfectly dished. And they ride great. A few years back I got a rack of about a dozen wheels from a collector who had aged out, moving to smaller quarters. I salvaged a few hubs and some QRs. Every one of those wheels a total disaster. Both donors knew a whole lot about bikes. One had good wheels and the other had none.
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Old 05-01-19, 05:49 PM
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Pre-built wheels. Fulcrum is tight with Campagnolo. One way to look at these is they are Campy-designed on a product line that Campy is happy to give away. That may not be completely accurate and if someone with inside info wants to correct me please do. All Fulcrum has been a best buy for several years. This price is pretty good. Shipping included. Spoke count does not matter.

https://www.merlincycles.com/fulcrum...es-124672.html
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Old 05-01-19, 11:35 PM
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Running Alex Rims XD-Lites, Velocity hubs, 36H rear and 32H front.

I'm currently 335lbs. Have ridden them at 350lbs. No issues.

Cost me $600 aus.

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Old 05-02-19, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by 63rickert
Pre-built wheels. Fulcrum is tight with Campagnolo. One way to look at these is they are Campy-designed on a product line that Campy is happy to give away. That may not be completely accurate and if someone with inside info wants to correct me please do. All Fulcrum has been a best buy for several years. This price is pretty good. Shipping included. Spoke count does not matter.

https://www.merlincycles.com/fulcrum...es-124672.html
Yep, everytime I need another set of wheels I always seem to go with Fulcrum or Campagnolo bought from one of the UK sites. You just can't beat the value with any handbuilt or other brand wheels. All of mine have been totally bombproof and I weigh in the 190 lb range and ride really crappy roads for 5000-8000 miles on a typical year. I've had Mavic's that would never stay true and handbuilts using Kinlin rims that have cracked but my Fulcrums just stay working day in and day out.
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Old 05-02-19, 07:31 AM
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The OP is already ragging on Fulcrum/Campy in another thread; it's a curious blend of know-it-all/I-need-some-advice.
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Old 05-02-19, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
The OP is already ragging on Fulcrum/Campy in another thread; it's a curious blend of know-it-all/I-need-some-advice.
It is a curious blend. The brands he likes have some very low price wheelsets available. Which was the original query.

And if he does know so much all I can say is in my half century and more doing this, there has never been a better time to pick up stuff for free.
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Old 05-24-19, 02:54 PM
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I dont need advice. I needed to know if you guys knew anything in the fairly good but kinda cheap department that i could not find myself.
Anyway my coworker got new wheels for his croix de fer.

He got Hope XC up front with a disc hope hub/welded rims/eyelets/brass nips/32 spoke/butted spokes 1,8-2,0 (but the butts are much shorter than the dt swiss comps, the butts start 1cm from the threads/bends, whereas the butts on dt stars several cm away from that on the comps). the spokes were not dt brand.

the rear wheel was also a hope but this time the enduro, the rest was the same as above.

I think this cost like 300-350€ from CRC and if you only get the hubs separately it will be very close to that cost from CRC. So I'd say its a good deal. quality hubs and hopefully quality build.

--------------------

kommuter kolnago also got new wheels but this time built by me.

dt 240 f/r with 54t ratchet.
dt comp 1,8-2,0 spokes
28/32
brass nipples
archetype rims, silver up front, black hard ano rear.
silver spokes/black brass nips up front
black spokes silver nips rear.

saved me 200g over my 120€ 20/24spoked straight gauged shimano rs010 or whatever they are called.
I'm guessing the weight was saved only in the hub department since the all steel shimanos usually weigh about 400g
and a dt240 with alu freehub is 250 or similar. but i got more spokes. and better/more durable spokes.

did these go faster?? i kinda doubt it... maybe, just maybe they are slightly faster if i go 95-100% and going very fast. I feel they do accel a bit faster though but it could very well be 100% psycholgical/placebo. its most likely placebo.
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Old 05-24-19, 03:00 PM
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oh yeah they are built to last. not be light.
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Old 05-26-19, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by carlos danger
I dont need advice.
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