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What would you miss more - comfort of 28 mm tires or convenience of tubeless?

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway
View Poll Results: What wheelset would you choose?
Cosmic Pro Carbon UST Disc (25mm, UST)
7
58.33%
Reynolds AR41 DB (28mm, probably PITA tubeless)
5
41.67%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

What would you miss more - comfort of 28 mm tires or convenience of tubeless?

Old 05-04-19, 10:41 AM
  #1  
igs417
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What would you miss more - comfort of 28 mm tires or convenience of tubeless?

Rider profile: late thirties, 84 kg, road cycling for three years, 150-200 km weekly, solo rides 60-120 km, mostly rolling terrain, no racing, endurance riding, averaging 28-31 km/h

Bike: Canyon Endurace, CF frame, disc brakes, full Ultegra R8000, carbon aero cockpit (H31), split carbon seatpost (S15 VCLS 2.0 CF), aluminium Mavic Ksyrium Elite UST

Reason for upgrade: increase in speed/distance, without compromising comfort and convenience, bling factor


Wheel requirements

  • mid-depth 40-50 mm aero, carbon, disc
  • optimized for 28 mm tires (external rim width 30-31 mm): lower rolling resistance, more comfort, better grip, currently riding 28 mm tires (never really ridden 25 mm), general trend points towards 28 mm, not really willing to go backwards
  • tubeless: big fan of road tubeless, Mavic UST on my current wheels works perfectly
  • long term serviceability
Choice narrowed to these two below. Advantages/disadvantaged listed in the level of importance (to me).


Cosmic Pro Carbon UST Disc
(45 mm deep, 19 mm inner width, 28 mm outer width, 1.650 grams, Mavic hubs, straight pull spokes, aluminium nipples)




  • optimized for 25 mm tires: loss of comfort, higher rolling resistance, (28 mm tires could be used, but then aero advantage is lost))
  • UST, problem free tubeless installation, from personal experience
  • easy access to service and spare parts: Mavic dealer in the neighborhood
  • deeper choice (45 mm), more aero - possibly annulled by higher rolling resistance tires
  • comes with Mavic Yksion Pro tires (poorer performance compared to Conti GP5000TL of the same width)
  • 3 year warranty (draw - most manufacturing defects manifest during initial period of usage, can't imagine lot of defect that occur after three years of use and are covered by limited manufacturer warranty)
  • 1.199 EUR (tires and sealant included)

Reynolds AR41 DB
(41 mm deep, 21 mm inner width, 30 mm outer width, 1.630 grams, Reynolds TR2 hubs, Sapim sprint spokes, brass nipples)




  • fully optimized for 28 mm tires: full comfort and low rolling resistance
  • probable issues with tubeless installation: no confirmed compatibility, forums report experiences from "impossible" to "nightmare"
  • questionable service in Europe (reynoldscycling.com lists only USA dealers, reynoldscycling.eu points to single service center in Germany, in late 2018 Reynolds was acquired by Hayes so Hayes service network will be integrated but such integrations are usually messy in the beginning)
  • narrower choice (41 mm), less aero - possibly annulled by lower rolling resistance tires
  • if mounted with Conti GP5000TL: best in class performance on 28 mm tubeless tires
  • lifetime warranty (draw - most manufacturing defects manifest during initial period of usage, can't imagine lot of defect that occur after three years of use and are covered by limited manufacturer warranty)
  • 1.199 EUR (without tires, pair of Conti GP5000TL and some sealant would be additional 120 EUR, not very important)
Looks like hit and miss both ways.

If I go with Mavic and don't find 25 mm tires comfortable enough, I can switch to 28 mm, but aero penalty kinda kills the point of aero wheels in the first place.

If I go with Reynolds, tubeless could be a PITA (most probably), I can ditch tubeless and just go with tubes, but I loose convenience of tubeless.

Not really considering other wheels options - if I'm forced to go to 25 mm tires, only UST can justify it. On the other hand, if I'm ditching UST, I won't do it for another set of 25 mm optimized wheels.

What would you miss more - comfort of 28 mm tires or convenience of tubeless?
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Old 05-04-19, 11:02 AM
  #2  
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This is some first-class hand-wringing.

FWIW, I wouldn't let a handful of accounts of mounting difficulty dissuade you. There's all kind of incompetence out there, and those folks are all too willing to let you know how their gear failed them. Even if I didn't own a set of Reynolds myself (Assaults; I've run various tubeless tires, from 25mm to 38mm, and never had to resort to anything other than bare hands to mount), I would have a hard time believing that they would so thoroughly screw the pooch with mounting difficulty/compatibility.
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Old 05-04-19, 08:44 PM
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Dirty little secret: The "aero" advantages of 41mm and 45mm deep wheels aren't that great, even when optimized. The benefits are miniscule, microscopic -- a tiny fraction of the benefit of, for example, an aero helmet or a well-fitting jersey. I understand that they look stylish and I have a set on my road bike, but I don't for an instant kid myself that they make me faster in any real sense.

All that to say . . . don't get worked up about the aero "disadvantages" of the tire/wheel interface. The differences are measurable in a theoretical sense, but not perceptible from the saddle. Just buy the wheels that look the best to you or that will make you happiest. Tire/wheel interface differences are so tiny as to be almost imaginary.
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Old 05-05-19, 12:11 AM
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Dean V
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Does it matter if your average 29.1 kph instead of 29.2 kph for your solo ride?
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Old 05-05-19, 12:33 AM
  #5  
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Last month I bought a Mavic Ksyrium Elite UST rear. It comes with all you need including the tire. Set up was simple. Mount the tire without tools. Pump up with a floor pump. Follow directions for sealant. A breeze. I've had two rides for about a total of 50 miles. I can't believe how smoothly and easily the bike now rolls. I wasn't expecting to be this surprised and happy. I get the front wheel on Tuesday. Can't wait.

FWIW, there is a video on youtube where they measure the rolling resistance of 25mm clinchers, tubulars and tubeless. The best was tubeless significantly.
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Old 05-05-19, 12:34 AM
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I can feel and appreciate the difference between my aero wheels and my box section rims. Whether they impact my average speed much or not (depends on the ride), I sprint faster on them. And that's more fun.
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Old 05-05-19, 01:54 AM
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Old 05-05-19, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
This is some first-class hand-wringing.

FWIW, I wouldn't let a handful of accounts of mounting difficulty dissuade you. There's all kind of incompetence out there, and those folks are all too willing to let you know how their gear failed them
+1

I would choose the Reynolds wheelset over the Mavic one, but would prefer Light Bicycle over either of them.
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Old 05-05-19, 10:03 AM
  #9  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
+1

I would choose the Reynolds wheelset over the Mavic one, but would prefer Light Bicycle over either of them.
Another vote for the LB. Just done a half a dozen rides on them and love them. Love the price the best ;-)

Also using them on an Endurace. the 56mm wheels with 25mm Conti tubeless, which measure at 28 plus. Very nice ride.
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Old 05-05-19, 11:38 PM
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Interesting notion here: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...000-comparison

See chapter: Rolling Resistance at the Same Comfort Level (4.5 mm tire drop)

25mm tire @ 87psi/6.0bar vs 28mm tire @ 81psi/5.6bar = same comfort level (?!) and rolling resistance

I've always assumed that lower pressure equals more comfort per se.
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Old 05-06-19, 12:08 AM
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Vote for Cosmic Pro Carbon UST Disc (25mm, UST). it out-perform other wheels with its low rolling resistance, deliver a smoother ride, and reduce your risk of punctures, but it's also the most user-friendly tubeless system when it comes to installation, removal and maintenance.
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Old 05-06-19, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by deepakvrao View Post
Also using them on an Endurace. the 56mm wheels with 25mm Conti tubeless, which measure at 28 plus. Very nice ride.
How do you compare comfort level on these to 28mm stock tires on Endurace (GP4000, I suppose)?
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Old 05-06-19, 05:01 AM
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Do 25 on the front and 28 in the rear.
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Old 05-06-19, 05:20 AM
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I'm thinking that isn't like running 70 series tires on the rear of your Chevy Nova.

And in my case neither, I might miss whitewalls.
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Old 05-13-19, 10:58 PM
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Looks like Light Bicycle also joined the game of wide rims: https://www.lightbicycle.com/carbon-...rim/Falcon-Pro

These are 25mm internaly, 32mm externaly, and 38 or 50 mm deep, clearly optimized for 28mm tires.

They are offering complete wheelsets build around those rimes, with DT Swiss 350 hubs and Sapim CX spokes for about 970 USD + shipping and handling.

What do you guys think about those? How they will compare to Hunt 48 LIMITLESS once Hunt actually releases those?
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Old 05-14-19, 12:36 PM
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Those look like nice wheels. But....they only take paypal? Is that legitimate?? I guess both the company and the payment method...seems like it might be a scam.
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Old 05-14-19, 12:56 PM
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Light Bicycle wheels are highly reputed in here.

That's a seriously high weight limit!
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Old 05-14-19, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Light Bicycle wheels are highly reputed in here.

That's a seriously high weight limit!

I better up my cheesecake and beer intake. It will be difficult, but I'd hate to waste wheelbuilders' hard work.
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Old 05-14-19, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
Those look like nice wheels. But....they only take paypal? Is that legitimate?? I guess both the company and the payment method...seems like it might be a scam.
PayPal is legit, and so is Light Bicycle.

PayPal is a very safe payment method.
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Old 05-14-19, 02:46 PM
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Well if interwebs people vouch for them, that's good enough for me

Looking at this one: https://www.lightbicycle.com/700C-V-...ompatible.html

Tubeless, 56 deep, 30mm wide, 1620 grams with CX ray spokes, brass nipples, DT swiss hubs. With 28 spokes should be great for road and cross. $720 built up.
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Old 05-14-19, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
Well if interwebs people vouch for them, that's good enough for me

Looking at this one: https://www.lightbicycle.com/700C-V-...ompatible.html

Tubeless, 56 deep, 30mm wide, 1620 grams with CX ray spokes, brass nipples, DT swiss hubs. With 28 spokes should be great for road and cross. $720 built up.
That’s the wheelset I have. About 1800 miles in, and I cannot find a fault.
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Old 05-14-19, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
That’s the wheelset I have. About 1800 miles in, and I cannot find a fault.

I will definitely keep those in mind. Not only are they cheaper than what I've been considering...they seem to just be a better fit also. I've noticed most lighter wheelsets tend to use aluminium nipples...I really want to part of AL nipples to save 50gram at the cost of probably rounding off a nipple every time I true a wheel. Wheels 30mm wide, while available, are pretty few and far between it seems.

Hah, is this yours??



https://www.lightbicycle.com/photowa...one-tires.html

Last edited by Abe_Froman; 05-14-19 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 05-14-19, 03:22 PM
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That’s my bike.

I went with 24 spokes and aluminum nipples, but I understand your desire for brass nipples.
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