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Enve's new 3.4 ARs look hot

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Enve's new 3.4 ARs look hot

Old 05-12-19, 10:30 PM
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Seattle Forrest
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Enve's new 3.4 ARs look hot

https://www.enve.com/en/products/ses-3-4-ar/

These are fondo wheels, aerodynamic when paired with 28 mm rubber. The future is disc and no tubes.
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Old 05-13-19, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
https://www.enve.com/en/products/ses-3-4-ar/

These are fondo wheels, aerodynamic when paired with 28 mm rubber. The future is disc and no tubes.
That's prettt much exactly what I'm looking for. Too bad it's more than double what I could conceivably convince myself to spend on wheels
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Old 05-13-19, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
The future is disc and no tubes.
Disk is fine but tubeless setup is such a pain when someone goes through three or four sets per year.

If I'm about to head out and notice a tubed rear tire is worn I can swap it in about 20 minutes while I drink coffee in my kitchen.


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Old 05-13-19, 10:08 AM
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I've had a set of basically the same wheels, but deeper rims, for a couple years now. I didn't realize when I bought them how only being able to run tubeless tires would limit my choices. I thought by now there would be a couple dozen more options. You can't use GP5ks with these wheels, I don't know why. That said, there are excellent 28 mm road tubeless tires available.
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Old 05-13-19, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
tubeless setup is such a pain when someone goes through three or four sets per year.

If I'm about to head out and notice a tubed rear tire is worn I can swap it in about 20 minutes while I drink coffee in my kitchen.


-Tim-
It takes me all of about 15 minutes to change a tubeless tire, and I having a spare wheelset to use is an even quicker swap.

You make it sound more difficult than it is
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Old 05-13-19, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
You can't use GP5ks with these wheels, I don't know why. That said, there are excellent 28 mm road tubeless tires available.
Huh. I just looked at their listing.

So, bead circumference/diameter for tires (and rims...) is a cluster**** in the industry right now. 622 millimeters doesn't actually mean 622 millimeters...it means 622 millimetersISH. Companies build whatever size they want, and then slap 700c/622 on it. That's not so big an issue for tubed tires (other than some tires being a ***** to get on, and others just sliding right on...), but from what I understand it causes all sorts of seating issues with tubeless. I would assume the tires ENVE lists are those that are the closest to the diameter ENVE decided to manufacture their wheels at.

I wish more companies would take the time to actually measure up and/or test tires for use on their rims.
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Old 05-13-19, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
You can't use GP5ks with these wheels, I don't know why.
The last time I looked, Enve hadn't tested the combination yet. I guess they've changed that now.
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Old 05-13-19, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
Huh. I just looked at their listing.

So, bead circumference/diameter for tires (and rims...) is a cluster**** in the industry right now. 622 millimeters doesn't actually mean 622 millimeters...it means 622 millimetersISH. Companies build whatever size they want, and then slap 700c/622 on it. That's not so big an issue for tubed tires (other than some tires being a ***** to get on, and others just sliding right on...), but from what I understand it causes all sorts of seating issues with tubeless. I would assume the tires ENVE lists are those that are the closest to the diameter ENVE decided to manufacture their wheels at.

I wish more companies would take the time to actually measure up and/or test tires for use on their rims.
I think it's just the opposite -- tubeless is bringing some much-needed attention to consistency in rim and tire manufacture. If a tire is too tight to install even with proper tape and an air compressor, or if X tire blows off of Y rim, you will hear about it far and wide, and makers can't just shrug it off like they did pre-Internet. The old days of loosey-goosey tires and rims with tall sidewalls to make up for them weren't necessary that great.
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Old 05-13-19, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Disk is fine but tubeless setup is such a pain when someone goes through three or four sets per year.
How many miles do you ride a year, or do you just ride endless miles of chipseal?
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Old 05-13-19, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
How many miles do you ride a year, or do you just ride endless miles of chipseal?
7800 last year.

Some of those miles were on other bikes but even so, a Vittoria Rubino G+ Speed on the rear will wear out in 1200 miles. I went through at least three on my road bike.

Corsa G+, Turbo Cotton and other race oriented tires are going to wear similarly.


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Old 05-13-19, 11:07 AM
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^^^

That was my immediate question as well-- I can get a full year out of a front tire, with 10,000 miles split between two bikes. I got 13 months and 5,800 miles out of a 700x35, and the front 700x25 on the road bike was mounted last June, a good ways past 4,000 on it.

But I know what I'm doing, so mounting/unmounting a tubeless tire is never really a bother. And it's "clean mess" vs. "dirty mess." A little latex on the shop floor isn't going to kill anyone.
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Old 05-13-19, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
How many miles do you ride a year, or do you just ride endless miles of chipseal?
4+ sets of tires per year is about right for me, but I ride 10-12 thousand miles per year
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Old 05-13-19, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
^^^

That was my immediate question as well-- I can get a full year out of a front tire, with 10,000 miles split between two bikes. I got 13 months and 5,800 miles out of a 700x35, and the front 700x25 on the road bike was mounted last June, a good ways past 4,000 on it.

But I know what I'm doing, so mounting/unmounting a tubeless tire is never really a bother. And it's "clean mess" vs. "dirty mess." A little latex on the shop floor isn't going to kill anyone.
+1.

On the side of the road it might be a PITA to fix a hole that won't seal, but at home/shop it's no big deal.
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Old 05-13-19, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
It takes me all of about 15 minutes to change a tubeless tire, and I having a spare wheelset to use is an even quicker swap.

You make it sound more difficult than it is

My experience with tubeless is with 38 mm and larger gravel tires and I could be wrong about the ease with which road tires assemble onto road wheels compared to gravel setups.

As an example, Panaracer Gravel King SK and Schwalbe G-One Allaround are sometimes very difficult to get fully seated and require soapy water or Schwalbe EZ-fit fluid to lube the beads. Even so, getting them to snap onto the bead isn't always a given.

Are road tires not as difficult to seat?

I also use a compressor and am pretty sure a flash charger type pump would be much more convenient. At a minimum, it would allow me to seat the tires in my kitchen.

Do you use a flash pump? If so, can you suggest a model?


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Old 05-13-19, 11:27 AM
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Anyway, tubeless aside, I've stopped lusting after ENVE components after building a bike with their seatpost and SES aero bar in early 2018.

No one like high-end gear more than I but Enve just isn't nice enough to justify the price. It is nice, just isn't that nice. There are better values out there especially from the custom builders.


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Old 05-13-19, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
My experience with tubeless is with 38 mm and larger gravel tires and I could be wrong about the ease with which road tires assemble onto road wheels compared to gravel setups.

As an example, Panaracer Gravel King SK and Schwalbe G-One Allaround are sometimes very difficult to get fully seated and require soapy water or Schwalbe EZ-fit fluid to lube the beads. Even so, getting them to snap onto the bead isn't always a given.

Are road tires not as difficult to seat?

I also use a compressor and am pretty sure a flash charger type pump would be much more convenient. At a minimum, it would allow me to seat the tires in my kitchen.

Do you use a flash pump? If so, can you suggest a model?


-Tim-
I use a compressor and a PTS-1 if the bead is stubborn to seat.




Installing the tires with a tube first can also help. I keep 1 spare tubeless tire on an old wheelset at all times. When a tire needs to be replaced, it's already stretched and ready to go.

The Schwalbe G-One Speed tires went on without a problem, and inflated easily with a standard floor pump.
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Old 05-13-19, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
7800 last year.

Some of those miles were on other bikes but even so, a Vittoria Rubino G+ Speed on the rear will wear out in 1200 miles. I went through at least three on my road bike.

Corsa G+, Turbo Cotton and other race oriented tires are going to wear similarly.


-Tim-

I was getting get 4-6K miles out of my Turbo Cottons, more from my vulcanized Turbos before I switched to tubeless a few weeks ago. Even after I pulled the old tires, I get another few K miles from them as trainer tires. You must be retiring tires earlier than I do.
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Old 05-13-19, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
7800 last year.
You deserve great wheels more than I do.
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Old 05-13-19, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
https://www.enve.com/en/products/ses-3-4-ar/

These are fondo wheels, aerodynamic when paired with 28 mm rubber. The future is disc and no tubes.
Can someone put out all new 'optimum' inflation charts.. I guess the old 15% deflection thing is defunct or doesn't work for tubeless.
71psi for a 180lb rider using 23mm tire on these? Really? 85psi for a 250lb rider?
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Old 05-14-19, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Can someone put out all new 'optimum' inflation charts.. I guess the old 15% deflection thing is defunct or doesn't work for tubeless.
71psi for a 180lb rider using 23mm tire on these? Really? 85psi for a 250lb rider?
Maybe, except a 28mm tyre is the minimum for that rim.
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Old 05-14-19, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
Maybe, except a 28mm tyre is the minimum for that rim.
Even so, Mavic's newer charts built for tubeless (below) suggest inflations a good amount higher than Enve lists. Just wondering if anyone has done the same type of optimum deflection testing that led to all of the calculators out there for tube+tire combos, eg. Bicycle tire pressure calculator

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Old 05-14-19, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
It takes me all of about 15 minutes to change a tubeless tire, and I having a spare wheelset to use is an even quicker swap.

You make it sound more difficult than it is
That and I feel that tubeless gives me a little bit more wiggle room when it comes time to replace. The level of wear on a tubed tire that might give me pause before a ride (out of concern for the probability of punctures) isn't quite as worrisome to me with tubeless.
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Old 05-14-19, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Even so, Mavic's newer charts built for tubeless (below) suggest inflations a good amount higher than Enve lists. Just wondering if anyone has done the same type of optimum deflection testing that led to all of the calculators out there for tube+tire combos, eg. Bicycle tire pressure calculator
These Enve are hookless and their chart is for recommended pressure. Their max pressure (bottom line, in red) is probably where they start to be concerned about tires blowing off of the rim (plus a bit of safety margin). The Mavic chart is not for suggested inflation values, but for max inflation values. Do they have any hookless designs? I'm not aware of any, and that could certainly account for the discrepancy.

In any event, I'm in the 85-90kg region and 70psi is more than adequate on my 30mm tires with 17mm int width rims; given the significantly wider rims, the recommended Enve pressures don't seem out of line to me.
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Old 05-14-19, 06:40 AM
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how safe is it to ran 28mm on a 25mm internal rim with hookless design? won't there be a high chance of blowout?
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Old 05-14-19, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Chi_Z View Post
how safe is it to ran 28mm on a 25mm internal rim with hookless design? won't there be a high chance of blowout?
If there was a high chance of blowout at realistic pressures, I would think that a manufacturer like Enve would figure that out before optimizing a 25mm int. width rim for a 28mm tire.
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