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Cracked wheel-need advice

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Cracked wheel-need advice

Old 05-18-19, 11:30 AM
  #1  
jmp998
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Cracked wheel-need advice

I ride a 2017 Trek Domane ALR4 Tiagra with Shimano disc brakes. Pretty much everything is original except consumables such as tires.

I just noticed multiple cracks around one spoke on the rear wheel, one of the cracks is about 1 mm wide and that area is actually pulling away slightly from the rest of the rim.

I need to replace the wheel, but I have no idea where to start. I am 200 pounds, ride recreationally only (usually by myself) about 50-100 miles per week, on mostly flat roads at a relatively leisurely pace of around 16-18mph. Should I be looking at LBS or order something online? This is my only road bike since the 1980's, so I really don't know whether the stock wheels are 'good' or not. I think I would be happy with a comparable but more durable replacement. Cost is not a huge issue, but I don't want to waste money. I would like to replace quickly since this is my only bike other than an old and undersized cheap hybrid which is uncomfortable to ride more than 30 minutes.

I currently ride 700x32 GP 4 Seasons tires, and plan to continue to use similar size tires if that matters.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Also can I ride this wheel in the meantime, or is it going to fail catastrophically and cause a crash?
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Old 05-18-19, 12:15 PM
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I just ordered some replacement wheels from Velomine. I went with Velocity Deep-V 36 spoke rims on 105 hubs (I wanted as durable a wheel as possible because I'm a clyde). Cost $240 for both wheels, and shipping was very quick. I don't have any miles on the wheels yet, but Velomine seems to be very well regarded so I'm not too worried. I'd check out their offerings -- they also have Mavic wheels and many others.
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Old 05-18-19, 01:23 PM
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I'd be worried.
Breaking a spoke can ruin your day(especially on a low spoke count wheel). Take to LBS to ask what they think but if there are cracks I'd stay off it. Those are only the cracks that you CAN see.
I think you are probably at the upper limit for weight for those wheels. I would look for at least 28-32 spokes; more like 32.
Any chance you still got warranty?
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Old 05-18-19, 01:46 PM
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I second not riding the wheel. I'm not generally paranoid about risky equipment...but riding a wheel that is pre-broken is just asking for the worst kind of bike trouble.
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Old 05-18-19, 02:02 PM
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Ok I didn't think I would be able to ride it, but doesn't hurt to ask.

My LBS says $400 for a new, similar wheel installed-which sounds like a lot considering I only paid $1500 for the entire bike new. If I order from someplace like Velomine, what is involved in installing the new wheel? I don't have any experience swapping out hubs etc, the most I have ever done is replace a worn cassette. I don't want to be truing, dishing, or whatever.
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Old 05-18-19, 02:13 PM
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Haven't been wheel shopping recently but seems to me you can get a decent wheel set for $400. Shop around.
No skills to change wheels; just swap out cassette and skewers. Wheels should come ready to ride.
You sound like a big guy. Beware of low spoke count wheels. Most have upper weight limits. For instance my wheels are 22 spoke front 24 spoke rear and I believe the upper weight limit was 220lbs.
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Old 05-18-19, 03:36 PM
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IME, rim cracks like that develop slowly and the failure mode is that a spoke loses tension

& the rim rubs on the brake pad- hardly catastrophic.

I had a wheel with that issue. It may have had cracks for a year before I noticed, & it never did actually fail.

A new wheelset online should be fine- no truing etc. needed.

https://www.wiggle.com/fulcrum-racin...road-wheelset/

https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-w.../11365362.html

Sale on Genuine Shimano RS100 Road Bike Wheels (Front+Rear) PLUS FREE Continental GatorSkin 700x28c Road Bike Tires
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Old 05-18-19, 04:02 PM
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A new wheelset will come read to ride; you just need to remove and install the cassette, as mentioned.

There are tons of options. First set that comes to mind is Shimano Ultegra, which you can find for $300. Not a high spoke-count wheel, but quite reliable, and give you the option to run tubeless tires if you'd like (or not).
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Old 05-18-19, 05:12 PM
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Thanks for suggestions everybody. Turns out my LBS does not actually have anything compatible in stock that is not super-expensive. Bike is out of warranty but the shop where I bought it (not quite so local) says they will try to get a free replacement anyway, sometimes they have luck doing so.

Otherwise I will probably order a 'bombproof' set from Velomine or Prowheelbuilder, so that I don't have to deal with this again.
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Old 05-19-19, 08:23 AM
  #10  
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Yeah, first step is to try to get Trek to replace what’s a poorly built wheel in the first place. Then ride that a while till the same problem occurs, than buy a set of hand builds as recommended here.
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Old 05-19-19, 08:54 AM
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From what I can see these were 24 spoke wheels. At your weight that is borderline. I would still however look at just replacing the rim and having it rebuilt by the shop. They are likely to be able to build a stronger tighter wheel than the (likely) machine built wheel that it came with. There really is no need to toss the entire wheel. This option won't be anywhere near as expensive.
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Old 05-19-19, 07:04 PM
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Warranty

Did you buy the bike new from a Trek dealer? Trek used to warrant there Bongrager wheels for 5 years to the original buyer. I had a set of regular Bontrager wheels on my 2005 Madone I bought new. Less than a year and the rear cracked as you described. It was replaced under warranty. But Im over 200 lbs too. So I I had to tighten a few spokes every few hundred miles. Until last summer and the replacement broke. So a new set of carbon wheels. They have stayed straight for almost a year. About 3,000 miles.

So check the warranty route first.
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Old 05-22-19, 09:40 PM
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While waiting to hear from Trek I got a couple of quotes for better (stronger) wheels. Both would be 32 spoke, brass nipples, similar weight. Velomine is about $100 cheaper. Any reason to choose one build over the other besides cost?

Velomine: H Plus Son Hydra rims 25mm, SRAM 900 Hubs, DT Swiss Competition 2.0/1.8/2.0 double butted spokes

ProWheelBuilder: HED Belgium Plus rims 25mm, Shimano 105 hubs, Sapim Leader J bend 14g/2.0mm spokes
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Old 05-23-19, 09:18 AM
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200# cannot be called lightweight. But any good wheels should take that without complaint. That's my current weight (hopefully less by summer's end) and my wheels are light and old. 350 gram rims that are 60 years old. Hubs from 1950s and 1930s.

Wheels should last 20,000 to 30,000 miles. Less than 10,000 something is wrong.

Rims and spokes always get blamed. Possible but not likely. The usual problems are bad builds and abuse. Let's try abuse first. Nothing in your posts suggests you are a stunt rider. How's your inflation pressure? Checked frequently? You do understand your 32s require less air than 25s. 100psi in a 32 would be very hard on any rim. Do you carry baggage? Baggage is unsuspended weight and is far worse on wheels than rider weight. If you can check off all those quibbles as not likely the problem is the build. Weak builds are very common. I would vouch for Velomine's builds and have only had a good impression of Prowheelbuilder. Both rims you are considering are so strong they would operate a good long while even if badly built. Good wheels also just feel better and you will be pleasantly surprised.

Trek owes you a wheel. Good luck with that, it could go either way.
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Old 05-23-19, 12:55 PM
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I'd vote H+Son w/ sram 900 hubs, pending what disc you have now, you will likely need 6bolt disc, i'm sure the shimanos are centerlocks on your bike.

H Plus Son Archetype Road CX Gravel Disc Wheelset SRAM 900 32h [741171] - $389.00 Velomine.com : Worldwide Bicycle Shop, fixed gear track bike wheelsets campagnolo super record vintage bike
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Old 05-23-19, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jsigone View Post
I'd vote H+Son w/ sram 900 hubs, pending what disc you have now, you will likely need 6bolt disc, i'm sure the shimanos are centerlocks on your bike.
Maybe I misunderstand your post-but I was assuming the Hydra wheelset suggested by Velomine would be compatible with my discs, which are centerlock, since I did specify centerlock when requesting a recommendation from them? I thought if I bought the wheels, I could just use my old discs and cassette without having to buy new ones (the disc rotors seem in good shape, and this cassette has only about 1000 miles on it).
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Old 05-23-19, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
200# cannot be called lightweight. But any good wheels should take that without complaint. That's my current weight (hopefully less by summer's end) and my wheels are light and old. 350 gram rims that are 60 years old. Hubs from 1950s and 1930s.

Wheels should last 20,000 to 30,000 miles. Less than 10,000 something is wrong.

Rims and spokes always get blamed. Possible but not likely. The usual problems are bad builds and abuse. Let's try abuse first. Nothing in your posts suggests you are a stunt rider. How's your inflation pressure? Checked frequently? You do understand your 32s require less air than 25s. 100psi in a 32 would be very hard on any rim. Do you carry baggage? Baggage is unsuspended weight and is far worse on wheels than rider weight. If you can check off all those quibbles as not likely the problem is the build. Weak builds are very common. I would vouch for Velomine's builds and have only had a good impression of Prowheelbuilder. Both rims you are considering are so strong they would operate a good long while even if badly built. Good wheels also just feel better and you will be pleasantly surprised.

Trek owes you a wheel. Good luck with that, it could go either way.
No stunt riding. I sometimes ride until dusk, so I do hit the occasional pothole, but I am not hopping curbs or anything. I do not carry any cargo, just me, 2-3 water bottles, and a very small seat bag. I usually inflate to 80 PSI front and 90 PSI rear, I thought that would be about recommended to get good ride quality but avoid risk of pinch flats. I only have about 2500 miles on these wheels, as I bought this bike October 2017 and in the winter I mostly Zwift on a wheel-off trainer.

Trek has agreed to a one time replacement, but it will be with the same type wheel, so I would guess I will back in the same spot in a year or so.
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Old 05-24-19, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jmp998 View Post
No stunt riding. I sometimes ride until dusk, so I do hit the occasional pothole, but I am not hopping curbs or anything. I do not carry any cargo, just me, 2-3 water bottles, and a very small seat bag. I usually inflate to 80 PSI front and 90 PSI rear, I thought that would be about recommended to get good ride quality but avoid risk of pinch flats. I only have about 2500 miles on these wheels, as I bought this bike October 2017 and in the winter I mostly Zwift on a wheel-off trainer.

Trek has agreed to a one time replacement, but it will be with the same type wheel, so I would guess I will back in the same spot in a year or so.
2500 miles to failure is truly pathetic. There has been a complete quality control failure. Modest overpressure (according to my standards, which are not ultimate and perfect) does not cause this.

It is possible your failed rim has an erratic extrusion and was going to fail quickly in any case. If that were so good chance the replacement is not so bad. This is not the most likely scenario, it does happen. Cut up failed rims and measure them, be surprised how inconsistent they are. Still not the likely cause. All OEM rims are way overbuilt.

First choice is the original wheel was erratically tensioned. When spoke tension is uneven only a few spokes are doing the work, the rest are just along for the ride. It is very possible to build a dead true wheel with tension all over the place. Other possibility is the wheel was severely overtensioned. Both of these scenarios happen all the time.

Since you have a new wheel at no cost spend an extra 10 or 20 and have a wheelbuilder inspect and re-tension the wheel. If the wheel guy at LBS has no notion why you want this service, he can't perform the service. Sadly, shop-built wheels are mostly a thing of past and basic skills are going away. Anyone good can take a built wheel and bring it up to where it should be in 5 minutes flat. A wheel serviced this way is going to ride noticeably better.
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Old 05-24-19, 08:15 AM
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I would guess these are machine built wheels coming from Trek, so I think I will ride 50-100 miles or so to settle it in then take to LBS and have them retension. Thanks for the good suggestion.
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Old 05-24-19, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jmp998 View Post
I would guess these are machine built wheels coming from Trek, so I think I will ride 50-100 miles or so to settle it in then take to LBS and have them retension. Thanks for the good suggestion.
I wouldn't even bother trying to settle them in by riding. A decent wheelbuilder will set the spoke elbows and stress-relieve on the stand.
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Old 05-24-19, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jmp998 View Post
Maybe I misunderstand your post-but I was assuming the Hydra wheelset suggested by Velomine would be compatible with my discs, which are centerlock, since I did specify centerlock when requesting a recommendation from them? I thought if I bought the wheels, I could just use my old discs and cassette without having to buy new ones (the disc rotors seem in good shape, and this cassette has only about 1000 miles on it).
centerlock is an invention from Shimano, Sram would never put CTR locks on their hubs, universal standard is the 6 hole rotors. You will have to get new rotors if running SRAM hubs, the cassette can carry over no problem. Shimano likely makes the same disc you have but in 6 bolt pattern as well.

Hydra rims at 25mm wide should be nice over the other Archtypes 23s. few friend roll on the archtype and love em, the Hydra will feel a bit better. They should both roll well with any size road tire fitting your domane.

H Plus Son Hydra Road CX Disc Wheelset SRAM 900 Hubs [741221] - $409.00 Velomine.com : Worldwide Bicycle Shop, fixed gear track bike wheelsets campagnolo super record vintage bike

https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/p.../sram-900-hubs
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Old 05-24-19, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I wouldn't even bother trying to settle them in by riding. A decent wheelbuilder will set the spoke elbows and stress-relieve on the stand.
This is correct. I have built about 15 or so wheels and I can confirm that the stress relieving (all methods) and banging heads and elbows with a copper hammer/punch is definitely needed during the actual build. for stress relieving i do the twist a screwdriver handle to make the spokes turn around themselves method (in a crossing) and also the push the crossing into the center method. and also the push the rim to the ground method when you have the wheel on the floor.both sides (this one you need to do often).

I have one pair on my commuter lynskey. the wheels are dt240 disc front and rear. and dt comp spokes and dt xr440 front and tk540 rear rim. these wheels have about 10000km on them and about 3 weeks ago i felt i needed to check the tensions. 5 years in or so.

turned out 1 spoke on the front and 1 spoke on the rear had loosened about 2 notches on the park tool tensiometer. thats it. I simply tightened those, and since i use molykote in the threads this was easily done without windup or slip/stick action. All wheels i have ever built was built with molykmote in the threads. both spoke and nipple. and even 10 years after they turn smooth as butter when adjusting. go figure... you do the math.
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Old 05-24-19, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
Yeah, first step is to try to get Trek to replace whats a poorly built wheel in the first place. Then ride that a while till the same problem occurs, than buy a set of hand builds as recommended here.
I think they have like a one year replacement guarantee on their wheels
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