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Crabon bikes are fast!

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Crabon bikes are fast!

Old 06-05-19, 05:48 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
I conclude that Strava's power estimates are garbage.
They can be quite close on hills. I looked at a recent 7%, 8min hill and the Strava estimate was within 2% of my SRM.
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Old 06-05-19, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by carlos danger View Post
and also epo.
Where do I buy that? Does it come in red?
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Old 06-05-19, 06:11 PM
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comes in all colors including the win color. just call up amgen or whoever is the current tour provider. they will hook you up all day long.
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Old 06-05-19, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
I don't think you're doing it right.

Crabon, more speeds, everything points to faster. Of course, Ultegra>105, but there is some time between. Might be a wash there, simply because after a couple years, Ultegra is Dura Ace, and 105 is Ultegra.
Everything except my 61 year old body. Surely the 2017 11 speed 105 is better than my 1992 8 speed Ultegra. Could be the 26mm tires vs 23 but I doubt it. I’m getting stronger as the season goes on and my avg speed is going up. Could also be that the settings on my bike computer were wrong last year. Either way it’s no big deal to me.
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Old 06-05-19, 10:34 PM
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Is all this based on one ride on each bike? Ride each bike 10 times and come back with the mean values for each ride and there might be something to talk about. It’s equally possible that you were just feeling better the day you rode the carbon.
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Old 06-06-19, 05:09 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
They can be quite close on hills. I looked at a recent 7%, 8min hill and the Strava estimate was within 2% of my SRM.
Even a broken clock...
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Old 06-06-19, 05:20 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Even a broken clock...
The physics work well on hills and unpredictable wind is less of an issue. No reason power estimates should be off significantly on steep hills as the math is not complicated provided you know speed and weight.
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Old 06-06-19, 07:25 AM
  #83  
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Physics and mathing aside, this is all about crabon, and how much faster it is than steel.
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Old 06-06-19, 07:46 AM
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I tried this about 2 years ago, riding the same route on my steel Ritchey and crabon Cervelo. Couldn't get it to work. The Cervelo finished the ~44 mile course 19 minutes faster (2h14m vs. 2h33m for the steel) at an obviously higher average speed (19.7mph vs. 17.6mph,) but my unweighted power was 8% higher on the Cervelo (224w compared to 206w,) and avg. HR was 12% higher (152 vs. 134.) I expected the carbon to be faster, and then worked harder, so it was. So something like physical confirmation bias?

I'm sure my crabon would be marginally faster at the same effort (or more common in my case, the same speed for less effort) under the same conditions just by virtue of being about 6lbs lighter than the steel. If I were to just ride them both around a high school running track for an hour at a fixed output, I don't know how much difference there would be if any.
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Old 06-06-19, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
Where do I buy that? Does it come in red?
Make your own with a sharpie.

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Old 06-06-19, 08:02 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
Physics and mathing aside, this is all about crabon, and how much faster it is than steel.
Yeah, and if there's one thing I've learned in racing various things over the years, it's that "fast" and "speed" are two different things.
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Old 06-06-19, 09:28 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
They can be quite close on hills. I looked at a recent 7%, 8min hill and the Strava estimate was within 2% of my SRM.
Doesn't that further my point? It CAN be accurate, or it CAN be way way off. Seems to confirm "Strava's power estimates suck" "because they can be somewhat accurate, and terribly wrong".
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Old 06-06-19, 05:10 PM
  #88  
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One of my steel bikes is faster over the same course than another of my steel bikes. The stiffer frame is the slower one. The faster bike is 13 years older than the slower one. I have never ridden crabon nor ever used a power meter. Anecdotal evidence.

Strava gives me grossly overstated elevation gains here in pancake land.

Neither bike is red.
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Old 06-06-19, 06:00 PM
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The older bike is more experienced, so it is probably more efficient.
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Old 06-06-19, 06:08 PM
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Yeah but..... This is all about crabon bikes being fast, not older steel bikes being faster than old steel bikes.

I know for a fact by the data put up that crabon would be faster than both.
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Old 06-06-19, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post


They approve the 'magical' ride that only steel can provide
Itteh bitteh kitteh committeh approves!
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Old 06-06-19, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
Doesn't that further my point? It CAN be accurate, or it CAN be way way off. Seems to confirm "Strava's power estimates suck" "because they can be somewhat accurate, and terribly wrong".
They suck on the flats but based on the data I have they're accurate for hills 7+%. If you don't have a powermeter you can get a very close estimate of your power for a given duration by riding up a steep hill.
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Old 06-07-19, 07:06 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
They suck on the flats but based on the data I have they're accurate for hills 7+%. If you don't have a powermeter you can get a very close estimate of your power for a given duration by riding up a steep hill.
You're not convincing anyone.

People with powermeters know this. And people without powermeters have no use for this. It's completely meaningless.
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Old 06-07-19, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
You're not convincing anyone.

People with powermeters know this. And people without powermeters have no use for this. It's completely meaningless.
Not trying to convince anyone of anything just laying out some facts. Whether power is meaningless is an individual question.
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Old 06-07-19, 08:58 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
You're not convincing anyone.

People with powermeters know this. And people without powermeters have no use for this. It's completely meaningless.
This is a fact.

The other fact in this thread is: Crabon bikes are fast!
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Old 06-07-19, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post


They approve the 'magical' ride that only steel can provide
I hope those kittens are going to a good home
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Old 06-08-19, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
I tried this about 2 years ago, riding the same route on my steel Ritchey and crabon Cervelo. Couldn't get it to work. The Cervelo finished the ~44 mile course 19 minutes faster (2h14m vs. 2h33m for the steel) at an obviously higher average speed (19.7mph vs. 17.6mph,) but my unweighted power was 8% higher on the Cervelo (224w compared to 206w,) and avg. HR was 12% higher (152 vs. 134.) I expected the carbon to be faster, and then worked harder, so it was. So something like physical confirmation bias?

I'm sure my crabon would be marginally faster at the same effort (or more common in my case, the same speed for less effort) under the same conditions just by virtue of being about 6lbs lighter than the steel. If I were to just ride them both around a high school running track for an hour at a fixed output, I don't know how much difference there would be if any.
it still a result.

To be honest it doesn't really matter what made the crabon bike faster, the only thing that matters is that it was faster, higher HR/power/whatever or not.

I think lightweight crabon is faster too than my steel and ti bikes but i go so slow about 25-30km/h so for me it simply doesn't matter, so i go for comfort, durability and looks instead.

But i also feel there is more to it than "all carbon", many things more. and its more to it than "aero/light/stiff". its more the whole package that matter than individual specs or materials. and they work together. Comfort and ergonomics are high on my list. I have no science to prove it though.
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Old 06-08-19, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by seedsbelize View Post
One of my steel bikes is faster over the same course than another of my steel bikes. The stiffer frame is the slower one. The faster bike is 13 years older than the slower one. I have never ridden crabon nor ever used a power meter. Anecdotal evidence.

Strava gives me grossly overstated elevation gains here in pancake land.

Neither bike is red.

I think if you painted the faster one in red you would see even more gains!
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Old 06-08-19, 02:38 PM
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I'm not a red bike kinda guy, but I now have one that I got as a frame set. I just finished the build yesterday, and took it out this morning. I've been off of all bikes for nearly a month, for various reasons. And that red bike had stats which were quite astounding, considering I am still in the final throes of a cold and have very little in the way of cardiovascular health. Time will tell.
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Old 06-08-19, 03:02 PM
  #100  
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you see!!

now imagine if you were to have a red italian made frame!! yeah... maybe twice as fast then i can tell you. you can take that to the bank.
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