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When do you say something?

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

When do you say something?

Old 06-22-19, 04:14 PM
  #1  
Doge
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When do you say something?

Does anyone feel it is appropriate to give unsolicited coaching to a complete stranger that looks like they need it?

When the faster (looking like training for a big event) folks pass you and really are not doing it right, and I think - if they'd listen, they could pick up a lot of speed.
I keep my mouth shut. So much talent and ability wasted on poor setup, position, technique.

PM me if you want my assessment
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Old 06-22-19, 04:25 PM
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WhyFi
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You should totally talk to them - if there's one thing I've learned, it's that people *love* unsolicited advice.
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Old 06-22-19, 04:25 PM
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berner
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I sometimes offer unasked for advice on fit to a parent whose child is clearly poorly fitted. My reasoning is the a poor fit would reduce a child's pleasure in cycling, perhaps to the point of not wishing to ride. Most parents seem appreciative. I always complement the child with a "nice bike". This always gets me a big grin.
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Old 06-22-19, 04:26 PM
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Never.

-Bandera
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Old 06-22-19, 04:32 PM
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Voodoo76
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@Doge, I hear ya man. Thats a tough one but I've found that it pretty much gets ignored anyway. What does some old dude know?
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Old 06-22-19, 04:33 PM
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seau grateau
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Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
Never.

-Bandera
+1 It's obnoxious and the advice is usually **** anyway.
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Old 06-22-19, 04:36 PM
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I listen, and appreciate it, but rarely give it, unless an opinion is asked for. Unfortunately, for many, if it's not on YouTube, it's not real.
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Old 06-22-19, 05:01 PM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by seau grateau View Post
+1 It's obnoxious and the advice is usually **** anyway.
Mine isn't. But they don't know that. So I don't give it.
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Old 06-22-19, 05:06 PM
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woodcraft
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I'll take it! Have limited talent, don't want to to waste.

I'll occasionally give advice for bad seat heights,

more to someone that I know & am riding with (Dude, pull those elbows in!).
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Old 06-22-19, 05:09 PM
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Only for 2 things.

I will tell a parent that their child's helmet is not on correctly and offer to help adjust it.

Also when someone is clearly in the wrong gear when climbing. Many recreational riders don't understand how to use gears and are either in the large chainring and/or a small cog when going up hill. A few times after talking to riders we went back to the bottom and there were amazed how much easier it was when in the right gear.

Otherwise they are on their own to learn the hard way.
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Old 06-22-19, 05:11 PM
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Saying something directly won't work. The advice needs to be passed along a communication channel indirectly. It will get to the people the person does listen to. It also needs to be in general info form instead of about the particular person. It will come up for discussion and get discussed.

For example, if the person is struggling with his bidon flip:

"I was reading on BF the other night about learning to do the Rapha bidon flip. The general consensus was that XX cages and ZZ bottles were the best brands to use. The XX cages held the bottle with just the right amount of pressure. The ergonomic design of the ZZ bottles seems to work better with all sizes of hands. It really helps the people with small hands. I haven't been satisfied with my bidon flipping as of late. I might take a look at the websites and get some more info."

Last edited by seypat; 06-22-19 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 06-22-19, 05:19 PM
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dmanthree
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It's situational for me. Examples:

Helmet on backwards: I speak up.
Helmet not fastened: I speak up.
Pedaling in a high gear, grinding using a *slow* cadence? I shut up.
Riding while wearing bibs "topless:" I look away. Unless, of course...
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Old 06-22-19, 05:30 PM
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Only when I see someone with a grossly too short saddle height. Nothing more.
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Old 06-22-19, 05:48 PM
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Having never been so presumptions as to give unsolicited coaching advice to complete strangers who looks like they need it, but are those folks who pass you, but really are not doing it right, what is the proper etiquette for conveying one's Superior knowledge of cycling-rightness? Is this the proper scenario?

Having already been passed how does one convey unsolicited coaching advice while wheezing up after a desperate all-out chase to the complete stranger while laden with lactic acid and desperately short of O2? "Wheeze/Urp wait a second!" does not really set the stage for a plausible and masterful critique of the unknown passer's "not-rightness".

After a reasonable if lengthy recovery does one then get right to the issue at hand and remark:
"I see that you passed me back there, but without rightness in various forms involving a distinct lack of speed, technique and may I say both 'elan and style.
These can all be rectified by following my extensive and detailed diatribe on your many faults, and my solutions to each and every one of them."

"Hey, where did they Go?"

-Bandera

Last edited by Bandera; 06-22-19 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 06-22-19, 06:00 PM
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My general response to unsolicited advice from strangers is "F-off". So I tend to anticipate that response before giving advice, and comply with it ahead of time, saving us both a lot of trouble and annoyance.
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Old 06-22-19, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
Having never been so presumptions as to give unsolicited coaching advice to complete strangers who looks like they need it, but are those folks who pass you, but really are not doing it right, what is the proper etiquette for conveying one's Superior knowledge of cycling-rightness? Is this the proper scenario?...
Well that is my question. That is why I posted.
For the purposes of this thread...
FACT - they are doing it wrong.
FACT - slower rider knows more.

Shoot - I only hire older less able people to coach my kids - because they know more.
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Old 06-22-19, 06:28 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Well that is my question. That is why I posted.
For the purposes of this thread...
FACT - they are doing it wrong.
FACT - slower rider knows more.

Shoot - I only hire older less able people to coach my kids - because they know more.

How could you possibly "KNOW" that they are doing it wrong. Right now you might see me lugging up some local hills in the wrong gear. I am doing this intentionally because I may have an upcoming ride where I will not have the right gears on my bike, so I am assessing my ability to deal with that fact.

I can't imagine giving unsolicited advice on the road to a complete stranger. I thought this was a joke when I first read the original post.

dave
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Old 06-22-19, 06:29 PM
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FACT - they don't know you.
FACT - they don't know your credentials.

People generally do not like unsolicited advice from total strangers. Get to know them first and broach the subject after you've established rapport.

Go ahead and tell a total stranger they are doing it wrong, see what you get.
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Old 06-22-19, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
Having never been so presumptions as to give unsolicited coaching advice to complete strangers who looks like they need it, but are those folks who pass you, but really are not doing it right, what is the proper etiquette for conveying one's Superior knowledge of cycling-rightness? Is this the proper scenario?...
What brought this up was a very polite women today with an Australian accent was riding a very nice FELT Tri bike. She made a comment about being a coach herself.
She was very strong.
She asked if she could draft us a bit. Then she went off not needing our draft.
Her position needed a lot of work. Her pedal stroke was off.
I don't completely get the Tri thing, but I do get the TT thing (not a troll - just 30 years).
I asked my wife that as she was so nice, if it was worth giving any pointers. Wife said no, and I agreed.
I believe pointers would have been a significant help.
I could have suggested a coach for a fraction of the cost of the bike she was riding.
But...I shut my mouth.
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Old 06-22-19, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC View Post
How could you possibly "KNOW" that they are doing it wrong. Right now you might see me lugging up some local hills in the wrong gear. I am doing this intentionally because I may have an upcoming ride where I will not have the right gears on my bike, so I am assessing my ability to deal with that fact.

I can't imagine giving unsolicited advice on the road to a complete stranger. I thought this was a joke when I first read the original post.

dave
Because it is pretty established at elite levels how to do it right.
There is a significant difference between low RPM and doing it wrong.
A tell is the left/right movement of the knees. No good rider lugging, or otherwise at any RPM has wobbly knees due to torque/power.
That is wrong. If you do that - you are a bad rider. Soft pedal at any RPM you want. But the body tells a lot. Some can read that, and some can't.

Anyway, I gave no advice. See just posted context.
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Old 06-22-19, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
Riding while wearing bibs "topless:" I look away. Unless, of course...
Do people really do this?
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Old 06-22-19, 06:54 PM
  #22  
Dean V
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I don't.
At best they will ignore you and carry on doing what they are doing.
At worst you will get varying degrees of negative response.
I think it can only work if they know you and respect your experience and knowledge.
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Old 06-22-19, 06:59 PM
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Before this becomes an how-elite-we-are thread the context is in the OP.
Say you see someone on an upright bike pedaling with their heals.

Then they say they are training for...a whatever next step that you have knowledge about.

Does that change a thing?

So you say, "you might want to try your forefoot".
Or you say "that's nice".
As they pedal by you.
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Old 06-22-19, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
FACT - they are doing it wrong.
FACT - slower rider knows more.
1) Anyone who passes me can only be "doing it so wrong" for a fact after all, well done.

B) I'd not put universal full faith and confidence in selecting slow riders for knowing fitting and coaching techniques for going fast, seems like a fundamentally flawed theory to me.

-Bandera
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Old 06-22-19, 07:02 PM
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Unsolicited advice to strangers will never be anything but rude in my opinion. To give the advice you have to presume way too much no matter what the situation.

And besides, there is not "right way". Just think Froome....
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