Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Giving up Ti and going back to carbon

Notices
Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

Giving up Ti and going back to carbon

Old 07-14-19, 11:05 AM
  #1  
MyTi
6-4 Titanium
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 326
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 31 Times in 28 Posts
Giving up Ti and going back to carbon

I really like my Litespeed titanium road bike but to properly convert it to disc brakes it would cost a fortune. Basically $1100 to get the disc tabs welded in the rear, remove the original brake studs, and a bunch of other miscellaneous stuff. Then it would cost me probably around $300 for shipping, and probably another $600 for an Enve carbon road bike disc brake fork. Then on top of that I'd still need to change my group to a disc brake group...and to keep things budget I'd probably settle on a 105 disc brake group which is another $600.


So total cost to convert an old Litespeed Ti road bike to disc...$2600...lol and who knows how good those welds are gonna be. I'm sure it'll be fine but who knows a lot can go wrong I guess.


I can easily get a carbon bike with a full Ultegra disc groupset, thru axles, all the bells and whistles, etc. easily for less than the cost of that modification/upgrade.


Unfortunately a new disc brake ti bike equivalent to my current Litespeed is going to cost around $6k with a good group. Just can't justify spending over $3k and up on a bike however.


So as much as I love Ti I am back to carbon.
MyTi is offline  
Old 07-14-19, 11:10 AM
  #2  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,534
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 240 Times in 161 Posts
or get something like this

Save Up To 60% Off Disc Brake, FREE SHIP* TO THE 48 US Hydraulic Disc Brake, Advanced Titanium Road Bikes NEW Motobecane Le Champion TI DISC PRO Shimano R8000 Ultegra 22 Speed+ Hydraulic Disc Brakes
noodle soup is offline  
Old 07-14-19, 11:30 AM
  #3  
masi61
Senior Member
 
masi61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 2,165

Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 432 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 16 Posts
Is converting a rim brake classic Litespeed road bike to disc even possible? Maybe somebody that does a lot of custom ti work might take on the task of retrofitting a flat disc caliper mount on the rear non-driveside chainstay but then there is the issue of rear dropout spacing from QR 130 to QR 135mm. Not ideal at all.

So how does the bike ride right now? Is the rim braking lacking in some way? Can you optimize it in some way?

If you really want disc and titanium I 2nd what the previous poster put up about the Bikes Direct ďMotobecaneĒ model. There was a thread about that bike last week & it sounds like a great value @ ~$2,000.

Having a titanium hydraulic disc sloping top tube tapered fork through axle properly designed road bike frame to me is a great investment. Paying the upcharge for something really special is probably worth it. I imagine if you keep looking, youíll find some more affordable options out there.

But rebuilding a classic ti road bike into a configuration it was not originally designed for, would account to future disappointment. For one, your tire size options would be terribly limited. This nullifies one of the coolest things about disc road frames, the flexibility to use disc only rims with whatever tires your heart desires.

Better to start with a proper, modern disc platform...

Last edited by masi61; 07-14-19 at 11:35 AM.
masi61 is offline  
Likes For masi61:
Old 07-14-19, 12:02 PM
  #4  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,534
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 240 Times in 161 Posts
Originally Posted by MyTi View Post
Even if you race unless you are a paid to race, sponsored professional, it makes zero sense to spend thousands on a bike.
when did you turn pro, and get sponsored?

noodle soup is offline  
Old 07-14-19, 12:20 PM
  #5  
growlerdinky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 633

Bikes: 1980-82 Colnago Super, 2014 Giant TCR Composite 2, 1999 Bianchi Campione, 1985 Schwinn Super Le Tour

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
What's wrong with the "full rim brakes" on your Vortex?
growlerdinky is offline  
Likes For growlerdinky:
Old 07-14-19, 12:23 PM
  #6  
Marcus_Ti 
Frozen Solid.
 
Marcus_Ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 4,798

Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2000 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 64 Posts
Originally Posted by MyTi View Post
I really like my Litespeed titanium road bike but to properly convert it to disc brakes it would cost a fortune. Basically $1100 to get the disc tabs welded in the rear, remove the original brake studs, and a bunch of other miscellaneous stuff. Then it would cost me probably around $300 for shipping, and probably another $600 for an Enve carbon road bike disc brake fork. Then on top of that I'd still need to change my group to a disc brake group...and to keep things budget I'd probably settle on a 105 disc brake group which is another $600.


So total cost to convert an old Litespeed Ti road bike to disc...$2600...lol and who knows how good those welds are gonna be. I'm sure it'll be fine but who knows a lot can go wrong I guess.


I can easily get a carbon bike with a full Ultegra disc groupset, thru axles, all the bells and whistles, etc. easily for less than the cost of that modification/upgrade.


Unfortunately a new disc brake ti bike equivalent to my current Litespeed is going to cost around $6k with a good group. Just can't justify spending over $3k and up on a bike however.


So as much as I love Ti I am back to carbon.
No you would not need to change groups. You need to do more research if you think so. The calipers are called TRP HyRd BTW.

Nice bikes are expensive to build today. Is this shocking news? Buy a carbon frame and build it up with Ultegra--it will cost a similar $4-$5K easily. Buy it pre-built and it will still easily cost $3K+....unless you're shopping used or wicked sales.
Marcus_Ti is offline  
Old 07-14-19, 12:28 PM
  #7  
datlas 
Beyond Bogus
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 28,803

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 399 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8951 Post(s)
Liked 171 Times in 110 Posts
You may have to change your screen name too.

Sad!
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28 View Post
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Likes For datlas:
Old 07-14-19, 12:38 PM
  #8  
Pirkaus
Coffin Dodger
 
Pirkaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,723

Bikes: Motobecane Vent Noir, Lynskey R345, Serotta Nova Special X

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 497 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 10 Posts
Lynskey , has complete bikes in your price range.
Pirkaus is offline  
Likes For Pirkaus:
Old 07-14-19, 12:42 PM
  #9  
datlas 
Beyond Bogus
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 28,803

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 399 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8951 Post(s)
Liked 171 Times in 110 Posts
Of course the real question is do you really “need” to convert to disc brakes.

If you you want to, it’s your choice how you do it but rim brakes are plenty viable on a road bike.

(ducks)
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28 View Post
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Likes For datlas:
Old 07-14-19, 12:43 PM
  #10  
Chi_Z
Senior Member
 
Chi_Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 299

Bikes: Niner RLT 9 RDO

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by Pirkaus View Post
Lynskey , has complete bikes in your price range.
at their weights, you might as well go steel
Chi_Z is offline  
Old 07-14-19, 12:48 PM
  #11  
eja_ bottecchia
Senior Member
 
eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,460
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 825 Post(s)
Liked 176 Times in 126 Posts
I once owned a Litespeed Classic. It was a very nice bike; I sold it because it didn’t fit me quite right (I bought it used).

I wouldn’t get rid of a nice Ti bike just to get disc brakes. Lots of alternative rim brakes, such as the TRP mentioned by others.
eja_ bottecchia is offline  
Old 07-14-19, 12:56 PM
  #12  
seau grateau
Senior Member
 
seau grateau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: PHL
Posts: 9,688

Bikes: Litespeed, IRO

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1207 Post(s)
Liked 133 Times in 74 Posts
But we were all so invested in you riding titanium bikes.
seau grateau is offline  
Likes For seau grateau:
Old 07-14-19, 02:57 PM
  #13  
jadocs
Senior Member
 
jadocs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 873

Bikes: Litespeed T2 Disc, Fondirest P4 Carbon, Fuji Cross 2.0, Specialized Fatboy

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 362 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 70 Posts
Why donít you just sell it and pick up a disc version on sale from Litespeed, Lynski, or Moto?

Iím the opposite I will not go back to carbon. My carbon bike is now my secondary bad weather bike.
jadocs is offline  
Likes For jadocs:
Old 07-14-19, 03:59 PM
  #14  
MyTi
6-4 Titanium
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 326
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 31 Times in 28 Posts
Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
Is converting a rim brake classic Litespeed road bike to disc even possible? Maybe somebody that does a lot of custom ti work might take on the task of retrofitting a flat disc caliper mount on the rear non-driveside chainstay but then there is the issue of rear dropout spacing from QR 130 to QR 135mm. Not ideal at all.

So how does the bike ride right now? Is the rim braking lacking in some way? Can you optimize it in some way?

If you really want disc and titanium I 2nd what the previous poster put up about the Bikes Direct “Motobecane” model. There was a thread about that bike last week & it sounds like a great value @ ~$2,000.

Having a titanium hydraulic disc sloping top tube tapered fork through axle properly designed road bike frame to me is a great investment. Paying the upcharge for something really special is probably worth it. I imagine if you keep looking, you’ll find some more affordable options out there.


Yes it’s possible, I got the quote to do it, it’s like $1100 for a full retrofit including rear dropout spacing to 135mm..This is from a reputable place that most people recommend. The litespeed vortex rides great…it’s as optimized as it can be as far as braking...good pads, toe in, etc. Disc brakes would perform better since I ride in the fog a lot.

As for the Moto I’m sure that’s fine for most, but I’ve tested that frame actually. Any real power on that bike and there is some ridiculous flex near the BB area. I literally felt like I was yoyoing when pedaling on that thing. You can’t really compare a 6-4 Ti litespeed vortex with oversized diamond shaped tubing and bladed rear triangle to some run of the mill motobecane ti frame. I’d say newer litespeed and Lynskey 6-4 ti frames are good but most run over $3k.

Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
No you would not need to change groups. You need to do more research if you think so. The calipers are called TRP HyRd BTW.

Nice bikes are expensive to build today. Is this shocking news? Buy a carbon frame and build it up with Ultegra--it will cost a similar $4-$5K easily. Buy it pre-built and it will still easily cost $3K+....unless you're shopping used or wicked sales.


Not shocking I was hoping to get away with not spending more than $500 for the modification. I was reading some threads on how some guys got a guy who knows a guy ti do it for $300.

Originally Posted by Pirkaus View Post
Lynskey, has complete bikes in your price range.


Ya they still run over a thousand more than a carbon offering. I want to stay in the $2k range with ultegra disc group and can’t do that with Lynskey or litespeed. I think the extra grand might be worth it but can’t justify spending more than 3k. Seeing a couple of shattered carbon frames in the TDF this year sure gives me pause though about going carbon. Carbon is inferior to Ti without a doubt.

Originally Posted by growlerdinky View Post
What's wrong with the "full rim brakes" on your Vortex?
Nothing. Full Rim brakes simply don't perform as well as full disc brakes with all the fog / moisture in SF / Norcal.

Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
Why don’t you just sell it and pick up a disc version on sale from Litespeed, Lynski, or Moto?

I’m the opposite I will not go back to carbon. My carbon bike is now my secondary bad weather bike.
Considering it actually. Lynskey's prices are not too bad. After tax though probably looking at $3500 after taxes with 105 for a complete bike where as a carbon with better specs...full Ultegra will be $2k.

Last edited by MyTi; 07-14-19 at 04:07 PM.
MyTi is offline  
Old 07-14-19, 04:21 PM
  #15  
jadocs
Senior Member
 
jadocs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 873

Bikes: Litespeed T2 Disc, Fondirest P4 Carbon, Fuji Cross 2.0, Specialized Fatboy

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 362 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 70 Posts
I think you can do better than that. This way you have a bike that is designed from the ground up for disc and you are not jerry rigging it.
jadocs is offline  
Old 07-14-19, 05:06 PM
  #16  
masi61
Senior Member
 
masi61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 2,165

Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 432 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 16 Posts
[QUOTE=MyTi;21026685]

Yes itís possible, I got the quote to do it, itís like $1100 for a full retrofit including rear dropout spacing to 135mm..This is from a reputable place that most people recommend. The litespeed vortex rides greatÖitís as optimized as it can be as far as braking...good pads, toe in, etc. Disc brakes would perform better since I ride in the fog a lot.

As for the Moto Iím sure thatís fine for most, but Iíve tested that frame actually. Any real power on that bike and there is some ridiculous flex near the BB area. I literally felt like I was yoyoing when pedaling on that thing. You canít really compare a 6-4 Ti litespeed vortex with oversized diamond shaped tubing and bladed rear triangle to some run of the mill motobecane ti frame. Iíd say newer litespeed and Lynskey 6-4 ti frames are good but most run over $3k.



That's a big expense to hot rod your Litespeed Vortex. The stiffer diamond shaped tubing and bladed rear triangle do sound nice. I'm building a Wittson Illuminati titanium disc bike. This Lithuanian builder is less known in the US but you might check him out.

I have procrastinated completing this build but apparently it is time. I have ridden about 1400 miles this year on my titanium bike, a Veritas with rim brakes and Dura Ace 7800 components. The ride is amazing compared with my old friend, my aluminum Flyte SRS-3 (which I have ridded over 10x as many miles on). The innate shock absorption of the titanium, combined with the oversized tubing of my Veritas (Ohio made) frame, added to my 28 x 28 hole Dura Ace 7700/Mavic Open Pro 2 cross wheels with lightweight DT Swiss butted spokes (not the standard butted ones) along with Vittoria latex inner tubes run at medium pressures (85 front, 89 psi rear) provide stiffness but with a non-jarring ride that I accidentally discovered. The bike I bought used and paid $675 for it. It is fantastic. The 7800 dual pivot calipers can handle rain and fog quite well.
masi61 is offline  
Old 07-14-19, 06:38 PM
  #17  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,185
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1057 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 126 Times in 93 Posts
Originally Posted by datlas View Post
Of course the real question is do you really ďneedĒ to convert to disc brakes.

If you you want to, itís your choice how you do it but rim brakes are plenty viable on a road bike.

(ducks)
+1. What is real reason for the sudden need for disc brakes?
seypat is online now  
Old 07-14-19, 07:38 PM
  #18  
SCTinkering
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 43

Bikes: 2003 Airborne Valykire w 2014 Ultegra, , 2018 Trek FX-5S with Xt 1x drive train

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
I just swapped my fork to one that has a disc caliper mount and a disc front wheel. That's where you need the best braking power anyway. it would be nice to have it on the rear too, but not $1100 nice. The rest of my frame is in great shape so no reason to upgrade more than required.
SCTinkering is offline  
Likes For SCTinkering:
Old 07-14-19, 10:41 PM
  #19  
znomit
Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk
 
znomit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,800

Bikes: Giant Defy, Trek 1.7c, BMC GF02, Scott Sub 35

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Liked 54 Times in 27 Posts
I vote for getting a disc front fork and keeping the frame standard. The fredlyness of mixed brakes is well deserved, and you can rage on both sides of the disc vs rim threads at your leisure.
znomit is offline  
Likes For znomit:
Old 07-15-19, 04:30 AM
  #20  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 23,195
Mentioned: 172 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9061 Post(s)
Liked 686 Times in 424 Posts
It's only a LiteSpeed. No real loss.

(geese)
indyfabz is offline  
Likes For indyfabz:
Old 07-15-19, 05:33 AM
  #21  
downhillmaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 774
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 460 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 142 Times in 75 Posts
Arenít most or all disc brakes made in China?
downhillmaster is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 06:15 AM
  #22  
joesch
Senior Member
 
joesch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hotel CA / DFW
Posts: 454

Bikes: 83 Colnago Super, 86 Masi NS, 87 50th Daccordi, 87 Guerciotti, 96 Serotta Colorado TI, 95/05 Colnago C40/C50, 08 Lemond Filmore, 13 Cervelo R3

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Just N+1 and keep your LiteSpeed as is.
You may then realize its still a pretty nice ride.
For the upgrade costs you could get a very nice N+1 especially if your willing to get a NOS or used model.
joesch is offline  
Likes For joesch:
Old 07-15-19, 06:29 AM
  #23  
Gconan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 295

Bikes: Norco search xr

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked 30 Times in 11 Posts
I would buy a disc frame from Lynskey and transfer parts. Shoot, I forgot you would need wheels and brakes too. Added costs, my bad.

Last edited by Gconan; 07-15-19 at 06:38 AM.
Gconan is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 06:49 AM
  #24  
datlas 
Beyond Bogus
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 28,803

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 399 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8951 Post(s)
Liked 171 Times in 110 Posts
I would also suggest that if, for some reason, you are dead-set on disc brakes and want to stick with Ti, you should mosey on over to bikedirect.com, I believe they have options that are priced quite reasonably.

(ducks again)
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28 View Post
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 08:23 AM
  #25  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,534
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 240 Times in 161 Posts
Originally Posted by MyTi View Post
Ya they still run over a thousand more than a carbon offering. I want to stay in the $2k range with ultegra disc group and canít do that with Lynskey or litespeed. I think the extra grand might be worth it but canít justify spending more than 3k. Seeing a couple of shattered carbon frames in the TDF this year sure gives me pause though about going carbon. Carbon is inferior to Ti without a doubt.

Try riding your Ti bike into some road furniture, and tell us what happens.

noodle soup is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.