GuitarBob

'Serious' enthusiasts, like most of us I suspect, are not going to buy an eBike for regular road rides. The folks I see on them are a whole 'nuther species.

I wasn't sure what to think of them at first, but now I am occasionally entertained by them. A few weeks ago on one of my usual rides, I started up a climb, roughly 2 miles at 4%. No big deal, but enough to sweat if you give it the beans. Part way up, I saw an older couple on flat-bar bikes, so I thought 'eBikes, I'll see if I can catch them.'

I did, but it wasn't until near then top where it tilts up to 6%. As I approached the woman, who was 65 or 70, she looked back at me as I was starting to come around, then stood up on the pedals to race me to the top! Awesome -- and still makes me smile.

merlinextraligh

I just friggin don't get it.

If I'm going to add a motor, why would I limit myself to 20mph and a few hundred watts?

If I'm going motorized, it's going to be a Ducatti.

Go big or go home.

merlinextraligh

that story makes me frown, on multiple levels.

1) why would you sprint, with a motor, to compete with someone without a motor?

2) why wouldn't you simply ride slower at a pace you could maintain without a motor?

3) riding a bike with a motor is giving up. Once you give into the assist, you will only get weaker. The analogy is people who are challenged by walking and start using a wheelchair or scooter. They just get weaker and dependent on the assist

merlinextraligh

good to see Bike Forums history lives on

May R600 Dura Ace RIP

GuitarBob

Just for fun. This 70-yr old woman rode a bike up a big hill because that's what she wanted to do -- which I think is fabulous. And when this lycra-wearing roadie was busting his ass to come around her, she wanted to beat him to the top. I loved her spirit, frankly.

merlinextraligh

I have a 430hp Porsche. Pretty sure I'd take you on your bike without engaging sport mode.

My point is that it is not the same activity once we use motors.

The fastest person up the climb is totally going to be controlled by the motor and how its governed.

Pretty absurd to sprint with a motor versus someone without one.

By analogy, I'm confident in a Porsche 911, I can dust any one in a Prius. But it would be pathetic to have to demonstrate that.

TimothyH

Not everyone who uses an assist device does so because they lack willpower.

You can't will away osteoporosis, cartilage damage in the knees or a bad back. Some physical challenges are real.


-Tim-

merlinextraligh

i get that electronic assist may be a viable option for people with physical disabilities,

However, with gearing choices available on modern bikes, i suspect that the vast majority of people riding e bikes, even with physical limitations, could ride traditional bikes albeit slower.

FWIW, I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis at age 10. It hasn't kept me from racing at a decent level, being a Florida State Champiion, and standing on the podium at Nationals.

Pretty sure if I accepted assited devices for my disability none of that would have happened.

GuitarBob

Me without a motor and an older woman on an eBike with a 250w motor was a pretty fair fight, and that's the thing -- it made it fun for both of us. So far as cars, I get passed by them all the time and no one notices, much less has any productive fun with it.

It's one thing to have someone in your regular riding group show up with a motor (which won't happen), and another thing to allow folks who happen to need a motor to get to fun places and to have some fun with it.

I'm okay if we disagree on how to perceive the interaction I had -- I'm still happy about it.

merlinextraligh

And at a base level, I don't have an issue with people riding ebikes, or your take on it.

If that's how they choose to spend their free time, that's their choice.

I just find it to be a very different activity from what I consider riding a bike to be.

GuitarBob

That seems fair, as stuffing a motor in a bike changes what people can do with them, for sure. For those of us who consider the bike as an important part of our lives, we're bound to like some of those changes and dislike others.

jamesdak 

But I ride BECAUSE of cartilage damage in both knees!

Just yanking your chain of course, I get your premise. But riding really is what keeps my knees pain free. 4 surgeries and still bone on bone in my right knee. Motion is lotion.

trailangel

No, you are wrong. In many ways.
I might add, tandem riding is giving up... how about that comment?

merlinextraligh

And what are those ways? I gave a reasoned argument, ad you counter it with a simple negation.

To paraphrase Monty Python, an argument is more than a simple contradiction.

And can you show me anyone who's gone from riding a regular bike to an ebike that 1) gained fitness, and 2) went back to riding a road bike. Simple logic tells you that the ebike rider is getting less of a workout than on a non assisted bike. Otherwise, there would be no reason for the electrical assist.


As to riding a Tandem, how is that in anyway "giving up" I would contend that riding a tandem well takes more effort and skill than riding a single bike given the need for teamwork and coordination.

And as it relates to losing or maintaining fitness, I've been able to do almost all my training miles on a tandem, and still race successfully as a Cat 3. I seriously doubt anyone does almost all their training on an ebike and then races a regular bike.

colnago62

Far a bunch of reasons, motors are no longer allowed at my local velodrome. The officially sanctioned vehicle for motor pacing now is a Trek Super Commuter. The riders I have talked to hate it. It doesn’t accelerate fast enough, it’s top speed is governed and the draft isn’t that good

colnago62

My local Trek dealer believes this.

kingston 

My wife can't keep up with me on her single, so we ride a tandem sometimes to be able to ride together. I also considered ebikes to achieve the same thing since she doesn't really like the tandem, but it turns out most ebikes can't keep up with me either. If they have the speed they don't have the range or vice-versa. Just because I don't have a need for an ebike doesn't mean nobody does. There are plenty of things other people buy that I wouldn't. I drive a Prius, and you drive a Porche. What difference does it make? I don't think less or more of you because your car has a bigger motor, same as I don't think less or more of you because you are faster or slower than me on a bike. Anything's better than sitting on the couch watching tv.

Kimmo 

I can't help but think, especially with the way electric tech is coming along, that there has to be some sort of new sweet spot of power to weight... Obviously nothing as powerful as a full-on motorbike, but something modulated by crank power, a few times more powerful than what we're allowed, and yet light enough to still feel like a bike, would be frikken awesome.

What do some folks say? It doesn't get easier, you just go faster.

WhyFi

People do assisted exercises to gain strength all of the time - assisted pull-ups, for instance. Plus, perspective - you're looking at it from the POV of a seasoned cyclist, but if an ebike with assist allows someone with an otherwise sedentary lifestyle to get out there and raise their HR, awesome.

Not everyplace is as flat as FL. Even modest hills can limit the range and route possibilities for a lot of beginners. Besides, more fast is more fun and more fun is more motivation to get off your ass.

Kimmo 

I'd say that depends what you're watching...

TimothyH

Life doesn't work this way.


-Tim-

seypat

No Boss Hoss? That might be too much power.

https://bosshoss.com/

Digger Goreman

Absopositively nailed it! The second greatest disease in this country is "the cult of conveinence": to the extent you give in, you weaken and are controllable.... It is also at the root of why gasholes hate: we "un-groove" their conveinence and remind them of their "inconvenent" connection to humanity and environment.

A resurgence in bicycling MUST be derailed, or Americans might turn away from conveinence

One should havevto qualify for disabled status to ride an e-bike. Perhaps an age exemption....

merlinextraligh

I am looking at it from a cyclist's perspective. The thesis of this thread is that ebikes will relegate conventional road bikes to classic relics. I find that premise absurd. If the hills are too big, get lower gears and go slower.

If an ebike gets a sedentary person off the coach, that's fine for them. But that has very little relevance to road cycling by any conventional definition.

If the beach cruiser crowd, and a few road cyclists with physical limitations adopt ebikes, it certainly is not the death of pedal powered bikes.

WhyFi

Of course it is - that's why no one is taking that bait, except for you, I guess.

This doesn't always work. Some will have a w/kg threshold low enough that moving fast enough to keep balance can become an issue.



Obviously debatable because, well, we're debating it.

Of course. As has been established, the premise of the OP is a silly thing designed to get a rise out of the 41.