Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Roadies, not on board with assist - prepare to be C&V'd

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Roadies, not on board with assist - prepare to be C&V'd

Old 07-21-19, 06:45 PM
  #1  
Wildwood
Veteran, Pacifist
Thread Starter
 
Wildwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 11,191

Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?

Mentioned: 251 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2878 Post(s)
Liked 1,964 Times in 1,075 Posts
Roadies, not on board with assist - prepare to be C&V'd

The last few days, I've ridden a bunch of trails and roads regularly frequented by 'regular and light enthusiast' cyclists. At the rate of change I see, unassisted 9/10/11/12spd bikes for adults is the next niche of C&V.

Times a 'changing.
Progress devolves many things into relics.
Even when you want to stand tough.

Tour de France: Peter Sagan rides new Specialized e-bike on rest day ? Gallery | Cyclingnews.com
Wildwood is offline  
Likes For Wildwood:
Old 07-21-19, 08:25 PM
  #2  
Kimmo 
bike whisperer
 
Kimmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 9,430

Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1422 Post(s)
Liked 639 Times in 454 Posts
We should be advocating for a class of vehicles between bikes and motorbikes - unlimited e-bikes.

Imagine controlling serious power with your pedal stroke... Specialized Turbo on roids, anyone?
Kimmo is offline  
Old 07-21-19, 09:21 PM
  #3  
UniChris
Senior Member
 
UniChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 1,494

Bikes: 36" Unicycle

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 708 Post(s)
Liked 270 Times in 197 Posts
Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
We should be advocating for a class of vehicles between bikes and motorbikes - unlimited e-bikes.
They're already all over the place
UniChris is offline  
Old 07-21-19, 09:40 PM
  #4  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,888
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4672 Post(s)
Liked 1,808 Times in 978 Posts
if you have a problem with E-bikes, stay off the MUPs.
noodle soup is offline  
Likes For noodle soup:
Old 07-22-19, 05:14 AM
  #5  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,101

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 191 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4303 Post(s)
Liked 2,288 Times in 1,476 Posts
A couple of teams have touted the benefits of the e-assist road bikes in place of a Derny for training. Same tractable power characteristics as a Derny but in a conventional package, so any team member can pace the rest of the team to work on techniques and strategies.

I can see myself considering an e-assist road bike in 10 years if I want to keep up with the club rides. Just a little boost to keep up on climbs or close a gap so the rest of the group aren't waiting for me to lollygag around. It'd be fun to tag along on the A group rides and not be dropped within 5 miles or guilt-trip the younger guys/gals into thinking they need to wait for the old man at the top of every climb.

As long as it's still mostly pedaling, I see no problem.
canklecat is offline  
Likes For canklecat:
Old 07-22-19, 05:24 AM
  #6  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 31,423
Mentioned: 200 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13952 Post(s)
Liked 6,981 Times in 3,526 Posts
Finally a novel thread.
indyfabz is offline  
Likes For indyfabz:
Old 07-22-19, 06:53 AM
  #7  
shelbyfv 
Senior Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 9,391
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2674 Post(s)
Liked 3,084 Times in 1,617 Posts
Italics?? And maybe it won't take 7 pages before this goes to E-bikes.
shelbyfv is offline  
Old 07-22-19, 06:59 AM
  #8  
PepeM
Senior Member
 
PepeM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 6,861
Mentioned: 180 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2739 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 58 Posts
I'm scared of everything.
PepeM is offline  
Old 07-22-19, 07:21 AM
  #9  
Rides4Beer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: SC
Posts: 1,403

Bikes: SuperSix Evo | Revolt

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 705 Post(s)
Liked 761 Times in 394 Posts
What is C&V?

Haven't had an e-bike pass me yet, but come to think of it, I don't think I've seen one in the wild yet.
Rides4Beer is offline  
Old 07-22-19, 07:33 AM
  #10  
CAT7RDR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Hacienda Hgts
Posts: 1,334

Bikes: 1999 Schwinn Peloton Ultegra 10, Kestrel RT-1000 Ultegra, Trek Marlin 6 Deore 29'er

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 501 Post(s)
Liked 1,004 Times in 538 Posts
If finding a sense of accomplishment by achieving a cycling goal (under my own pedal power) relegates me to C&V - Count me in!!!

I've grown apathetic to e-motorbikes.
CAT7RDR is online now  
Likes For CAT7RDR:
Old 07-22-19, 07:48 AM
  #11  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,766

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1236 Post(s)
Liked 1,144 Times in 717 Posts
I had my piss and moan in the other forum topic already.

I'm down with some more! Bring on the hate.

Just like the sellers of hoverboards and electric scooters, they're responding to the demand after having an idea. Can't fault people in that. That's just smart and good business.

It's just in how society utilizes the toys and tools. They can be both. Both separately or both tool and toy in one. An amazing opportunity.

It can be a wonderful tool to a commuter, to lower vehicle emissions and reduce traffic, to keep medically vulnerable parts of the population physically active and participatory in social circles.

It can be a useful toy. Take that bike tour in the mountains you've wanted to. Allow a friend to keep up on a weekend ride with you to extend a riding friendship some more years.

It can also be an annoying and degenerative toy. It can be used like a motorcycle to race around MUP's over the speed limit while offering zero physical health benefit to the user. It can turn an active exercise group into a "me too" sightseeing tour offering little physical stress.

People going 8mph on a pedal bike on an MUP are already only expending perhaps 100 calories an hour for exercise. Hardly more than sitting still. Outside of a serious physio/heart patient, walking would be more conducive to health already. Then add an e-bike to that and it's nearly zero benefit.

So, a beneficial tool to a heart of physio patient........and a degenerative toy to an otherwise fully able-bodied individual.

An e-bike isn't so you can maintain your place in the faster group exercise rides, it's so you can show up to something or anything at all. Bless groups willing to mix e-bikes for social rides. That's a nice thing to do for a Sunday coffee shop ride. But not all group rides are coffee shop strolls. Some group rides are exercise based.

I don't think it'd be a good use of an e-bike for me to use it to show up to the local weeknight pro/1/2 group ride just because I've always wanted to meet some pros or because a friend of mine can ride in that group but I can't. It would be a good use of it if my friend has a training ride he's doing and I can join along and perhaps even enhance their training.

My opinions are harsh, but they're my own. I just want people to judiciously utilize the devices appropriately as tools and toys.
burnthesheep is offline  
Likes For burnthesheep:
Old 07-22-19, 07:55 AM
  #12  
MoAlpha
• —
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 8,848

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7181 Post(s)
Liked 3,593 Times in 1,953 Posts
Not to worry. The pedal drive system will become vestigial over time and eventually fall off, leaving a lightweight electric motorcycle.
MoAlpha is offline  
Old 07-22-19, 07:56 AM
  #13  
trailangel
Senior Member
 
trailangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 4,698

Bikes: Schwinn Varsity

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1809 Post(s)
Liked 588 Times in 346 Posts
I think it's the new $17,000 road ebike. That's too much money.
trailangel is offline  
Old 07-22-19, 08:00 AM
  #14  
TimothyH
- Soli Deo Gloria -
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 14,782

Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix

Mentioned: 235 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6837 Post(s)
Liked 702 Times in 447 Posts
Millions of people ride e-bikes every day.

A pro rides and e-bike and it is news.

Someone pass the cream and sugar.


-Tim-
TimothyH is offline  
Old 07-22-19, 08:10 AM
  #15  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 35,957

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 347 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17776 Post(s)
Liked 6,450 Times in 3,302 Posts
Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
It can be used like a motorcycle to race around MUP's over the speed limit while offering zero physical health benefit to the user.
One of my concerns with regards to this is the unearned speed thing. Not in the sense that they don't deserve to go that fast, but in that it didn't take them time to get that fit to go that fast; that time usually provides some learning experience - a bit a bike handling and common sense/courtesy in the process. I've already seen some ebike buffoonery and I suspect that it'll get worse. But, as noodle soup says, I generally avoid the MUPs.

That said, I think that the applications are pretty cool. I saw a mom out yesterday on something like a pedal assist Big Dummy - her daughter was riding in the rack and they had some panniers for groceries and whatnot. I'd *love* to see more of that as opposed to the 4,000lb SUV status quo.
WhyFi is online now  
Old 07-22-19, 08:18 AM
  #16  
trailangel
Senior Member
 
trailangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 4,698

Bikes: Schwinn Varsity

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1809 Post(s)
Liked 588 Times in 346 Posts
Yes.... WHYFI....Unearned speed......
I think this is major concern with ebikes.... not that people don't like or want them, but all of a sudden less experienced riders are going faster than their skillset.
trailangel is offline  
Likes For trailangel:
Old 07-22-19, 08:23 AM
  #17  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,388

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2748 Post(s)
Liked 2,501 Times in 1,159 Posts
This is exactly the issue I’ve seen with ebike riders on the local trail. Not knowing how to handle a bike at 27.
caloso is online now  
Likes For caloso:
Old 07-22-19, 08:32 AM
  #18  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 35,957

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 347 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17776 Post(s)
Liked 6,450 Times in 3,302 Posts
Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Not knowing how to handle a bike at 27.
27? Woof. I have a feeling that many ebike makers aren't putting in too much effort to lock down the max speed dictated by jurisdiction. "Yes, Mr Customer, the assist tops out at 20 mph and we really discourage people from cracking that with the easy-to-follow-instructions found at theneeedforebikespeed.com *wink-wink*"
WhyFi is online now  
Old 07-22-19, 08:41 AM
  #19  
nomadmax 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,872
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 838 Post(s)
Liked 1,134 Times in 569 Posts
I'll buy an E-road bike, no doubt in my mind. It's hilly where I live so that means I can only ride three days a week and get proper recovery. However, I can't see myself taking it to one of the group rides I frequent. For me and the folks I ride with the whole idea is to beat on each other to get fitter, an e-bike isn't going to help do that. But, by myself on a recovery day or a commute where I don't want to arrive drenched in sweat or tapped out, absolutely.

All of that said, I won't pay more than 6K; it'll have to be a mid drive that has no resistance when the motor isn't engaged (but for the weight). I see this as something that will become a big part of bicycle sales overall and if it gets someone out there, all the better. Right now we have thousands of men and women that have injuries from serving our country that preclude them from cycling on an "analog" bike. An e-bike could provide them a chance to cycle again or start for the first time. Especially for that reason, I say bring the technology on.

Last edited by nomadmax; 07-23-19 at 03:18 AM.
nomadmax is offline  
Likes For nomadmax:
Old 07-22-19, 09:03 AM
  #20  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,888
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4672 Post(s)
Liked 1,808 Times in 978 Posts
Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
I think it's the new $17,000 road ebike. That's too much money.
Trek's Domane+ is $7000 and will go 28mph.

FTR, it's an absolute blast to ride.
noodle soup is offline  
Old 07-22-19, 09:07 AM
  #21  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 31,423
Mentioned: 200 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13952 Post(s)
Liked 6,981 Times in 3,526 Posts
Ask yourself one question: WWJVD?
indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-22-19, 09:28 AM
  #22  
Wildwood
Veteran, Pacifist
Thread Starter
 
Wildwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 11,191

Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?

Mentioned: 251 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2878 Post(s)
Liked 1,964 Times in 1,075 Posts
A few people misunderstand my initial post.

I'm neither pro or anti e-bike.
I will ride both MUTs or roads, given my preference and destination.

I merely think that e-bikes are growing rapidly and in all categories of our sport - commuter, mtb, roadie, casual pedaler, etc. Within a short time-span unassisted adult bikes may be a small fraction of the total adult bikes sold.

Personally, the availability of used parts for high-end unassisted bikes, in a market dominated by assist bikes is attractive.
Perhaps unassisted bikes will be considered clunkers - and at the current rate of conversion -- maybe, next year. The snob appeal is creeping in fast.

E-bikes are for racers, too. Right Peter?
Wildwood is offline  
Old 07-22-19, 09:31 AM
  #23  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,888
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4672 Post(s)
Liked 1,808 Times in 978 Posts
Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post

I merely think that e-bikes are growing rapidly and in all categories of our sport - commuter, mtb, roadie, casual pedaler, etc. Within a short time-span unassisted adult bikes may be a small fraction of the total adult bikes sold.
I think that's quite a stretch.
noodle soup is offline  
Old 07-22-19, 09:32 AM
  #24  
UniChris
Senior Member
 
UniChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 1,494

Bikes: 36" Unicycle

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 708 Post(s)
Liked 270 Times in 197 Posts
Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
Within a short time-span unassisted adult bikes may be a small fraction of the total adult bikes sold.
Ugh, I wonder if then instead of seeing disadvantaged folks on those big-box MTB's with the silly suspension fork bouncing with every pedal revolution, we'll see them huffing and puffing to move formerly assist bikes with the batteries long gone.
UniChris is offline  
Likes For UniChris:
Old 07-22-19, 09:36 AM
  #25  
Wildwood
Veteran, Pacifist
Thread Starter
 
Wildwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 11,191

Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?

Mentioned: 251 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2878 Post(s)
Liked 1,964 Times in 1,075 Posts
Originally Posted by CAT7RDR View Post
If finding a sense of accomplishment by achieving a cycling goal (under my own pedal power) PROMOTES me to C&V - Count me in!!!

I've grown apathetic to e-motorbikes.

Fixed it for you.
Wildwood is offline  
Likes For Wildwood:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.