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Torelli Stainless Columbus Frame - $4k

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Torelli Stainless Columbus Frame - $4k

Old 08-05-19, 08:58 PM
  #26  
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I'd rather get a good old Colnago/De Rosa/Pinarello frame for a fraction of that price.
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Old 08-05-19, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman
Are you saying you would PREFER the bikes be made somewhere with inferior manufacturing infrastructure? I've never understood the anti Chinese production thing.
I have nothing against Chinese frames but it just rubs me the wrong way to pay an absolute premium for a product that you know is being manufactured at a tiny fraction of the cost.
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Old 08-06-19, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv
I don't understand the attraction of stainless for a bike frame. For the price, you could have Ti. It's not like regular steel frames are rapidly rusting away. Is there some ride quality beyond regular steel?
I agree this price is too high, surprising for Torelli. If it was Mondonico branded I would not be surprised, but I still wouldn't go for it. I have two Mondonicos but I bought them from private parties. I don't know who actually makes this XCR, but I'm sure it's not Mondonico since they closed. I would put Mondonico up there with DeRosa and Cinelli, but the Mondos up to the end of production 2005 were shop-made by Antonio Mondonico, and Cinelli and DeRosa today are ... what? Chinese carbon factory? I expect stainless tubing to be more $$ than other tubesets, but this seems over the top. Still, I'd probably go for a good used one.

Regular steel frames are painted, to protect the steel tubes against rusting away. Have your favorite steel bike sandblasted clean and buy a painted duplicate. Lock them up by the ocean to see how this works. Stainless resists rust corrosion without the added weight of a paint job. Admittedly, so does Ti.

It's the design of the tubeset - very thin walls, rather large diameter with butting profiles that are specific to each tube. It's supposed to be very supple, very responsive, and a good ride. I have a Mondonico in ELOS, one of Columbus' earliest thinwall oversize tubesets. If you read here a lot you might know that ELOS is thought to ride a step up from standard Columbus SL (as well, some say it doesn't matter). I have a Mondo in "plain Columbus" and one in ELOS, and the ELOS is certainly better IMHO. XCR is a more developed frame on that theme, thinner walls and larger diameter. So while it's lighter than an ELOS, it should be a better ride and performer than ELOS. The tubeset design is around 10 years old, but I expect these frames are near state of the art for lightweight steel, comparable to Reynolds 953 or the discontinued TrueTemper S3. The data panel says 1690 grams for a 56 cm frame. I think that's pretty light. The stainless alloy has the strength to withstand the dings and dents of riding while still having super thin walls.

The geo chart seems to match the old Mondonico geo, which Torelli used to import when "Chairman Bill" owned the company. Torelli also imported a lot of frames from other builders who were rarely specified. But one thing they usually did was to match the Mondonico geometries. This is obvious if you can find a Torelli catalog from 1981 through 2005, with all levels of road frame having the same geometry at least in the earlier years. It's not the way the product line-up works today, after checking one of the other road frames.

I think the chart they show was incompletely re-arranged. I checked one of the other ones, and I think it works like this:

The sizes should actually read looking down the first column. First column of numbers should be head tube angle, second is seat tube angle, third is seat tube length, fourth is head tube length, fifth is chainstay length, sixth is BB drop, seventh is fork offset (aka rake). The sizes should be labelled running down the left with 51 at the top. I don't think they are giving geo data for 48, 49, and greater than 54 for this frame model, and they don't give data for wheelbase, front center, stack, or reach.

Last edited by Road Fan; 08-06-19 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 08-10-19, 04:35 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
Stainless steel is real.
Real cheap as a building material.
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Old 08-10-19, 04:58 PM
  #30  
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I really like the look of the shift cable stops. Neat look- dont see it elsewhere, really.

Decently light for the size.

Absurdly expensive.

Terrible geometry chart. Complete wtf.
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Old 08-10-19, 04:59 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
That's a lot of money for a very heavy frame. If something about it is compelling to you than it's worth it, but for me no way.
What would you expect it to weigh?...its pretty light for the stated size compared to other steel production frames(even including smaller brands).
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Old 08-10-19, 05:05 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Gconan
But for those really interested in stainless steel WARAKIN FRAMESET
That frame is a full 1 pound heavier than the torelli. Pretty significant.

It is a neat frame though and one I considered for a good bit, but the largest size stack&reach just weren't big enough.
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Old 08-10-19, 11:05 PM
  #33  
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Yes its a WTF, but you can interpret it in light of the other road frame specs on Torelli.
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Old 08-12-19, 08:15 AM
  #34  
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If I had to guess...

If I had to guess, Id say that stainless steel Torelli is made by Cicli Barco. I have one made by them and the fittings look very similar: removable cable stops on the downtube, the boss for the front derailleur made by Thecno Italy, rear derailleur hanger (also used on the older version of the Cinelli XCr, which Barco also made, I believe.)

I also have similar little Scudetto on the top tube.
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Old 08-12-19, 11:18 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
What would you expect it to weigh?...its pretty light for the stated size compared to other steel production frames(even including smaller brands).
I think everyone would generally prefer things be as light as possible, but everyone is willing to carry extra weight in some cases for things that are important to them. (I splurged 300 grams to have hydraulic disc brakes instead of calipers.) For me personally, having a steel frame isn't worth extra weight.
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Old 03-11-20, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Laifer69
If I had to guess, I’d say that stainless steel Torelli is made by Cicli Barco. I have one made by them and the fittings look very similar: removable cable stops on the downtube, the boss for the front derailleur made by Thecno Italy, rear derailleur hanger (also used on the older version of the Cinelli XCr, which Barco also made, I believe.)

I also have similar little Scudetto on the top tube.
I disagree. Barco does not make such clumsy looking welding and the seatpost clamp is not Barco.

On second glance, I think it may be made by Barco. The seat post clamp threw me off. But the rest could be. They make XCr frames for so many bike companies. But you can get a far better frame for much less by dealing with Barco directly. I have one in customs now from them.

The discussions about weight between carbon and stainless are silly. Of course carbon is lighter. But the ride is different, also the aesthetics which is important to me. But mostly the XCr frame will last a lifetime or two. The carbon frame is disposable. So if you plan on keeping a bike for a long time, get steel. If you are attracted to the current fad or latest gizmo, get carbon because in 5 years you will want something else.

Last edited by Johnk3; 03-12-20 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 03-12-20, 03:11 AM
  #37  
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If you are in that price range, get a Moots Ti frame
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Old 03-12-20, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
That's a lot of money for a very heavy frame. If something about it is compelling to you than it's worth it, but for me no way.
I don't know my frame weights but 3.7 lbs is heavy?? Torelli quotes that weight for a 58cm frame. I just brought home an old 63cm Sekine frame @ 6.5 lbs, so that thing must be a real heavyweight by comparison.
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Old 03-12-20, 07:50 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by prairiepedaler
I don't know my frame weights but 3.7 lbs is heavy?? Torelli quotes that weight for a 58cm frame. I just brought home an old 63cm Sekine frame @ 6.5 lbs, so that thing must be a real heavyweight by comparison.
Yes, that is 900-1100 grams heavier than a quality 63cm frame.
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Old 03-12-20, 08:45 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by prairiepedaler
I don't know my frame weights but 3.7 lbs is heavy?? Torelli quotes that weight for a 58cm frame. I just brought home an old 63cm Sekine frame @ 6.5 lbs, so that thing must be a real heavyweight by comparison.
My Giant TCR Advanced SL Disc frame weighs 2.96 pounds. BUT, that weight includes frame, fork, and seatpost.

The frame (with ISP) on its own is 1.85 pounds.

I'm not sure if carbon fiber is true stainless, but I've never seen a rusty one
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Old 03-12-20, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Cypress
My Giant TCR Advanced SL Disc frame weighs 2.96 pounds. BUT, that weight includes frame, fork, and seatpost.

The frame (with ISP) on its own is 1.85 pounds.

I'm not sure if carbon fiber is true stainless, but I've never seen a rusty one
But you won't see your Giant at all in 10 years because most likely it will not exist. The XCr will be around and ridden in 50 or 100 years.
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Old 03-12-20, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnk3
But you won't see your Giant at all in 10 years because most likely it will not exist. The XCr will be around and ridden in 50 or 100 years.
I sincerely hope this post was satirical and I just didn't pick up on the tone.
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Old 03-12-20, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Cypress
I sincerely hope this post was satirical and I just didn't pick up on the tone.
You know how retrogrouches are. Remember a few years ago we had lots of anti-carbon threads warning of assplosions?

Clearly, your bike will turn to dust in short order.
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Old 03-12-20, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by prairiepedaler
I don't know my frame weights but 3.7 lbs is heavy?? Torelli quotes that weight for a 58cm frame. I just brought home an old 63cm Sekine frame @ 6.5 lbs, so that thing must be a real heavyweight by comparison.
​​​​​​My gravel frame is 1.7 pounds. 2 extra pounds for the same thing is heavy in my book. It's not like I'm saying you're not allowed to have one, but the OP asked for an opinion and mine is that spending a lot on a lot of unnecessary weight isn't appealing.
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Old 03-12-20, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnk3
But you won't see your Giant at all in 10 years because most likely it will not exist. The XCr will be around and ridden in 50 or 100 years.
My commuter bike is a 2003 full CF frameset. I hope the frameset still exists when I get out of work. Id hate to have to carry all those components home.
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Old 03-12-20, 03:20 PM
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I had forgotten Ashton had been injured, but here is a video with him and a couple others.
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Old 03-12-20, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
My commuter bike is a 2003 full CF frameset. I hope the frameset still exists when I get out of work. Id hate to have to carry all those components home.
I hope my carbon fiber mountain bike still exists this weekend, I might want to ride it over some bumps this weekend.
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Old 04-15-20, 04:34 PM
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My new custom Cicli Barco XCR custom with brushed stainless steel, a Barco Viva stainless fork with a carbon steering tube, Campy Super Record 12 sp. and WR Compositi carbon parts. HED Belgium wheels and White Industries T11 hubs and Vittoria Corsa Control tires. If you look closely you will note the Campy direct mount brakes, lighter and far more beautiful than discs, but better working than regular rim brakes.

Gianluca Barco (info@ciclibarco.it)is quite fluent in English and very responsive and helpful in the design, fitting, options and production. They have a huge number of choices and options in both TIG and lugged stainless steel with stainless forks and lugs of all types. He works carefully with you on measurements. He also got me a good price on many of the carbon and Campy parts.


My custom frame cost 3,320 Euros ( $3,600) including shipping. But, it has a lot of options like name plate, Italian shield, nickel head badge, direct mount brakes, multi-color paint, the Viva fork, the carbon steering tube and Chris King headset. The base price for a XCr TIG welded frame with a curved stainless fork is 2,620 Euros ($2,900) including brushed or polished finish, one paint color, interior or exterior brake cables, and a number of other no-cost options. A stainless steel XCr lugged frame is 100 Euros more.

The bike weighs 18 lbs. 14 oz. with pedals for a size 58.5 frame. It rides very smoothly and feels alive. Also the production quality and paint is flawless. Cicli Barco won the "Best of Italy" and other awards last year at Bespoked, the British version of NAHBS. https://bespoked.cc/awards.html.

For an independent review of the Barco XCr frame look at this: https://www.cyclist.co.uk/reviews/66...rco-xcr-review

And, most importantly, Barco makes handmade steel frames for about 20 other Italian bike companies to put their own name on. The odds are extremely high that any brand name Italian steel frame is probably made by Barco, although not to the quality control levels of bikes with their own name on it. Of course, there is a huge mark up by the other bike company. The Cinelli XCr stainless frame is made by Barco but has none of the options and quality finish that mine has but it costs $4,800.

Just so you know, XCr refers to Columbus XCr stainless steel tubing. It is a relatively new product, only about 10 years old, that features very high-tech metallurgy and is triple butted. The tubes are almost paper thin but quite strong. It also happens to be the most expensive tube set in the world, currently over $800 just for the raw tubes.

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Old 09-10-20, 12:57 PM
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IDK if this still matters....but I had a superstrada frame custom built and painted with ultegra and rolf prima wheels for under 4K. I just felt better on a steel bike and this one allowed me to be a bit more upright. I had my old Torelli for 20 years and got choice fatigue looking at all the frames and choices. The company was easy to work with and I like the new ride. A real good carbon is three times the price and if you scratch it, its bad news. Aluminum was out. Titanium felt similar to steel, but twice as much for about 1/2 lb of weight savings, which is not important to me. I wanted strength, comfort, and a nice looking custom build. Hit a ton of potholes in Pittsburgh and so far all is well. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 09-10-20, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnk3
My new custom Cicli Barco XCR custom with brushed stainless steel, a Barco Viva stainless fork with a carbon steering tube, Campy Super Record 12 sp. and WR Compositi carbon parts. HED Belgium wheels and White Industries T11 hubs and Vittoria Corsa Control tires. If you look closely you will note the Campy direct mount brakes, lighter and far more beautiful than discs, but better working than regular rim brakes.

Gianluca Barco (info@ciclibarco.it)is quite fluent in English and very responsive and helpful in the design, fitting, options and production. They have a huge number of choices and options in both TIG and lugged stainless steel with stainless forks and lugs of all types. He works carefully with you on measurements. He also got me a good price on many of the carbon and Campy parts.


My custom frame cost 3,320 Euros ( $3,600) including shipping. But, it has a lot of options like name plate, Italian shield, nickel head badge, direct mount brakes, multi-color paint, the Viva fork, the carbon steering tube and Chris King headset. The base price for a XCr TIG welded frame with a curved stainless fork is 2,620 Euros ($2,900) including brushed or polished finish, one paint color, interior or exterior brake cables, and a number of other no-cost options. A stainless steel XCr lugged frame is 100 Euros more.

The bike weighs 18 lbs. 14 oz. with pedals for a size 58.5 frame. It rides very smoothly and feels alive. Also the production quality and paint is flawless. Cicli Barco won the "Best of Italy" and other awards last year at Bespoked, the British version of NAHBS. https://bespoked.cc/awards.html.

For an independent review of the Barco XCr frame look at this: https://www.cyclist.co.uk/reviews/66...rco-xcr-review

And, most importantly, Barco makes handmade steel frames for about 20 other Italian bike companies to put their own name on. The odds are extremely high that any brand name Italian steel frame is probably made by Barco, although not to the quality control levels of bikes with their own name on it. Of course, there is a huge mark up by the other bike company. The Cinelli XCr stainless frame is made by Barco but has none of the options and quality finish that mine has but it costs $4,800.

Just so you know, XCr refers to Columbus XCr stainless steel tubing. It is a relatively new product, only about 10 years old, that features very high-tech metallurgy and is triple butted. The tubes are almost paper thin but quite strong. It also happens to be the most expensive tube set in the world, currently over $800 just for the raw tubes.

The "like" button feels laughably inadequate to express the proper level of admiration for that post and picture.
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