indyfabz

A dog is a different story. A lot more saliva involved. A cat licking you feels a bit like fine sandpaper.

WhyFi

Oh, I know. One of my cats, one that was born in our bathtub and is pretty attached to me, likes to bathe/groom me on occasion. Feeling that tongue scraping across your temple will wake you up pretty quick.

Seattle Forrest

The stuff we put up with for our fur babies!

Parsley has always been fascinated by static electricity, in an old apartment then we had carpeting and I had medal SPDs, she would walk across the river a few times on cold, dry days, and then touch her nose to the pedal. She'd always hesitate for a second before touching it, knowing what was coming.

MoAlpha

Dang!

DaveLeeNC

The 90 minute ride has nothing to do with anything other than to establish a rate of perspiration. My conclusion was that for me for longer rides, this was a problem. It also might be a problem with a solution - we'll see.

dave

noodle soup

Drink lots of Brawndo.

MSchott

I have to agree with downhillmaster. I find the experiment odd. It’s potentially dangerous to ride 90 minutes in hot humid conditions without hydrating. Personally I’d drink 40-60 oz of water combined with electrolyte in such a ride.

In general there’s no reason for you to worry. Always carry plenty of liquid or refill as needed. Remember that on a ride don’t wait until you are thirsty to drink.

StephenH

What I do:
Wear 100 oz Camelbak with ice and water (two or three or four of us get a bag of ice at stops and split it up, is how that works).
Take two 24 oz bottles, one with ice and water, one usually with ice and diet Mountain Dew or other drink of your choice.
That's good for around 30 miles between stops.
Eat normal food during the ride.
If I start feeling like I'm GOING to cramp (but hopefully before it happens), I'll drink some Gatorade or gobble some Endurolytes. But I can go through a good bit of hot weather without either a lot of times.
Some people put Nuun tablets in their Camelbak, whatever.
The single biggest issue for me to avoid cramps and other heat issues is to keep my weight down. That works better than any combination of electrolytes I've found.
Also, be aware that you're comparing apples to oranges in some of this. It can be 75 degrees and 100% humidity and I'll just sweat like the dickens. Then if it's a 100 degrees and 40% humidity, hey, no problem! Wichita Falls gets plenty hot, but tends to be drier, so folks riding there MIGHT just have it a good bit easier than you do. Also, the three times I rode up there, it was actually late enough in the summer that it was past the peak heat already. So it was rougher riding through July than HH100.

MoAlpha

Cramps have nothing to do with heat, hydration, or electrolytes. They are an effect of overuse on muscles or, possibly, their nerve supply.

canklecat

Thanks for the tip, I just put it on my Amazon list. I'm satisfied with DripDrop but I'm game to try something else to see if it's as good and more cost effective. DripDrop, like NUUN and others, is pricey. I usually wait until Walgreens discounts it (usually beginning of every month) and stock up.

canklecat

Yeah, it's tricky. Studies and anecdotes (what's the joke about anecdotes? The plural of anecdote is data?) are all over the map. At least one studies theorizes it may be related to the vagus nerve reaction some of us experience. I've had weird vasovagal nerve reactions for years, worse since my neck was broken in 2001. So sometimes my sudden muscle spasms are unrelated to anything I've been doing or not doing.

Boxer Manny Pacquiao has often suffered from muscle spasms, especially in his legs. He's among the richest and most influential athletes in history. If anyone could afford to find a definitive cause and solution he'd have done it. But he still struggles with it.

So most of us mere mortals will just need to experiment and figure out what seems to work. I've been trying magnesium lactate and it seems to help. But who knows for certain.

MoAlpha

I'd very much like to read that study, if you can find it again.

DaveLeeNC

Regarding the potentially dangerous part, after you have done this a hundred or more times without a problem, you tend to reduce your worry level a good bit :-) I have never bothered with hydration on rides up to about 100 minutes.

Regarding the 'no reason to worry' comment, there is no reason to worry IF your water absorption rate is somewhere in the vicinity of your sweat rate. Otherwise it at least should not be ignored. And 90 ounces of water per hour is a lot to absorb (which is not the same as swallow).

dave

canklecat

Regarding electrolytes, I'm satisfied with DripDrop. Comes in single serving Mylar pouches, which I find easier to handle on bike rides. The pouches are sweat-proof, fit anywhere -- even the stingiest seat bag like my Lezyne Road Caddy, a jersey pocket, even a sock. But I wear ankle socks so I can't stash anything but feet in there. I'll sometimes tuck Mylar pouches of DripDrop and Clif gels in my shorts, which is also where I stash the empties.

There's nothing arcane or magical in DripDrop, just the same stuff as other electrolytes. But they seem to have nailed the right balance of salts and sugars for rapid absorption. And the flavor and sweetness are mild and inoffensive. Most electrolyte mixes and premixed liquids taste kinda foul to me -- a little bitter, cloyingly sweet, with some nasty aftertaste. Probably varies according to taste buds.

But DripDrop just plain works. I've used it twice for rescue hydration this summer with strangers along rides who were suffering from heat exhaustion. One passed out an vomited as I was preparing the drink -- fortunately her friends caught her and eased her down and turned her head so she didn't aspirate. In both cases the DripDrop solution revived them within 10-15 minutes and they were actually able to resume riding or at least walking to a car to be picked up by family or friends.

In the case of the woman who fainted and vomited, after she revived we chatted a bit and I asked about what she drank. She'd just switched from one brand of electrolytes to another, and also took a salt pill that day. The electrolyte switch probably didn't do any harm, but too much salt alone can defeat the purpose. That's probably what made her vomit, and it was just clear liquid.

Anyway, try some DripDrop. It's easier to tote than NUUN tablets (those always got sticky after opening). Costs about the same as NUUN. I always carry some spares for just such emergencies.

Propel also comes in single serving Mylar packets. I use it for premixed water bottles. But it has that annoying bitter, cloying flavor that I dislike. I use it myself but I wouldn't give it to someone else if I had DripDrop available. The flavor alone might make someone gag if they're already feeling heat sick.

canklecat

Will do. I want to be sure I read it correctly. I think I found it a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately I was using Firefox, which I have set to privacy mode by default, so it deletes my history, etc., whenever I finish a browser session.

If I'm recalling correctly it also theorized that pickle juice may work, but not for the reasons attributed to it. People who claim miraculous results from pickle juice say it works almost immediately. That would seem to exclude electrolyte balance as a factor. So that shoots down my theory that it's just the brine and vinegar. So the theory seems to be it has some effect on the nervous system.

But I may be conflating two or more different studies. So I'll try to backtrack and bookmark those studies if I can find 'em again.

canklecat

Cats are weird. My adopted dumpster tabby cat gets really assertive about my hands. If I'm sweaty or have used bleach cleansers she'll pin down my hand and lick it ferociously until she's satisfied the cooties are gone. And she hasn't been declawed so I don't get much choice. If I try to pull away she'll give me the stink eye and unsheath her finger knives until I cooperate. I may change her name to Freddy Kreuger.

MoAlpha

No problem; just professional interest. I took a very quick look at Pubmed and all I saw of potential relevance was a case report of a guy whose vagal nerve stimulator was causing spasm in a nearby neck muscle, due to some sort of electrical spillover.

canklecat

Come to think of it, I think it may have been one of your posts in a previous similar discussion that launched me down that particular rabbit hole. I seem to recall a link to one study that referenced another study on the vagus nerve theory. And I got lazy, forgetting I wasn't using Chrome and auto-saving the browser history.

Doge

The water bottle pours over a good airy jersey does what sweating does. The girls on the soccer bench would do pour overs. They don't sweat as well as the boys and this was a good way to balance it.
I expect the material matters a lot. I always thought wool was great, but modern fabrics are mostly made to not hold water.

seypat

Since this is the hydration thread:

If you use the Saltsticks brand, Cycling - SaltStick Electrolytes & Dispensers
this brand works as well for me and is cheaper. The Best Electrolyte Replacement and Muscle Recovery Supplements for Runners - Elite Sportz Equipment

The Sea salt packets that Wendys used to have contained potassium, magnesium, etc. as well. That is a cheap alternative. I haven't checked in a while.

While I'm at it, if you use this for the manparts fricton control, https://www.bodyglide.com/
this is cheaper and I can tell no difference. Sold at Walmart. https://www.goldbond.com/blog/product/friction-defense/

Abe_Froman

I don't think that is exactly correct. My understanding is nobody quite knows exactly what causes cramps. Heat, hydration, and electrolytes are about as possible an explanation as a million other things...

seypat

Most of the fitness gyms have saltwater in their pools now. Come home from doing laps in one of those and you have to hide from the cats. It's a licking frenzy.

WhyFi

A saltwater pool is a running joke in Season 2 of Trail & Error (really fun show - a pity it was canceled after two seasons). At this point, I don't think that I could swim in one without thinking of... that.

Carbonfiberboy 

Heat training. Go out in the hottest part of the day, every time. There's a silly thread on BF somewhere about ride early, beat the heat. Heat training is the best training you can do, even for when it's cool. But that's what one does. One has to acclimate to heat, just like acclimating to altitude. That's a good simile. Your body changes. We're very, very adaptable creatures. Drink plenty while you're out, it's not torture, just get your body to practice doing the right thing. And look up "heat shock proteins." You can also sauna 5 days/week and get a similar effect. That's the Finnish secret.

MoAlpha

It’s hard to prove a null hypothesis, but many studies have looked for evidence of causative electrolyte shifts and dehydration in cramping athletes and none, to my knowledge, has found either. There is, however, evidence that fatigue produces changes in the activity of the spinal feedback loops which regulate muscle length and tension and that these may be involved in cramping.