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Hydration Practices and Techniques

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Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

Hydration Practices and Techniques

Old 08-15-19, 06:35 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha
Another problem with estimates of maximal water absorption rate is that hydration status has a big influence on it. A number from a study in well hydrated individuals is irrelevant.

Let me also say that caffeine is a weak diuretic, which loses its effect in the face of even mild dehydration. I once had to sit through a few hours of caffeine talk from people at the Armyís Soldier Systems Center in Natick, MA. They field trialed the hell out of it in elite operators doing terrible things for days on end and it increased performance with no effect on hydration.
Yep, I usually go through 4 mugs of coffee on a weekend morning then top off with a 12 oz glass of water before my long rides. Not dehydrated at all.
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Old 08-15-19, 07:24 AM
  #77  
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Around here, we donít get peak hot weather without terrible air quality. I donít mess with it.
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Old 08-15-19, 01:49 PM
  #78  
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There's a Finnish sauna study, IIRC centered around CVD, which found that one had to sauna 5 days a week to get the benefit. Those who only sauna 1-2 times/week didn't get the benefit. Might be the same for us. Benefit was lower CVD risk but I don't remember the mechanism.
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Old 08-15-19, 01:53 PM
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This is anecdotal at best kind of 'data'.

But after a handful of days being more mindful of hydration and actually practicing some reasonable hydration actions on my medium length rides (call it 2'ish hours), I get a sense of something that had not occurred to me before.

First it is clear that starting your hydration with slow sipping very early in a ride, yields (for me) a real limitation in water processing. Anything more than a single water bottle (24 oz in my case) gets relatively uncomfortable. But it seems that once your body has decided that 'dehydration is on the way', things kind of open up and I can start processing a whole lot more water per hour than that single bottle.

At least that is my sense of things at this point. If that is true then that pretty much resolves my concern.

dave
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Old 08-15-19, 02:10 PM
  #80  
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Your hydration needs to be starting 1 or 2 days before. If you have a big ride planned this weekend, you should be ramping up the water intake starting today. I have a 14 mile run on Saturday morning. I will increase my water intake starting this evening through Saturday morning.
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Old 08-15-19, 02:14 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC
This is anecdotal at best kind of 'data'.

But after a handful of days being more mindful of hydration and actually practicing some reasonable hydration actions on my medium length rides (call it 2'ish hours), I get a sense of something that had not occurred to me before.

First it is clear that starting your hydration with slow sipping very early in a ride, yields (for me) a real limitation in water processing. Anything more than a single water bottle (24 oz in my case) gets relatively uncomfortable. But it seems that once your body has decided that 'dehydration is on the way', things kind of open up and I can start processing a whole lot more water per hour than that single bottle.

At least that is my sense of things at this point. If that is true then that pretty much resolves my concern.

dave
This is exactly why I start drinking well in advance of a long ride.

I should be hydrating and peeing a clear stream as the beginning of the ride approaches.

All those people on line for the porta-potty before a century are onto something


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Old 08-15-19, 02:16 PM
  #82  
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In the summer, I will use a Camelbak with 70 ounces of chilled water plus two 25 oz thermos bottles one with Cytomax and one with whey protein mix. This was sufficient for a 55 mile 6K climb ride over 5 hours in 80 to 95 degree temps yesterday.

Some roadies c/o a Camelbak being uncomfortable but I think constantly sipping water trumps that assertion. After all, I am riding for recreation not racing.
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Old 08-15-19, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by seypat
Your hydration needs to be starting 1 or 2 days before. If you have a big ride planned this weekend, you should be ramping up the water intake starting today. I have a 14 mile run on Saturday morning. I will increase my water intake starting this evening through Saturday morning.
One 'problem' that I have is that my prostate is the same age that I am. There are some things that simply are not happening

Dave

Ps. I would need some serious convincing b4 accepting that what I drink on Thursday has much of an effect on hydration on Saturday.
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Old 08-15-19, 03:09 PM
  #84  
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If I drink too much water on Thursday (by getting dehydrated in the morning and then overcompensating in response to endless thirst) I'll still be peeing too much on Saturday.
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Old 08-15-19, 03:17 PM
  #85  
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When it comes to riding in the "heat" all I can say is personally as I aged past 60 from there on my tolerance to heat while exercising began to significantly decrease. I'm 73 now and I have to really lower my efforts on longer climbs as the temperature rises.
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Old 08-15-19, 03:33 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC
One 'problem' that I have is that my prostate is the same age that I am. There are some things that simply are not happening

Dave

Ps. I would need some serious convincing b4 accepting that what I drink on Thursday has much of an effect on hydration on Saturday.
The advantage of early hydration is that transfer of water from the vascular space into cells and the interstitial space takes time and the “charging curve” is a logarithmic function, which begins to asymptote as the osmotic gradient driving water redistribution decreases.

Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
If I drink too much water on Thursday (by getting dehydrated in the morning and then overcompensating in response to endless thirst) I'll still be peeing too much on Saturday.
I have often wondered about this phenomenon, which I get too, especially sailing, where you can be very busy for hours and forget to drink and then go off watch and go crazy on the water or, worse yet, finish the race and hit the bar. I think this also has to do with lagging repletion and signaling, but I need to refresh my rusty physiology and think about it.
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Old 08-15-19, 03:55 PM
  #87  
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Easy trick, just be dehydrated all the time! I usually ride 6 days a week, and note that my one firm off-day (Mondays) I urinate more quantity, more often-- relatively speaking, anyway.

I did a warm-ish 50 miles this morning, and despite having taken in 200+ ounces so far today, I've used the restroom just twice since I got back from the ride.

I think I'm perpetually dehydrated.
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Old 08-15-19, 04:32 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha
I have often wondered about this phenomenon, which I get too, especially sailing, where you can be very busy for hours and forget to drink and then go off watch and go crazy on the water or, worse yet, finish the race and hit the bar. I think this also has to do with lagging repletion and signaling, but I need to refresh my rusty physiology and think about it.
I used to date a lady whose sense of thirst just didn't work at all. I don't know how that's possible, evening would roll around and she's realize the only thing she drank all day was a cup of coffee. Must have been pretty bad for her. This phenomenon where your body takes a while to turn the thirst down after you start replenishing ... I'll take it. 🙂
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Old 08-17-19, 07:40 PM
  #89  
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I ran out of water today, about 20 miles from the car. Expected to be able to get more along the way, I went through a little town with no store. Go figure.

I drank a gallon of iced electrolyte water on the drive home. And a 24 ounce iced latte.

I'd prefer not to do that again.
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Old 08-19-19, 12:26 AM
  #90  
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I've been using creatine starting the day before a long summer ride, based on the theory that it helps retain water. Might have helped Saturday. I carried two 24 oz bottles for a 50 mile group ride (60 by the time I got home) and ran out at 40, which was the first convenience store we came across. Other folks were also running out of water about the same time. I chugged a 16 oz can of iced coffee, refilled both bottles with whatever cold sports drinks they had in the store.

My legs were pretty dead by the time I got home but was otherwise okay. I'd ridden 70 miles in the heat a couple of days earlier, which was the main reason my legs nearly quit about 3 miles from home. After breaking off from the group I just slowed down to 10 mph and coasted every opportunity.

But it seemed like pushing my luck. I wasn't familiar with this group's training route and didn't realize it would be 40 miles to the first convenience store. Next ride I'll go back to my usual summer practice of taking a third bottle -- usually a collapsible Mylar pouch with frozen electrolyte mix. Fits my middle jersey pocket, and is thawed by the time the two frame mounted bottles are empty. I can see why one of the group wore a Camelbak backpack. He may have been the only one who wasn't out of water by that point.
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Old 08-19-19, 08:24 AM
  #91  
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Since this is the hydration/dehydration thread, should we talk about something that happens to us/goes along with hydration/dehydration in the steamy/more humid regions of the country? I'm talking about prickly heat. Should we talk about that here or start another thread?
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Old 08-19-19, 10:18 AM
  #92  
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I'm a water hog. I can drain a 3 liter camelbak on a 3 hour ride in NorCal. I carry one 20 oz water bottle with just water for pouring over if I need it.

I also suggest a low or no sugar electrolyte.
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Old 08-19-19, 12:09 PM
  #93  
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Consider juicing cucumber first thing in the AM. (16 ounces of juice) It hydrates well and provides energy to the liver

Another thing that I find is that when I drink water that HHO gas (Brown's Gas) has bubbled through it, the water does not leave my body for quite awhile even after having a litre of it. It seems to go right to the cells. Lots of good science on the beneficial effects of the hydrogen on the physiology in a variety of issues. It basically is food to the mitochondria, so it can make ATP, the energy of the cells. Breathing the HHO gas while it bubbles through the water and then drinking the infused water is our preferred method.

This is the unit we use: https://eagle-research.com/product/ac50/

Studies references : https://hydrotonix.com/hydrogen-blog...chanisms-of-mo
Molecular hydrogen studies | CHESS
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5731988/

Podcasts ; https://oneradionetwork.com/all-shows/george-wiseman-hydrogen-the-breath-of-god-august-15-2019/
https://oneradionetwork.com/all-shows/george-wiseman-hydrogen-for-health-in-your-water-and-breathing-the-gas-june-18-2019/
https://oneradionetwork.com/all-show...-june-18-2019/ (Podcast has a promo code for 10% discount.)

So far this method has completely cleared up a very dark spot headed for melanoma status. (3 to 4 weeks)
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Old 08-19-19, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by alanf

So far this method has completely cleared up a very dark spot headed for melanoma status. (3 to 4 weeks)
My money's on that monthly shower.
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Old 08-19-19, 12:32 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by seypat
I'm talking about prickly heat.
*shudder* Totally forgot about that. I used to get that when I was young. Super annoying.
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Old 08-19-19, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SCTinkering
I'm a water hog. I can drain a 3 liter camelbak on a 3 hour ride in NorCal. I carry one 20 oz water bottle with just water for pouring over if I need it.

I also suggest a low or no sugar electrolyte.
Define low. Sugar is in that stuff because some important K and NA conservation mechanisms are insulin-dependent.
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Old 08-19-19, 02:51 PM
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I put 5 nuun in a 3 liter camelbak 2 vitamin 3 non-caffinated sport. so 12 grams of carb for 3 liters while cranking 30-40 miles. those 12 grams likely get burned pretty fast.

I mix up a camelbak full the night before and let it fully fizz out. Extra belching.

12 grams of sugar over 3 hours isn't enough to trigger an obvious insulin response in me, but I'm also not fooling myself that I'm running on fat either.
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Old 08-19-19, 02:54 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by BengalCat
When it comes to riding in the "heat" all I can say is personally as I aged past 60 from there on my tolerance to heat while exercising began to significantly decrease. I'm 73 now and I have to really lower my efforts on longer climbs as the temperature rises.
Same age and same modality. Clearly more susceptible to humidity and higher heat indices, so I guess it's an aging phenomenon. I stay in Colorado for the summers now to escape.
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Old 08-19-19, 03:07 PM
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See a doctor. It seems you have a serious medical issue.
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Old 08-19-19, 09:30 PM
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Enduring the Heat

How to bicycle better in the heat.

Here is what Iíve learned from my 48+ years of riding in the heat. I live in Fort Worth, Texas. Iíve havenít lived here my whole life . . . . yet!

Texas summers can be pretty hot, for sure. Iíve always done well in the heat, and Iíve been asked whatís my secret. I think the recipe for doing well in the heat is, ready for this, ride in the heat. Seriously though, I think my secret is riding 1 to 1.5 hours during the hottest part of the day. Do it two or three times a week. Donít go longer than that during this ďtrainingĒ session. Pretty soon, your body will know exactly what to do when itís hot. Most folks can endure this length of ride. It's short enough that dehydration shouldnít be a factor. Iíve always commuted to work. I try to do it two or three days a week during the warm parts of the year. I am the worst cold weather wimp, I admit.

I recently had a good friend that bonked on a very hot weekend ride. I met him a few weeks later and he said he went to the doctor, and found out his pituitary gland wasnít working right, and got a little pill to take and everything was better. This spurred my interest, and I started searching out just what your body does, when you exercise in the heat, especially riding a bike. Here is what I learned.

I admit that I may have some of the details slightly off, but the general facts stand true (I think).

Your hypothalamus resides in your brain. One of its jobs is to regulate your core temperature. It controls your heart rate, your breathing, your perspiration, directs blood flow, and blood quantity, among other things. When youíre riding in the heat, it chimes in and starts doing its magic. It maintains your core temperature plus of minus one degree. That alone is amazing, considering the outdoor temperature can range from below freezing to over 100 degrees. It keeps your core temperature at 97.6 to 99.6 degrees. WOW.

When you ride you bike, you generate heat. More heat than when your sitting on the couch watching the Tour De France. When you start getting hot, your hypothalamus tells your heart to speed up. It then changes where your blood goes in your body. Normally about 20 percent of your blood volume resides right under your skin, and 80 percent goes to your muscles, and everywhere else. When your riding in the heat, 80 percent is under you skin, and 20 percent is left to work your muscles and everything else. This is why it's impossible to perform as well in the heat Ė you simply donít have enough blood to feed those bulging quads, and everything else.

Another thing that happens without our knowledge is, when it gets hot, the hypothalamus directs your body to manufacture more blood to help fill in the void left by all that blood thatís now under you skin.

It also directs the fluids in the cells of your body to go to the sweat cells and make your skin wet. Wet skin plus a little wind, equals cooling. In fact, as long as it's not too humid and you have ample fluid supply, your bodyís air conditioner works pretty well. All that hot blood right under that cool skin will release the heat of your body. The blood gets cooled off a bit and returns to the core, and voila, your core gets cooler.

Everything works great, most of the time. But sometimes certain conditions can make things run amuck. Here are some.

Humidity! Humidity is your enemy. When the air is humid, and it's hot outside, the water on your skin wonít evaporate. Without evaporation, you have little or no cooling. You overheat!

Dehydration. Of course, you have to be hydrated to have enough water supply in your cells to sweat. Being dehydrated removes the water from this wonderful evaporation air conditioner, and, you guessed it. You overheat!

Hereís a little about hydration and dehydration. During a strenuous ride in the heat, you can only absorb about half the volume of fluid that you perspire out. It doesn't matter how much you drink. So you will be somewhat dehydrated after the event. The last time you performed well on a long ride in the heat, it probably had as much to do with how well you hydrated the day before the event, as it did the day of the event. So start the day before saturating all your cells in your body with fluid. A few years ago, I went to the Tour of California, and we stayed in the hotel where a bunch of the pro riders were staying. It was a small town, so after the days race, the Pro riders were walking around town. We noticed that every single one of them had a water bottle or two, and were drinking constantly. They were re-hydrating for the next days race.

Your body is amazing. It does all this stuff without us having to think about it. If we had a set of instruments and knobs, that we had to keep set right, we would all die Ė just because we forgot to lower the landing gear, or something.

Lastly, what happens if you push through the pain of heat exhaustion? I can assure you - YOUR HYPOTHALAMUS WILL STOP YOU! It has enormous power. You will slow down and stop, no matter how much will power you have. Trouble is if you go too far, you may carry it with you forever. Once you've had full blown heat exhaustion or heat stroke, you will always be more susceptible to the heat.

hope this helps

Steve

Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC
I am a high sweating kind of guy, even though I am of average size (5'10" and 155 pounds). I have mostly dealt with this by avoiding heat of the day long rides. But there are lots of folks who do stuff like the Hotter N' Hell ride soon coming up. My question is 'how do people like me take something like that on'. FWIW, I have no intention of riding this event, but trying to do longer rides here in south-central NC is a similar issue.

For me I routinely sweat 4-5 pounds an hour in hot weather. I have run more carefully controlled experiments in the past, but today's (miserable) ride is a good example. It was only 90 minutes and no water as my brand new bike's water cages do not get here until tomorrow (just didn't bother taking the old cages off - only 90 minutes so). It was hard at the end but nothing surprising or anything that presented symptoms other than being more tired than the pace says I should have been.

When I got up this morning I weighed 156.5 pounds (immediately after a quick stop at the toilet). I drank a couple cups of coffee while doing some home admin work and then off on the ride. Nothing else went in or out, as I recall (OK - I did not hold my breath the whole time). When I got back I stripped and got back on the scales. I weighed 148.6 pounds. I seemed to have lost 8 pounds of water in 90 minutes. And the temp during the ride was between 86 and 90 degrees. This is consistent with 'better' experiments that I have done in the past.

From what I have read of water absorption rates, 1.5 pounds an hour is probably the best that you can do. So if I were to take on Hotter N' Hell at an easy 5.5 hour pace, I lose around 27 pounds of water. During this time I could absorb maybe 8-9 pounds of water, probably leaving me comatose if I actually did this.

How do folks like me deal with such rides?

Thanks.

dave
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